Why is everyone so obsessed with Education/Mysticism?

[smusebaer]

Cottages would fit in Masonry very good. I never thought cottages to be right in education.
And Cottages are build out ouf stone. Animal handling would be another fitting tech, but I think masonry could use the boost.

 

[JFred]

Cottages would fit in Masonry very good. I never thought cottages to be right in education.
And Cottages are build out ouf stone.

So true !

 

[Ahriman]

Bah... its not the physical infrastructure of buildings that cottages represent, its the specialisation and trade possibilities provided by an educated population that moves beyond just subsistence farming, living in villages in towns. The issue isn't can you build them houses, its can your society/economy support increased population density.

Also:

I think uberfish had the best solution for chopping...allow it from turn 1 but only unlock hammer bonus at Bronze Working.

Thats an excellent solution.

 

[Caradoc]

Cottages can be made out of stone or wood or even straw (ask the 3 little pigs). What we are really looking for is a low-tech version of Construction. The closest tech we have to that is Crafting, which does not really make sense as a precursor to Mining anyway. Before either of these, there should be Tools, but that would be something all Civilizations would start with and does not need to be in the tech tree.

 

[Elm]

What if cottages came earlier, but would not improve without later techs? That is, will not work towards a town, etc. until a tech is reached. That would slow them down in the earlier game but allow you to have a way to increase trade at the start.

Starting with exploration or masonry maybe?

 

[TheJopa]

I like the idea that cottages give 0 gold, and only when upgrade to hamlets give 1 gold. Then add a latter tech that increases yield from cottage line by +1. That tech can be even education, allowing cottages to be built from the start.

 

[Ecofarm]

2. Chopping at a reduced speed and/or hammers should be possible at game start; crafting adds hammers and bronze/iron adds speed.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

 

[JFred]

Bah... its not the physical infrastructure of buildings that cottages represent, its the specialisation and trade possibilities provided by an educated population that moves beyond just subsistence farming, living in villages in towns.

We're here talking about what research can provide, and to have "an educated population that moves beyond just subsistence farming", you have to be able to build those farms, first. Masonry is the logical start of it. Education could (as an example) make it possible to grow cottages to further stages.

That's just my point of view.

 

[Ekolite]

I agree with all of this. However, I think the reason that Chopping comes so (comparitively) late is because Kael imagines most Erebusian nations to be quite heavilly forested, particulaly during the early Age of Rebirth. I think it might be better to leave it how it is but program it so that no civ's start (except elves) are too heavilly forested.

 

[MondSemmel]

I agree with all of this. However, I think the reason that Chopping comes so (comparitively) late is because Kael imagines most Erebusian nations to be quite heavilly forested, particulaly during the early Age of Rebirth. I think it might be better to leave it how it is but program it so that no civ's start (except elves) are too heavilly forested.

The main problems, as far as I know, are forested ressources (except for Deer and Fur) - metals and calendar ressources mainly. Usually you only need one tech to obtain a new ressource, but in these cases, you need several.
It would even be enough if at least forested ressources would be choppable without Bronze Working...
Besides, mapscripts and tech trees aren't really connected, and that's exactly why this change was proposed.

 

[Ekolite]

Why not allow plantations to be built without removing the forest? It would help make up for having a heavy forest start and remove some of the Elves' early overpowered-ness without removing their uniqueness.

 

[uberfish]

The over-forested starts are really more of a problem for the AI - human player can always move

Also fishing needs to be available at start to make it a viable opening option, being buried behind crafting makes it correct to research fishing first about 0% of the time, even that might be an overestimate

 

[Ahriman]

We're here talking about what research can provide, and to have "an educated population that moves beyond just subsistence farming", you have to be able to build those farms, first.

Umm, you do know that education requires agriculture, right?