Why is jungle so terrible?

[phizuol]

-1 food, -0.25 health, requires tech from next era to remove, gives no hammers from chopping, and can spread to cover up workable tiles before you can even get your first workers out.

The only good things about jungle are happiness from environmental civics/improvements late in the game and the fact that there will be grassland underneath. I don't think these justify how awful jungle is, especially with the dreaded "jungle start". When it starts spreading and you can't get your city over 3 pop due to health problems and it makes your workers and settlers build at a snail's pace due to cutting away at your food production. This is a crippling blow when other civs get grassland and forests which can be worked and chopped to great benefit without needed to tech to a new era.

Is there ever a way to make up for the disadvantage of having a jungle-heavy start or is this just a "deal with it or restart" situation?

 

[TheLazyHase]

There is no way to make jungle useful to human. Jungle city are long term investment.

The good thing is that you can actually make something (by cutting the jungle). Tundra start does not have this chance.

 

[binhthuy71]

Jungle starts are a pain in the neck. I usually send my warrior or scout looking for a better locale. Normally, my Settler has to hike for no more than four turns to start in an acceptable place. As a side note; about half of the time I move my Settler to a different starting location from the one chosen by the AI. AI seems to favor coastal starts and while that's neat in several ways it can hurt you with maintenance penalties for distance from capitol.
It took me a while to accept that sometimes a few turns of delay in founding my capitol would actually mean that I could expand faster and more cheaply in the long run.

 

[Silu]

Jungle is so terrible because a) the land underneath is grassland, the best kind b) it often has a lot of useful resources in it - Dye, Banana, Gems, etc.

A size 3 city with a road to it generally isn't unhealthy, unless you're extremely unlucky with your starting area resources. Often it's possible to settle jungle cities in a way that they can work enough tiles to be useful until you can get IW and spare the worker force to cut away more of the jungle. In the late game these are the best commerce cities.

 

[phizuol]

Jungle is so terrible because a) the land underneath is grassland, the best kind b) it often has a lot of useful resources in it - Dye, Banana, Gems, etc.

A size 3 city with a road to it generally isn't unhealthy, unless you're extremely unlucky with your starting area resources. Often it's possible to settle jungle cities in a way that they can work enough tiles to be useful until you can get IW and spare the worker force to cut away more of the jungle. In the late game these are the best commerce cities.

What if the jungle IS your starting area? It's not as if grassland and resources (other than bananas) aren't plentiful elsewhere. I wouldn't mind expanding to a nice jungle spot as an investment, but as a starting location you're out of luck.

I do like binhthuy71's suggestion though, and it seems like something I should have thought of before. Just move out of the jungle before you settle! The loss of a few turns to move is nothing compared to the suffering of trying to get started in a poor location.

 

[Silu]

What if the jungle IS your starting area? It's not as if grassland and resources (other than bananas) aren't plentiful elsewhere. I wouldn't mind expanding to a nice jungle spot as an investment, but as a starting location you're out of luck.

Well your capital at least is guaranteed to not have jungle. Having only jungle to settle is pretty rare but happens, then you just need to prioritize IW, build a ton of workers, and possibly think about Serfdom if you're desperate or spiritual.

One of the most annoying things about massive jungles are the barbs that keep spawning there. This can work in your favor though if you have proper defenses or GW, they can keep AIs away for a while so you can stabilize your economy and techs enough to really tackle the jungle.

 

[Isikien]

For horsehockys and giggles, in a custom game play the amazon map.

In fact, I actually found that really fun. Something weirdly compulsive about slowing deforesting the world around you. Must have industry in my blood

 

[TeraHammer]

Jungles are nice if you're looking for a challenge. Take Huana Capac in the Earth18civs scenario for example. Im with Isikien; we make the world a better place by removing those -1 food -0,25 health tiles!

But yeah, if you're not looking for that challenge, jungles suck to start in.

 

[phizuol]

Jungles are kinda fun actually, yeah. The problem is when the AI has nice starting spots and gets a massive head start. That's the part I don't like. If everyone is in the same situation I have no problem with that.

 

[pi-r8]

The nice thing about jungle is that you can let the AI settle it, and they'll just have worthless cities for the first 2000 years. Meanwhile you can build an army, and take all their jungle cities once you've got iron working and enough workers to chop down the jungle quickly.