Why is Civ 4 so difficult??

Not sure if there is a criticism here or not, but always keep in mind that IV is a different game. We're really comparing apples and oranges. There's very little that translate from IV to V and vice versa, except at the meta 4X level. Movement in V is very different and basically faster than IV(well, in the sense of individual unit movement), but there are reasons for that in both games. Regardless, rivers do slow movement in IV but the affect is realized differently and only really noticeable when roads are in place. 2 moves units like mounted and workers/settlers will be slowed. Since melee units only move 1 tpt, you do not see difference until they move on roads, since they only move 1 tile anyway. Like V (engineering), IV has a tech (construction) that enables bridge building that removes this obstacle.
There was no criticism there, he was just asking how it was in Civ 5. Besides, I love Civ 4. How can you ever forget your first Civ game? Many options to get what you want. There's just some stuff I don't like like extremely huge stacks. I hope a successor to Civ 4 goes with limited stacking.

AIs have different coding as to their willingness to concede or capitulate. Other factors are involved as well including relative power. Bit surprising that Qin did not fall until you wiped him, but there may be factors we are not aware of. Like did you peace out or ceasefire with him at any point. Any peace will reset war success.

Anyway, link to a very good article here that took the code dive and translated it into a readable format to better understand AI leader behavior:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/
Since he declared war on me because I went Free Religion, he was not getting any mercy from me. There was that Heroic Gesture event though. Please don't tell me that resets war success even when you reject it.

I have been looking at that thread whenever I needed a dossier on a foreign leader.

3GD gives free hydro power to all cities on the landmass/continent of the city it is built in. Essentially giving a free hydro power plant to each city. Hydro Plants are replacements for the coal plant, and they do have a health malus (-2 I think) but less than the coal plant. 3GD is generally a questionable wonder though even in space games, but can pay off nicely if you have a lot of cities on one land mass and a GE or two to speed it along, as it is quite expensive. Often it is just better to go with the earlier coal plants in your best production cities which often are built quite fast anyway by that point after factories.
What? Hydro Plant doesn't say anything about adding unhealth. Anyway, I built Three Gorges to speed up the later parts, since they would be the limiting factor to the launch.

Keep in mind that not building both Space Engines (or I think any other possible expendable parts?) will increase the likelihood of mission failure. I usually build all parts unless I really pressed to launch - maybe in an OCC game. I don't think having all parts built has any chance for mission failure, at least I've not seen it. So yeah, usually plan to build all the parts. You will get more savvy as you learn on how to get parts out faster and time/sync them better. (ha..i'm actually not that terribly good at it myself, but Space games are not my preference)
I thought Casings would be for success, and Thrusters and Engines for speed. I don't really like the mission failure mechanic. Random chance is not good for events that happen only once or twice in an entire game.

I don't remember if you can save scum in Civ 4. There might have been an option to have seeds, but I can't recall.

keep playing :)
That's the plan. Next game is Honest Abe, Conquest Victory with Specialist Economy transitioning to Cottage Economy when I capture the towns of my enemies.

but this gets more intricate later with other relationships that open up. Such as when you take on vassals. AI might like you but not the vassal, and total modifiers are added together.
I, uh, kind of turned off the vassals. I heard horror stories like your closest allies deciding to take enemies under your wing

So choosing a side in a bloc an be important, but you can also stay neutral.
I figured most of the time you will want to choose a side, since constant requests to stop trade and declare war would eventually poison relations with everybody, not to mention the whole Worst Enemy thing.
 
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I figured most of the time you will want to choose a side, since constant requests to stop trade and declare war would eventually poison relations with everybody, not to mention the whole Worst Enemy thing.

This is always my problem, I completely neglect diplo and knee-jerk refuse any stop trading or 'help us in war' requests, which leads all AIs to be annoyed or cautious and none to be friendly or pleased (though admittedly not furious either). This in turn leads to me getting dogpiled in wars which leads to awesomeness.
 
