Why do people find Communism so threatening?

[amadeus]

ComradeDavo...you talk about democratizaiton of Communism, but that goes against every piece of Communist propaganda ever written.

What I don't get is why you're so big on "democracy" under a Communist government, but then you hail the Marxist rebels in Nepal as "freedom fighters."

Communism and democracy have never worked together -- unless it's a Cuban electoral ballot:

[_] - President Castro
[_] - President Fidel Castro

 

[Evie]

So much better than the neighboring florida form of voting ballot

Democrats -\ ______O
_________/__/_
Nader______/__\
______________\____O
Republicans_________O

Communism is an ideology. Trying to run a country based solely on an ideology and setting that ideology as a near-religion is imbecilistic. That goes for pure capitalism as well as communism, as well as nazism/fascism.

 

[ComradeDavo]

ComradeDavo...you talk about democratizaiton of Communism, but that goes against every piece of Communist propaganda ever written.

I have created (mostly by drawing) communist propaganda which promotes democracy.

What I don't get is why you're so big on "democracy" under a Communist government, but then you hail the Marxist rebels in Nepal as "freedom fighters."

I have never said that. You are generalising. How would you like it if I said all Americans wore white hoods and burn crosses? You wouldn't like it would you, just like I don't like being thrown in the same catorgary as Stalinists, Leninists and Maoist's (to name but a few).

 

[ApocalypseKurtz]

The millionares, corporations, and people in power in America are opposed to Communism because, if America were to become Communist, they would no longer have this wealth and power - it would be distributed to the people. God forbid!

 

[Damien]

Comrade Davo,

U were talkin about a system without elections;i think u should read my posts about Switzerland(the best country);there people have a counter-power(they can cast referendums).I think democracy should be led by associations;making the debates;the state distributing the papers(for/against and recycled) per post.
Political parties lower democracy to a fight of interests(industrial towns voting for the left-wing and the country-side n the bourgeoisie for the right-wing).My home town(Le Havre) stayed communist till the end of the Cold War and i agree with many things that Marx said(vs nationalism n landownership).However i think he's wrong on many things;especially when he holds everybody for insane;manipulated by capitalists n therefore forgetting democracy.Pure democratic life among the community is the key to people's happiness.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Originally posted by ComradeDavo
I disagree. I believe that only when the people are economically equal can they be democratically equal.

In capatilism people care only for themselves. Capatilism is all about indvidual gain. How can people possibly share power equally amongst everyone when they are constantly trying to out do each other and profit from each other?

What defines 'economically equal?' Should a man who spent 10 years in schooling and training to be a doctor REALLY get paid the same amount as a man who works at wal-mart? If a poor man, through hard work and effort, starts up a company that makes him a millionaire (Which HAS happened), he shouldnt reap the benefits of his hard work? THIS is why people dont like the idea of communism. People like the idea they are getting paid what they're worth and that, if they work hard, they can earn more for themselves and their families. It's a proverbial carrot in front of the mule. What is going to be used to motivate them with this taken away? Idealogy? Why would someone who can do a lousy job and still get assured work and good pay not continue to do a lousy job?

 

[ComradeDavo]

there is point arguing if you can't accept the fact that some people actually want to be doctors. for reason other than money.

not everyone is motivated by money.

 

[muppet]

Originally posted by D.Shaffer
...If a poor man, through hard work and effort, starts up a company that makes him a millionaire (Which HAS happened), he shouldnt reap the benefits of his hard work? THIS is why people dont like the idea of communism. People like the idea they are getting paid what they're worth and that, if they work hard, they can earn more for themselves and their families.

I hope people have better reasons than this for not liking communism.

Even in China's past, people that performed more important functions were 'paid' more. A poor man in today's China has opportunity (though less frequent than in America) to create a successful company and enjoy the riches of success.

China, to the best of my knowledge, is still communist.

Maybe people dislike 'socialism' because it is the great equalizer economically. I think most people dislike 'communism' because human communist history has tended to be totalitarian.

