Why does the AI treat all city states as barbarians?

[BackseatTyrant]

I'm watching a Quill18 stream (too poor to afford any machine that can actually run the game), and I am just astonished at how hyper-aggressive the AI is against any and all independent powers. Has anybody been able to figure out what the motivations are? Is there some military bonus you get from razing those villages?

 

[UWHabs]

You do get a fairly big bonus for dispersing them. A bunch of XP on your commanders, and you get a kick of whatever resource the CS provides (science/culture/gold for those types, or production for military ones). If you're not allying them, better to be the one to kill them before someone else allies them.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

You do get a fairly big bonus for dispersing them. A bunch of XP on your commanders, and you get a kick of whatever resource the CS provides (science/culture/gold for those types, or production for military ones). If you're not allying them, better to be the one to kill them before someone else allies them.

Except the AI seem to go out of their way to eradicate even the city states that spawned next to the human player, so I'm very doubtful they do it because they've been attacked

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

You get a lump sum of yields based on the type (Scientific yields Science, Military yields Production, etc.), but that number is always far less than what you could reap from becoming their suzerain.

In the Modern Age I think you get something like 100 Science for dispersing a Scientific IP. Instead, you could spend some Influence, wait, and then potentially get hundreds of Science with the Free Tech bonus. (you might protest that Influence is scarce, but so long as Hub Towns grant +2 Influence per connection, I will have to disagree )

The AI's unpredictable dispersal sprees are one of the few things holding back city-state centered play.

 

[user746383]

I've seen them disperse city states they are befriending, so not sure what exactly is driving their behaviour.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

I've seen them disperse city states they are befriending, so not sure what exactly is driving their behaviour.

My guess is that independent powers were at first coded to be "just" barbarians, but when they got updated to also be city-states, this was a part of the AI behaviour that retained all the old behaviour.

I also wonder if this is also part of the forward-settling tendencies, as in "This tribe neighbouring my enemy could be mine, so let's glass those savages and build a Disneyland on top of it!"

 

[Siptah]

I assume there is some kind of power calculation going on in wich the AI always 'concludes' that a specific IP is weak (and likely the easiest target on the map) and therefore decides to go for it.

I think that, currently, the diplomatic penalty for attacking an IP that you are befriending is way too low as well. If this would be higher (and factored into the calculation), maybe the AI would decide differently.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

I assume there is some kind of power calculation going on in wich the AI always 'concludes' that a specific IP is weak (and likely the easiest target on the map) and therefore decides to go for it.

I think that, currently, the diplomatic penalty for attacking an IP that you are befriending is way too low as well. If this would be higher (and factored into the calculation), maybe the AI would decide differently.

From my own personal experiences, that's how the AI has operated throughout the entire series. It felt to me agendas were introduced in Civ 6 to mitigate that, or at least make them more understandable, but even that has still played second fiddle to "Your army is weak and you have what I want. Thou shalt be exterminated!"

 

[aelf]

I've seen the AI not disperse an IP they are standing on because they're befriending it. I think it depends on the personality of the AI. Some AI personalities like Augustus are *******s and will march across half the map to disperse an IP you are befriending.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I haven't seen AI dispersing independents they are befriending (I don't use any mods, btw.). If they do it, that's a bug. Other than that, independents are fair game. You clear space, you get some yields, commanders get good experience and, most importantly, you don't let others befriend those independents. Plus there are some quests asking to do it (I believe at least Egyptian and Roman quests have this option).

 

[Krikkit1]

Kill:
Lump Sum, Relationship Boost, Influence
Cost…some unit turns

Befriend:
ongoing benefit…unless someone else gets it first or kills them first
Cost: bunch of rare influence

Solutions:
1. make IPs harder to kill (have them keep defensive units…so at least you lose some units to get that lump sum)
2. Give a benefit to befriending an IP but not becoming Suzerein (+X yields per turn as long as you are not at war with the Suzerein)
3. allow liberating CS

 

[BackseatTyrant]

wait, does razing IPs give relationship boosts?

 

[Sekou]

The ability to deter attacks on city states that you are trying to woo with Influence seems like something that is lacking atm. Just an option from a message like "hey, So-n-So is shooting at Roskilde. Wanna give up 300 Influence (or whatever) to make them stop?"

 

[Pfeffersack]

I share the overall impression of the AI being very aggressive to them...I can understand this general approach to an extend of they are hostile and/or nearby, but attacking a friendly state far away (which is perhaps even in the process of being befriended by someone) should be character dependant. Well anyway...I have learned my lesson and will in future keep my troops closeby to any CS I'm trying to court...and then take an AI attack as invitation to declare on them for roleplay reasons

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

wait, does razing IPs give relationship boosts?

No, but dispersing one that a Leader is befriending will degrade your relationship with them (only slightly).

 

[sixty4half]

I haven't seen AI dispersing independents they are befriending (I don't use any mods, btw.)

I've seen it twice.

wait, does razing IPs give relationship boosts?

It can if the IP is a hostile IP and nobody is befriending it. It also may require that the IP is attacking someone to get the relationship bonus; I'm not sure.


I've also seen AI wipe out a IPs army only to stand on its camp and do nothing. I had 3 turns till the befriend action and only 2 ships in the area so I couldn't prevent them from taking it but they never dispersed it.

 

[MutilationWave]

Also if you disperse a hostile one anywhere near another civ, I think it gives a 10 point boost to all civ relations who know you did it. Not sure how they calculate who knows about it.

 

[user746383]

I think at this point when it comes to the design nobody really knows what's a bug or not, the designers are pretty silent on it and the civiliopedia doesn't really support any particular interpretation.