When going for culture victory, I always want Drama. Those theaters are important additives to culture. However, I always want them anyway. Once monuments are gone, they are important for expanding new cities from one ring to two rings of usable tiles. But of course, I have my own idiosyncrasies regarding culture. I enjoy the culture aspect of the game. I almost always try to stay on good terms with a close neighbor, build a city near the AI city, and then steal the city using culture influence. Theaters are important for that as well. Someone will undoubtedly say that I could just declare war and take the city that way. However, the point is I enjoy doing it with culture instead! :crazyeye: :D

That's the main beauty, there are many different ways to enjoy the game.
 
I completely neglect diplo and knee-jerk refuse any stop trading or 'help us in war' requests, which leads all AIs to be annoyed or cautious and none to be friendly or pleased (though admittedly not furious either). This in turn leads to me getting dogpiled in wars which leads to awesomeness.

Since I usually play tech trading off, some of the diplo options aren't as strong, and I too have a tendency to knee-jerk and just flip the bird at most requests. But most importantly, YES it leads to awesomeness. :D
 
Since he declared war on me because I went Free Religion, he was not getting any mercy from me. There was that Heroic Gesture event though. Please don't tell me that resets war success even when you reject it.

I'm pretty sure it does not. I generally play without events and huts for that matter


What? Hydro Plant doesn't say anything about adding unhealth. Anyway, I built Three Gorges to speed up the later parts, since they would be the limiting factor to the launch.

Hmm..I've been going off of BUG/BULL for so long that I've not checked the civlopedia on that stuff in years, but the pedia is not that clear. Regardless of building, "Power" generates +2 unhealth. Coal Plant adds additional unhealth due to the coal though

I thought Casings would be for success, and Thrusters and Engines for speed. I don't really like the mission failure mechanic. Random chance is not good for events that happen only once or twice in an entire game.

I don't remember if you can save scum in Civ 4. There might have been an option to have seeds, but I can't recall.

Well, seems logical that mission failure would be a possibility if the project is incomplete. Simple solution is to build all the things.

There is an option in custom settings called "Random Seed on Reload", which does, as you say, enable a sort of save scumming. I play without that option, and the option is illegal for forum games like GOTM and HOF. (Well, GOTM it is up to the creator what options he provides, so illegal isn't the correct term)


I, uh, kind of turned off the vassals. I heard horror stories like your closest allies deciding to take enemies under your wing

Vassals is a preference. I play with it on as it is an "option". I like it for conquest/domination games.


I figured most of the time you will want to choose a side, since constant requests to stop trade and declare war would eventually poison relations with everybody, not to mention the whole Worst Enemy thing.

Really depends on what you are trying to do and the overall situation. Staying in a more neutral position can be beneficial - at least for some time during the early parts of the game until things are more clear and your position is stronger. Having Open Borders can trigger request/demands though. However, Open Borders are valuable for trade routes and diplo building. If there is a leader though that is just hated by everyone, I may well ignore him/her.
 
You traded with our worst enemy can happen when you give an AI techs, world maps or other stuff with one time gold value.
Giving free resources will also slowly increase this negative diplo modifier. On the other hand it also slowly increases "the fair and forthright trades" positive diplo modifier.
 
'Power' in itself makes two (?) citizens sick, yes, no matter the source of it. Coal Plants make additional citizens sick.
 
Power results in two unhealthiness (green faces) no matter what, coming from a shale plant, coal, hydro, nuclear, etc. As noted the coal plant results in two more unhealthy faces from coal; thus if you take away coal from the city you have no more power and no more coal unhealth (-4 unhealthiness). The Three Gorges Dam institutes a Hydro plant in every city in the continent, so there is no way around the -2 power unhelathiness, unless (almost always there is an unless clause in this great game): there is no Factory, assembly plant built, or you gift the Dam out of your country/PA.
 
The real question is whether the Recycling Plant gets rid of the unhealth from Power. Anyone know that off the top of their head?
 