 

[ArmOrAttAk]

I find communism threatening.
First off let me point out that this conversation alone would lead to some of us being put to death in a communist country. Speaking my mind is one of the freedoms I utterly enjoy. I also like politicians to have checks on them. Communists have no checks, either you play ball, or else you get whisked off in the night. It's nice to have the freedom to choose what to do with my life, where I live, what work I will do. The incentive to do better and make more money if I wish to. Then there's my 5 children, which I had through basic human instinct. You don't have that liberty of procreation in communist China.
Communism just tries to supress basic human insticts. As I've said.. speaking your mind- you have to "learn" not to, procreation (China only) very sad here, making a better life for you and your children (HEY I make enough to buy bread, and some vodka--And my son will too!!--) what a wonderful existense.
I can go on but I've made my most stiking points. Communism in practice is nothing like the theory. Democracy is far from perfect but it's the best we've come up with so far.

 

[Evie]

Democratic government with socialist inspired economic safeguards (often refered to as social-democracy) is the best there's been so far. It helps gives everyone more of a chance.

To the people defending america and wondering why the early communists were so set against democracy and capitalism, remember that back in the 19th century the balance was a lot more of "Rich owners who get richer ; poor worker who get poorer, and no chance to anyone."

Free Health Care, Free Education, Minimum wages, Social Wellfare and the like really changed the face of society, and though some of the lack of balance remain, chances are much more equal now in the more social-democrats country without sacrificing freedom of speech, democracy or the ability to make money based on your task.

It's not perfect, but it works. Sure there are high taxes, but better high taxes than a large chunk of the population barely being able to etch a living despite having a job. Sure there's some inequality, but at least people have an encouragement to strike out on their own, and to work hard.

Capitalism is all about absolute freedom - including economic.
Communism is all about equality.
Social-Democracy is about sacrificing a part of each while retaining most of it so that the system actually works.

 

[tomberry]

Originally posted by ArmOrAttAk
I find communism threatening.
First off let me point out that this conversation alone would lead to some of us being put to death in a communist country. Speaking my mind is one of the freedoms I utterly enjoy. I also like politicians to have checks on them. Communists have no checks, either you play ball, or else you get whisked off in the night. It's nice to have the freedom to choose what to do with my life, where I live, what work I will do. The incentive to do better and make more money if I wish to. Then there's my 5 children, which I had through basic human instinct. You don't have that liberty of procreation in communist China.
Communism just tries to supress basic human insticts. As I've said.. speaking your mind- you have to "learn" not to, procreation (China only) very sad here, making a better life for you and your children (HEY I make enough to buy bread, and some vodka--And my son will too!!--) what a wonderful existense.
I can go on but I've made my most stiking points. Communism in practice is nothing like the theory. Democracy is far from perfect but it's the best we've come up with so far.

All I read here is thing against totalitarism not communism. China natality policy exist because the country is overcrowded, not because it is communism. Of course many communism ended up being dictatorship. There is a reason for that. Take Cuba for example. If Castro has accepted free speech, free organization, etc, the revolution would have lasted 1 or 2 years like Batista expected. If tomorow the USA is treatened and must suppress all freedom to conduct a research I'm sure msharpe, you or many one here won't be against so respect that if another country do the same.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Originally posted by ComradeDavo
there is point arguing if you can't accept the fact that some people actually want to be doctors. for reason other than money.

not everyone is motivated by money.

THat's just it. Not everybody is motivated by money. But I'd guarantee that most of them ARE. What about those who control where the wealth goes? How do you control who gets those positions? How do you ensure only the honest get a position of power? When you rely on idealism to keep your government honest, you end up with problems because for every idealist, there will be at LEAST one oppurtunist who will GLADLY work the system over for his own favor.

 

[muppet]

Originally posted by ArmOrAttAk
I find communism threatening.

Neither I, nor anyone else, can pacify another's fear of a ghost.

First off let me point out that this conversation alone would lead to some of us being put to death in a communist country.
Which communist country would this be? I've said worse in a communist country.

