Why Do People With No Frame of Reference Give An Opinion?

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Corn is pretty close to how I see this topic.

I know where Sloww is coming from, I often have to deal with it while moderating.

A good example is that there are several of us who are ex military or current military personell (Sloww and me, Pale horse, Joespanial and several others) who have to listen to kids try to tell us how military ops are carried out!

It is infuriating to say the least.

But, people will talk, so what can you do? It's not as bad here as in other boards, but it exists.

 

[joespaniel]

Thanks Slowwhand, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Why should we get frustrated here, a place to relax. I have decided to roll with it and just have fun with them.

The little "fighter pilot" has developed an attitude lately too. I have him in my sights...

-time!

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Corn is pretty close to how I see this topic.

I know where Sloww is coming from, I often have to deal with it while moderating.

A good example is that there are several of us who are ex military or current military personell (Sloww and me, Pale horse, Joespanial and several others) who have to listen to kids try to tell us how military ops are carried out!

It is infuriating to say the least.

But, people will talk, so what can you do? It's not as bad here as in other boards, but it exists.

Well you could simply ban every person that expresses a view that opposses your own.

You're usually more than happy to do that to anybody that isn't a flag waving American patriot. (and if they aren't banned then they are at least viciously verbally attacked by the Americans that believe "feedom" applies only when your opinion of the US is favourable.

Wonder why the majority of non Americans no longer post in Off topic? It's AITCOTU syndrome. (America Is The Center Of The Universe) People became sick of listening to American propoganda day in and day out.

 

[andycapp]

People with no frame of reference give opinions because the concept that they have no frame of reference is out side their frame of reference and therefore they don't understand that the opinion they gave is without a frame of reference because such a concept is outside their frame of reference and so they give an opinion - simple really.

Just a minute, maybe I've just given an opinion that is outside my frame of reference, however, if my opinion is without a frame of reference and the idea that it is outside my frame of reference is outside my frame of reference - what then?

In my opinion we've all been framed! Of course if it can be shown that my opinion has no frame of reference....err.... I'll withdraw such a reference and get out of the frame - I think? :crazyeyes

 

[TrailblazingScot]

I never give opinions about...oh wait!


As a former debator...have represented my University and won at school THE "Speakers Cup" -no mean achievement, as they never had a "Speakers Cup" (only one for best debator) but invented one in honour of some of the floor debates that raged!

ANYWAY enough boasting, but the relevance to this topic is that:

Debators virtually NEVER have a frame of reference...and we very often debate on the opposition to things we believe in. Since the style of debating competitions is to favour open motions (where you aren't informed beforehand of the motion) you can sometimes be arguing on subjects you have never thought about before and in which you may be VERY indifferent.

Personnally I have always wished to run a proposition that trys to remove open motions from debating as they are not conducive to producing a real-life arguement:

In the real world you'd hope that people engaging in an arguement are well informed or at least have experienced first-hand some of the relevant issues (e.g living in Kabul at present gives a pretty informed opinion as to whether the Americans are targetting civilians) and thus have that "frame of reference"
...alternatively the person involved is a scholar or has researched the arguement or has experience of the issue/event/etc. On this forum I would like to see some examples of where you think people are posting with no frame of reference...and then see if they can provide one, you may be surprise at how often people can justify their involvement...especially in this day and age when people can access information about anything rather easily...


Though I do have to question how when my friend last Saturday won the Durham University debating intervarsity (he stayed with me over the weekend...he is Cambridge University Union President and debated in the "Cambridge B" team) won the debate after proposing that: <in essence the proposition was>

To legalise the act of manhood of a tribe in Papua New Guinea...in this act a boy to become a "man" has to drink the semen of an older tribesman...this is illegal at present for pretty obvious reasons.

They won the debate (I never saw it, but the opposition must have blowed if you'll excuse the pun)...my point IS obvious...where was my friend and his debating partners FRAME OF REFERENCE

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Where was this chaps FRAME OF REFERENCE:

QUOTE]Originally posted by SlowwHand

"A U.S.A.F. pilot could outfly any other military member from anywhere.
No matter what the choice of weapons."

Do we have jousting competitions involving F-15s...it would be fun.

 

[Dell19]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
Where was this chaps FRAME OF REFERENCE:

QUOTE]Originally posted by SlowwHand

"A U.S.A.F. pilot could outfly any other military member from anywhere.
No matter what the choice of weapons."

Do we have jousting competitions involving F-15s...it would be fun.

They do it in testing, but with lasers instead of actuall weapons...

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by RedWolf
Well you could simply ban every person that expresses a view that opposses your own.

Ridiculous.

