Why include Portugal???

[fsume93]

Ok, Enlighten me. Why should Portugal be included as a Civ in Civ 3? This IS NOT intended to be a flame, I would just like to know what made Portugal a great civilization/culture worthy of inclusion in this game.

What did they do above and beyond their neighbor Spain? Here in the year 2000 they are grossly overshadowed by Spain. The only lasting presence of Portuguese exploration and conquest is Brazil (speaks Portuguese), correct? All of South and Central America with the exception of Brazil is Spanish speaking due to Spain exploring and conquering them.

It was the Spanish Armada that was so great at one time, not the Portuguese. Did they have a great Navy at one time? If so, what did it accomplish?

I know that they had some well know explorers. Can anyone name them and what they did for me? Also, who financed all these explorers? Was it Portugal or other Euro countries?

What Cultural greatness has Portugal added to the world?

What militarily signifigant achievements or technologies has Portugal made/discovered?

I honestly, in my skewed American education, can not remember any Portuguese contribution to the world other than explorer XXX finding location ZZZ.

Not to say that they werent important discoveries, at the time they were VERY important. But what has Portugal provided the world OVER TIME? My view currently is that if Portugal were included in Civ 3 or a later expansion pack that they would have their special unit at the very beginning of the game (like the Zulu) and be one of the weaker Civs.

Thanks for your time,

 

[SkidiWili]

I'll answer the question with a question. Why not add the Portugal as a civ to Civ III? If someone has intrest, time and skill to do it, why not then do it? Why someone shouldn't add The Holy Empire of The Underground Midgets if he wants to? In fact adding a new civ is relativily easy, only the leader animations are hard to create, and even then they might just use still pictures.
Why?
Why not?

 

[Blackadder]

It may be called the Spanish Amarda but Portugal also had many ships within it!

I have given you a list in 'where are Turks'. And that is only during the times of exploration.

However I never learn any of this in my skewed English education, only through books, video games and television channels, so I won't fault you.

 

[Kiki]

In terms of civilizations I'd think Portugal is the same thing as Spain is. Just like let's say the Spartans are the same as the Greeks, but they fit under Greeks.

 

[Anielewicz]

Hey Portugal was much more powerful than the US before World War I!

 

[Sman]

I really didn't understand your question... r u trying to find a reason why u wanna make portugal??? or u just gone crazy from playig to much civIII and u think portugal is included??

 

[fsume93]

Anielewicz,

...And in 1939 Poland had the world's greatest Cavalry...

 

[Marla_Singer]

hmm... it's not that hard to find great portuguese explorers common ! Magellan, Vasco de Gamma !

Portugal has definitly been a great influent power. I don't think we can say it's bigger or no than Spain. But I don't understand, if you don't want to make the Portugal, don't make it, do you have pressure or what?

About Africa for example, I think Ethiopia is a lot more accurate than Zululand for example. Do you think iroquois is really a civilization that had more impact on History than the Incans?
Well, the two main civilization that has been always forgotten by Sid Meier are the Turks and the Arabs. The world most influent civilization in the Middle Age was by far the arab civilization, and that scientifically, culturally and politically. Arabs invented medicine !!

 

[tetley]

If we have a Portuguese civ then we should give them the Man of War. Portuguese Man of War...very easy to remember.

And then give the English the Tommy--unique Infantry, 8/10/1. If you could draft Tommies, the English would be a rocking civ, expansionist or no expansionist.

 

[canadaDude]

The Portuguese should have definitely been included. Maybe not on their own but combined with the Spanairds as the Iberians(maybe that isn't politically correct but these are bacically the same ethnic group as Portuguese is a Spanish dialect derived from Galicia). I'd much rather play with their civ than say the Zulus.
Here are my reasons:
They where the first Europeans to explore the world, they where also the first Globilizers. Essentially they were to the Oceans what The US is to Space exploration.
Portuguese explorers include Ferdinand Megellan(who defected to Spain), Bartholemew Dias( first to circumnavigate Africa), Vasco da Gama(successfully reached India), they also were the first euro-thrash to reach china(not including Marco Polo) and Japan(Imagine Conquistadors versus Samurai). Columbus learned to sail in Lisbon and inherited many maps. They also set up several cities in Morrocco namely Casablanca and Ceuta(now a spanish enclave). They Invented the Caravel which made it possible to reach America. Brazil is the largest colony it founded and now has around 180 million people (70 million europeans) but they also controlled parts of India, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Mozambique, Angola, Guinea and attempted to Christianize Japan. Many Portuguese words are still used in Japan. The country was Annexed by King Phillip II of Spain in 1580 when their was no heir to the throne. 8 years later the doomed "Spanish"(more like Iberian armada attempted to invade england). Basically, the combined empire of Spain and Portugal were easily the most powerful country on earth in 1580. Combined territories thereafter included South and Central America, parts of the US(California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Florida) Santa Monica and Santa Clara were cities founded by Portuguese settlers, their descendents are still there, parts of Europe included Holland, Southern Italy, and the Spanish Marsh(Now part of France), Asian and African colonies where mentioned earlier. They may have visited Australia before the British, they visited hawaii and the Real Brothers mapped large areas of Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and some of the eastern United States. John Cabot (Italian) who "discovered" Newfoundland for England also reported seing Basque and Portuguese Fishermen off the coast of Canada on his first landing.