Speaking my mind is one of the freedoms I utterly enjoy. I also like politicians to have checks on them. Communists have no checks, either you play ball, or else you get whisked off in the night.
I suppose the USA is a communist country. Professors at MIT not permitted to speak their minds regarding NMD. Vietnam protesters blacklisted. Cambodian protesters shot to death.

It's nice to have the freedom to choose what to do with my life, where I live, what work I will do. The incentive to do better and make more money if I wish to.
This assumes incorrectly that a citizen in China does not have the 'right' to work where and when he chooses. Or that he will not get paid more and be promoted for quality. Or that he is not permitted to start a business.

Then there's my 5 children, which I had through basic human instinct. You don't have that liberty of procreation in communist China.
This assumes incorrectly that the '1 child policy' is literally what its title suggests. The '1 child policy' enforcement really means that a family not economically capable of supporting children shall be permitted one 'state supported' child. You can have as many as you want so long as YOU can support them.

I can go on but I've made my most stiking points.
Please go on...

Communism in practice is nothing like the theory. Democracy is far from perfect but it's the best we've come up with so far.
Maybe better to say:
Totalitarianism, in practice is exactly like theory - it sucks.
Democracy, is nothing like theory - it isn't quite paradise.

Communism, in practice is close to theory - most suffer communally.
Capitalism, in practice is close to theory - the few suffer less, the mass suffer more.

 

[Mîtiu Ioan]

Originally posted by muppet
Then there's my 5 children, which I had through basic human instinct. You don't have that liberty of procreation in communist China.
This assumes incorrectly that the '1 child policy' is literally what its title suggests. The '1 child policy' enforcement really means that a family not economically capable of supporting children shall be permitted one 'state supported' child. You can have as many as you want so long as YOU can support them.

In fact this seems for me a question of responsability. Evan that involve a violation of a basic human-right today it clearly will have better effect tommorow

First off let me point out that this conversation alone would lead to some of us being put to death in a communist country.
Which communist country would this be? I've said worse in a communist country

During 1950's in Romania many people was imprisoned for something like this ! And also in U.R.S.S. !!
And also - there was almost impossible to have your own buisness in Eastern Europe during 1950-1989 !

Communism, in practice is close to theory - most suffer communally.
Capitalism, in practice is close to theory - the few suffer less, the mass suffer more.

He he ... that's nice !!

Regards

 

[ArmOrAttAk]

The countries that would have you dead for disenting political views: U.S.S.R maybe you need a refresher course in the ways Lenin and the gang handled this, Also: China- Tianamin Sq. will be my example.
As far as these professors at MIT, and Cambodian protestors: I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Assuming Chinamen have all the personal freedoms that I enjoy, where to live, work is wrong? Maybe you're thinking this is a Honk Kong thread, it isn't. People are willing to risk their lives and their families lives to sneak out of that country. I can go live and work in GB if I want, without my govt. holding my family hostage and taking steps to prevent my leaving.
About this 1 child policy -being able to have more? I've never heard of this, I could be wrong but until I see evidence to the contrary I'll go on believing it's 1.
Go on: ok
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
This is what Democracy stands for.
All I've ever seen Communists do is take away these basic human rights. I see you quoted most of my post but you missed one partHEY I make enough to buy bread, and some vodka--And my son will too!!--) what a wonderful existense.
For all of you who think communism is great: I invite you to go live where it's in place. Great thing you can go, we don't build walls around here to keep the people in. You're just big hipocrites praising communism from your democratic abode. GO LIVE THERE I'm sure the communists govts. of the world will accept you with open arms.
No, it's better the way I said it.
Communism in practice is nothing like the theory.
In theory it works for the whole populace building a better place. In practice it supresses the populace nothing more.

 

[Mîtiu Ioan]

Originally posted by ArmOrAttAk
Communism in practice is nothing like the theory.

I don't know if in 1950's Romania was a communist country but those decade was from far the devastating in my country history !! So I'm sick of "communism" ...