You're usually more than happy to do that to anybody that isn't a flag waving American patriot. (and if they aren't banned then they are at least viciously verbally attacked by the Americans that believe "feedom" applies only when your opinion of the US is favourable.

More nonsense.
No one said, for one, this is a "free speach' board.
This is a privatley owened web site, not a public forum.
In other words, we make the rules, and we are fair with them.
If someone started posting for example "Finland is evil" or some such drival, they would be banned just as quick as the anti-USA crowd.
In fact, I banned a poster for posting "Islam is evil" just a few weeks ago.
From your tone, your obviously among those who wish to get their jollies off USA mocking.
To damn bad, you won't get away with it here.
When you see americans viciously, miglignetly, and unfactually attacking other countries here (And I NEVER permit that either), come see me.
If you wish to just shoot your mouth off, feel free to head to apolyton.
They will welcome your USA bashing whole-hartedly.
Here, ISN'T going to happen again.
A bunch of kids had their fun when the attack went off.
Long before (and you should know this, you have been here as long as I) we NEVER allowed that cat fighting, going back to a thread called "Bomb USA" or NY, can't remember which, started by the late and unlamented Mig 21.

Wonder why the majority of non Americans no longer post in Off topic? [/qb]

Quite frankly, I don't care.

It's AITCOTU syndrome. (America Is The Center Of The Universe) People became sick of listening to American propoganda day in and day out.

Ha Ha, another super ignorence post by a non USA citizen.
Take away your ability to hurt others through flaming and mistruths and you start with the foolishness.
American propaganda!!HAHAHAHAHAHA
You should put yourself up for funniest poster!:crazyeyes

Take a look at the topics and who's posting in them.
Funny, most seem to be non-USA citizens, unless the USA took over Canada, Holland, Britain, Australia, Singapore....the list is endless.

You see, in point of fact, it is you sir, who lack vision. I don't mind intelligaent conversation and debate (if you look, the Bush thread is still there, as are some of the more childish ones, like the "Carpet Bombing" thread).

Your just angry I won't allow the USA sucks crap.
Too bad.
Feel free to leave if it doesn't suit you.
We want people to be comfortible in a friendly atmosphere.
If your looking for a fight, or to goad Americans, look elsewhere, because you won't find it here.

And a PS: This was feedback on your part, so next time, put it there, not here.

 

[ChrTh]

Relevant Quote:
Never argue with an idiot. He'll* bring you down to his level, and then beat you with experience.


*Use of male pronouns for ease of read. Not suggesting women can't be idiots.

 

[Kefka]

Originally posted by ChrTh
Relevant Quote:
Never argue with an idiot. He'll* bring you down to his level, and then beat you with experience.


*Use of male pronouns for ease of read. Not suggesting women can't be idiots.

Thats exactly right you can't argue with stupidity :crazyeyes all you can do is yell louder (the screaming smilie is gone ) and out stupify him.

 

[SlowwHand]

What brought the subject to mind were all the terrorist threads,
and how it should be handled.

"Why, we ought to ...".
We? You got a mouse in your damn pocket?
And mostly from people never in the service.
Don't be going and saying "We" ought to send ground troops in mass, as a for instance.
Especially if "we" ain't going anywhere.

That's just an example though.

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
What brought the subject to mind were all the terrorist threads,
and how it should be handled.

"Why, we ought to ...".
We? You got a mouse in your damn pocket?
And mostly from people never in the service.
Don't be going and saying "We" ought to send ground troops in mass, as a for instance.
Especially if "we" ain't going anywhere.

That's just an example though.

I'm not trying to fight with anybody with this post.

I just wanted to mention that politicians also say "WE" when sending young men off to die in war, Yet they themselves very seldom end up going anywhere.


"We were the children of the 1950's and John F. kennedy's young stalwarts of the 1960s. He told the world that Americans would 'pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship' in the defense of freedom. We were the down payment on that costly contract, but the man who signed it was not there when we fulfilled his promise. John F. Kennedy waited for us on a hill n Arlington National Cemetary, and in time we came by the thousands to fill those slopes with our white marble markers and to ask on the murmur of the wind if that truly was the future he had envisioned for us"

-We Were Soldiers Once... And Young
Lt. Gen. Harold G Moore (ret) and
Joseph L. Galloway

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Kennedy spent as Tom Lehrer put it "what made it possible to spend billions of your tax dollars to put some clown on the moon? Good ole' American know how, provided by good ole' Americans like Dr Werner Von Braun..."

I agree with you Sloww that some of the opinions being voiced in the "I don't think we should bomb Afghanistan anymore" thread were...let me see, INSPIRED!