And the most important reason for including the Portuguese- they along with the Spaniards Forced Islam to retreat from Western Europe. The Portuguese also Destroyed Islamic Power in India and prevented the Arabs and turks from conquering the world by taking controll of the straits of Gibraltar which includes the morroccan side and the strait of Hormuz(another Portuguese explorer) in Iran. Portuguese Fortresses can still be seen dotted along the coasts of Yemen, Bahrain, and Iran.

One more Beef...where the Hell is the Great Canadian Civ EH?

We don't need no stinking guns EH! We've got Hockey Sticks!!

GO LEAFS GO!!

 

[Sh3kel]

About Africa for example, I think Ethiopia is a lot more accurate than Zululand for example. Do you think iroquois is really a civilization that had more impact on History than the Incans?
Well, the two main civilization that has been always forgotten by Sid Meier are the Turks and the Arabs. The world most influent civilization in the Middle Age was by far the arab civilization, and that scientifically, culturally and politically. Arabs invented medicine !!

All this is well and valid, but exactly WHERE are the jews? The People of Israel invented monottheism! We may not have been concentrated in one large geographical area, like other civs included in Civ3, however I do find it puzzling that the inventors of modern religion and possibly the greatest contributors to the world's economy (Where would banking be today without the jews to perfect it during the middle ages?) and literacy (all jewish children must be taught to read in order to be able to read the sacred book of the Torah, which means that even in dark age europe, when only a fraction of a fraction of the rich people knew how to read, the majority of the Jewish people were literate) and sanitation (jewish Halacha dictates that one must bathe at least once in a while, dont remember exactly when, i think a week, in a Mikve, effictively being a form of early sanitation)!

 

[RomanLegion]

The game would be much more interesting with the Portuguese in it. As far as I know they did some pretty serious butt kicking in their hey day. They also fought in some pretty important wars including the War of Spanish succession, the War of Oranges, The Boer War on England's side, Peninsular War against Napolean and Spain, the Reconquest of Iberia against the moors, WWI, as well as a bunch of wars in their colonies in Africa up till 1975. They were strong enough to have the English sign an eternal alliance with them in the 1300's which still exsists today, and have a Papal Bull issued by the Pope which split the undiscovered world between Spain and Portugal(Not that the British, French, and Dutch respected it).
As for what they have done for you Fsume...they were the first European Nation to recognize America's Independance from Britain.

I would love to see the Spanish, Dutch and the Celts in this game too..along with the Turks. I don't know about the Jews though...they did some pretty important stuff but i think that putting them in the same group as the babylonians and other semites is sufficient.

 

[preste joao]

I have to inform you, that without Portuguese there wouldn't have been colonialism. The Portuguese invented that. OK, the Spanish founded American continent, but they couldn't have been able to do so without Portuguese maritime inventions. My opinion is that without Portugal the American continent would still be ruled by Aztecs and Incas. I really can't understand why the Iroquois are there. Incas would have been much better alternative. Zulus have been a great bug of civilization all over its history. They have never been so strong than they are in Civs. In Africa, better alternatives to the Zulus' position would have been, to mention few, Ethiopia, Mali, or Ghana. The Babylonians would have been replaced by Arabs. The Turks should be included. It's no sense that there are two civilizations from British isles, Celts and the English. Celts shouldn't be there. I think Persians are very util civilization. That's because there must be something in Central Asia, between Babylonians and Indians. The Jews would be a good add, however the problem is, while playing with Realistic Nations Starting Positions, that the Jews never conquered large areas, just the area of Israel. But they could be very util when blocking the Eurasia away from African conquerers. If somebody makes a patch which includes the Portuguese, I'll be very glad.

 

[elfstorm]

Portugal was once a great colonial power - hence why they should probably be in the game.

But Spain, Holland and Turkey should all be before them in the queue.

For much of it's existance Spain ruled Portugal (as in the King of Spain was King of Portugal. Not in the modern military invasion and occupation of the place). So perhaps them and spain sohlud be combined.

Anyway, they are far more deserving of a place than the Iroqiuisiusis (however it's spelt) or the Zulu's. They are just barbarian tribes (like the ones who pop up and attack you.)

Lord knows how they justified their places ahead of others.

 

[zeeter]

I am flabbergasted that the subject of Portugal in Civ3 is still polluting the cyberwaves. Look. Its a teeny-tiny country that nobody would ever think about if not for its exclusion in Civ3. Hence, the exclusion. While we're at it, lets add Luxemborg, Belgium, and Siam. Similarly meaningless countries (although I think that the Hague is in one of those countries).
This is an American game. No Americans want to play the Portugese. Our visions of portugese are the guys who pick peaches in Northern Cal for pennies on the bucket. Whats the unique unit going to be? A guy on a ladder throwing apples at your spearmen?
Without the Portugese the British still would have controlled north america and the Spanish south. Its like this. The portugese came over here and started doing stuff, then the Spanish and British said to them - "Ok, we've got it now." and the portugese influence on america was over.
There is no other time in human history that I can think of anything that the Portugese did.
Can we leave it alone now? No to Portugal!

 

[Big Bad Abe]

I AGREE totally with Zeeter