The real question is whether the Recycling Plant gets rid of the unhealth from Power. Anyone know that off the top of their head?
No it doesn´t. The recycling center just takes away unhealthiness "from buildings". I understand it´s catchy here, but just the green faces displayed besides buildings in the city screen buildings list goes away. No unhealthiness from resources, terrain, power, pop, poisoned water fades whatsoever.
 
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I swear the Power unhealth isn't documented in the game...

Anyway, Lincoln's been emancipating non-American cities from their owners. More questions/observations.
-Isabella isn't one to beg for peace when she's being crushed, is she? I wonder what AIs are the same.
-Bunged up an Axeman attack against a city with an Archer on a hill. I guess I underestimated that city's defenses.
-What was supposed to be an Axeman rush turned into a Catapult siege. I guess building the Pyramids delayed me quite a bit.
-Got a Great Spy. Thinking of using it against Ragnar. I don't think there's a detailed article on how Espionage Missions work. What influences the success rate? Anything I should consider when using the revolt mission?
-It's nice being able to have gold to upgrade units while teching at a good rate.
-After I absorb my continent, I'll have to think about the daunting task of launching an intercontinental invasion. Starting to wonder if it'll be better to wait for Navy SEALs. I don't remember considerations such as transport chains.
 
A spy in a target city can increase its chances up to 50% by sitting there for 5 turns (10% increase each turn). Ofc, the spy can sit there as long as he wants, but note that spies can get caught in enemy borders ( I believe the chance for that is impacted by the EP ratio to the target, but not sure the exact numbers. It's on the low side regardless, but it can and will happen)

Tech stealing on lower levels is really not all that effective, unless you truly are having trouble keeping up in tech. It can allow you to certainly avoid certain tech paths and catch up on those. So try it, or if running Representation, just settle it in your science city.

Religion can effect that cost of spy missions. I believe it is target cities that have the same religion as the one you adopted.

I recommend being judicious about upgrading units. First and foremost, you want bank to fund research. Certainly highly promoted units might be upgraded, but I'd avoid just upgrading hodgepodge a bunch of units. You can always build newer and better units. With that said, there may be times you plan for a mass upgrade of a specific unit type. For instance, and something I do quite often, is build up horse archer, war elephants, and/or knights (likely all have some promoted HAs from an earlier war anyway), make sure I generate a Great Merchant or two for trade missions in Temple of Artemis city (or otherwise best yield city for missions), and prepare to mass upgrade them all to Curs after Libbing Military Tradition. Then stomp the map with my Cur army of death. (If you can't tell, I'm a fan of mounted warfare, which is far more effective in IV)

Navy Seals are up to you, but attack if you feel you have the tech advantage regardless. I rarely am fighting that late in the game to use those units. But if you are hitting the later eras..sure. Have your battleships bombard down the city, maybe some airstrikes to weaken defenders, then swoop in with your amphibious Seals.

I don't believe AIs ever initiate Peace Deals in BTS. They did in earlier versions I think.
 
It escapes me, as it has been so long, but seem to recall some sort of BUG wiki or something somewhere. Anyway, this online BUG guide may be usefull

http://civ4bug.sourceforge.net/BUGModHelp/ENG/index.htm

You can also find pretty much the same stuff located in the "info" folder in your BUG mod folder, if you install it as "stand-alone".

Not sure if if it includes BULL stuff, but I believe BULL notes can be find in the extract.

Note that BUG is made up of a bunch of other mods mainly.
 
A spy in a target city can increase its chances up to 50% by sitting there for 5 turns (10% increase each turn). Ofc, the spy can sit there as long as he wants, but note that spies can get caught in enemy borders ( I believe the chance for that is impacted by the EP ratio to the target, but not sure the exact numbers. It's on the low side regardless, but it can and will happen)

Tech stealing on lower levels is really not all that effective, unless you truly are having trouble keeping up in tech. It can allow you to certainly avoid certain tech paths and catch up on those. So try it, or if running Representation, just settle it in your science city.

Religion can effect that cost of spy missions. I believe it is target cities that have the same religion as the one you adopted.
Thanks for the primer.