Anyway - people whine so much about fascism but here is a sad fact : The Iron Guard killed in 1930's 4 ministers and the commies killed in 1950's ALL the ex-ministers of the country who wasn't clever enough to run out of border !!

Regards

 

[ComradeDavo]

Democracy is where the people equally share the power.

Communsim is where the people equally share the wealth.

I believe these two to compliment quite nicely.

 

[Switch625]

Originally posted by ComradeDavo
Democracy is where the people equally share the power.

Communsim is where the people equally share the wealth.

I believe these two to compliment quite nicely.

IF pure democracy or pure communism were possible, you might be right. Neither are. Pure democracy is mob rule. Pure communism is anarchy. Neither state is stable or desirable.

 

[muppet]

Originally posted by ArmOrAttAk

The countries that would have you dead for disenting political views: U.S.S.R maybe you need a refresher course in the ways Lenin and the gang handled this, Also: China- Tianamin Sq. will be my example.
The former USSR and China are both totalitarian.
Neither 'practiced' communism, though both 'claimed' to be communist.

As far as these professors at MIT, and Cambodian protestors: I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Maybe you need a refresher course in both American history and current affairs.

Assuming Chinamen have all the personal freedoms that I enjoy, where to live, work is wrong? Maybe you're thinking this is a Honk Kong thread, it isn't. People are willing to risk their lives and their families lives to sneak out of that country.
The desire to leave China has more to do with economic circumstances and life in a totalitarian state.

I can go live and work in GB if I want, without my govt. holding my family hostage and taking steps to prevent my leaving.
I do not doubt your country would not hinder your departure.
I have concerns the UK may not welcome your arrival.

China has no problem with the departure of its citizens.
The US has a problem with the arrival of 'illegal' Chinese immigrants.
Maybe the US could permit 'legal' immigration of these poor people so they no longer have to risk their lives?

About this 1 child policy -being able to have more? I've never heard of this, I could be wrong but until I see evidence to the contrary I'll go on believing it's 1.
I have seen it with my own eyes. When I asked, the explanation was simply, "We can afford to have children, so we are permited."
It makes sense to me. Why bankrupt the state when a family can not afford to feed its own children?

Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
This is what Democracy stands for.
I have never read this definition anywhere. I could be wrong but until I see evidence to the contrary I won't believe it.

All I've ever seen Communists do is take away these basic human rights. I see you quoted most of my post but you missed one partHEY I make enough to buy bread, and some vodka--And my son will too!!--) what a wonderful existense.
It was not missed. Many in the pretend to be 'communist' countries are also economically wealthy, and their sons will be as well. It is just that a 'smaller' percentage of them enjoy a 'greater' percentage of the country's wealth. In a manner of speaking, they are more capitalistic than we are.

For all of you who think communism is great: I invite you to go live where it's in place.
As suggested earlier. There is no such thing as a communist state in the world we live in. They are totalitarian states, claiming to be communist and have adopted the communist lingo.
This is an impossible invitation to accept. One can not find a communist state in the world today.

Great thing you can go, we don't build walls around here to keep the people in.
Emmigration is not nearly as great an obstacle as immigration.

You're just big hipocrites praising communism from your democratic abode. GO LIVE THERE I'm sure the communists govts. of the world will accept you with open arms.
I am not a hypocrite. I have a unique perspective.

No, it's better the way I said it.
Communism in practice is nothing like the theory.
In theory it works for the whole populace building a better place. In practice it supresses the populace nothing more.
You are describing a totalitarian state claiming to exercise communist ideology.

The cold war is suppose to be over. Cold war propoganda should be dropped as well.
WE should stop criticizing communism.
THEY should stop claiming to be communist.

 

[muppet]

Originally posted by Mîtiu Ioan
During 1950's in Romania many people was imprisoned for something like this ! And also in U.R.S.S. !!
And also - there was almost impossible to have your own buisness in Eastern Europe during 1950-1989 !

That sounds pretty horrible. What is Romania like today? Is it still a 'communist' state?