I recommend being judicious about upgrading units. First and foremost, you want bank to fund research. Certainly highly promoted units might be upgraded, but I'd avoid just upgrading hodgepodge a bunch of units. You can always build newer and better units.
I am getting a lot of highly promoted units, so the Commerce will be used to fund unit upgrades when the time comes. Until then, research grants.

In the process of emancipating Scandinavia now. More observations and questions:
-Catapults don't upgrade to Trebuchets. I guess they have different roles. Reading the wiki, Catapults are cheaper, have 1 more strength but don't have +100% city attack, and are less effective in terms of bombards and collateral damage. I suppose Cats are more for dealing with stacks rather than cities. Also:
-Both say "Cannot attack amphibiously". I'll assume that doesn't include attacking across a river.
-Stone seems to be the warmonger's building material (Walls, Castles, West Point, Mt. Rushmore, Moai Statues). The only exception seems to be Heroic Epic.
 
Amphibiously means from a transport (galley, galleon, or transport ). Attacking across a river gives a bonus to the defender (+25%, if I recall correctly).

Both cats and trebs upgrade to cannons.

Walls and castles are for defense--a true warmonger rarely builds them, preferring to build units to take cities.
 
Cats are the goto for early non-mounted warfare. If you are warring at that point, you should bring a lot of them. Keep in mind that they are disposable. Their purpose is to bombard and weaken units in a city. In some cases you just avoid the bombard phase, depending on what you are up against. The idea of course is extending the life of your fighters. Trebs are quite nice later, although I often don't use them for the time period, rather moving on to better/faster mounted warfare. On lower levels though they can be very effective.

Stone seems to be the warmonger's building material (Walls, Castles, West Point, Mt. Rushmore, Moai Statues)..

I don't really think of it in those terms, since the buildings you mention I never build, except maybe Moai if the map dictates. If you have early stone and coastal cities, Moai can be great for fail gold. Otherwise, there are some other good wonders of note that use Stone, of which Pyramids is the most powerful. If I have early stone, you can be assured I will build the Mids.
 
Reading a bit more actually showed the Mids are an alternate way to expand the happy cap (like Religion, HR, or Calendar) in the early game. Provided you can build it quick, of course.

America achieved its Manifest Destiny of owning the entire continent.
-I love the Trebuchet battle animation. It looks like its whipping enemy soldiers to death.
-Ragnar built the Apostolic Palace as the last city before his capital fell. I don't understand why he, of all the civs, would do that. I own it now, and it's nice that it gives bonus Hammers even you're not in its State Religion. As if I needed any more help to win.
-Barbs spawn really quick in fog, don't they? Just one turn is all you need.
 
Okay, so after reading this very interesting thread, let me first say that I'm no Deity player (I now play on Monarch or Emperor, epic, large (12) or huge (18) civs, all random settings and civs and shuffle), but I cannot fathom not researching Drama. I've played about 12 years with all three versions of 4. Now, if I draw a cultural civ, Drama isn't quite as important, but the point is that I find theaters to be important both in any type of cultural play *AND* any time of warmongering play. Theaters can quell resistance and unhappiness on the front lines and expand borders faster than just about anything. They are also important for whipping. In short, I think the theater is one of the most important buildings you can have in the early game all the way through to the endgame.

In addition, you can trade that tech with lots of people. Now, in BTS I always play "no tech brokering" (to keep the tech rate down to a reasonable level), so if I don't research it myself then I can't trade with it. In the old game (with tech trading) I played Noble to Monarch, and even on those levels you can trade Drama for lots of things.

Again, this is just my opinion. I'm still wrapping my head around "not researching archery" on higher levels like lymond was suggesting -- he's a heck of a lot better than me, so I'm sure that's very good advice, but I have no idea how I would survive the early game without archers.... :crazyeye:

As a final note, the peace deal above with QSH -- if he had made a war declaration with another civ against you (or maybe even had a defensive pact and you attacked?!), then there is a time limit before he can accept a peace deal.
 
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