Why is my Military always so Weak???

Amber_10

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
11
Hi folks,

Any help would be appreciated...

No matter which strategy I use, how strong my units are etc, when it comes to fighting the A1 is always tougher even if he has the weaker units.

I can spend ages building a great empire, tough armies.... yet when it comes to war even the weak countries can't be broken, why?

Am I missing something here?

Thanks. :)

Edit:- Also, why is it that some countries when at war with each other can just swoop from city to city destroying, yet if it was your armies it just would not work like that? One time Mansa Musa completely wiped out Catherine like he was sweeping leaves off the pavement, he wiped her off the map.

And one more thing... why it when you get allies they do nothing?

Thanks for the help guys. :)
 
You would be better off posting a screenshot or save of what you are doing. When it comes to military, there could be dozens of things that could be wrong. However, there are some general rules.

1. Siege. usually the more the better if you are attacking cities or huge stacks of enemies.

2. Diversify your army. Do not just build one type of unit.

3. Choose promotions carefully. Sometimes, I never promote my units until the enemy comes or I need a quick healing. This allows you to better adapt your army.

4. Seige. Seriously it is that important.

5. If you can't take a city, destroy the surrounding area of improvements, but if you do not have the troops to take a city, you probably should not attack in the first place.

6. Go to the war acadamy here on this site.

Hope this helps but without more information on how you play, what units you use, your tech situation, and many other things, it is hard to give specific help.
 
Thanks I will look at that. :D

I actually already do a lot of what you already said, when you say screen shot are you talking about the image or something else?
 
Choose the unit you are going to attack with and then hold down Alt when you mouse-over your target to give you the combat odds. If nothing else it well let you decide whether to attack with that unit or another one.

Learn to curse the Random Number Generator - even when it says >99.9% chance you will win, there is still that .01% chance you'll lose. Last night I lost lvl 3 Knights to Axemen and lvl 4 Riflemen to Archers.

The more siege engines you bring the better. Taking one Catapult will get the job done, but in the time it takes you to lower their defences they have brought in/trained bucket-loads of reinforcements... and the longer you are occupied with one city the longer their other cities have time to prepare.

Always train at least one Medic in your army. Better yet, train a Woodsman.
 
yes when I say screen shot I mean taking a picture of your game screen and posting it here for us to see.
 
Most of this will just be a reiteration of what has already been said, but it's hard to come up with much without some screenshots or saves. (Yes, a screenshot is just a picture of what is happening in the game. Try to take screenshots that show who kind of an army you're attacking with, and what you're attacking.)

Siege is important, but it might not be obvious just how important it is. Unless you are rushing an opponent before he is ready to defend (like an Axeman or Chariot rush) you'll probably want at least a third of your army to be siege weapons, maybe as much as half early on. Make sure you bombard any city defenses before going in. (You want enough siege to make this a 1-turn process, if at all possible) Then attack with the siege weapons, sending them to their doom over and over until the enemy is weak enough to run over. The siege weapons are sacrifices. Trust me, you'll be happy to rebuild 5 or so catapults when they're the only units you lost taking a city with 15-20 defenders.

You want to be attacking with a reasonably large stack of units. Any time you fail to take a city and allow the emeny units time to heal, you're losing a lot of your work, so bring enough to make sure you'll take all the cities you want. The exact size depends on a lot of factors, including game speed, difference in tech levels, and so on, and you'll get a feel for the right size as you play more. But I don't feel comfortable wandering around with a stack of less than 15 units or so, usually more, and the size increases as the game goes on until nukes change the rules of the game. :)

A medic will help you take out opponents much more efficiently. Take one of your great generals, attach him to a newly created unit, and use the XP to buy the whole Medic series of promotions. It will dramatically increase the speed of your attack. (Just make sure your medic stays well-guarded in your stack, and you don't lose it attacking. That unit's job is to sit around and look pretty, and maybe win the occasional 98-99.9% battle as needed.)

Saving promotions for the healing effect can also be very useful in speeding up a war. When you promote a unit, you heal half the damage it currently has, so it can often be a good idea to do your first attack with some of your promotions unused, then use the promotions after the first attack to heal up. When you're picking promotions, the City Raider series and Combat series are obviously always useful, but if you want until you're in the enemy's territory, you can also pick correct counter-promotions if you see an imbalanced army on their side.

And of course, read the strategy guides in the War Academy on this site. There's a ton of helpful info there on all aspects of the game.
 
Thanks a lot, was a great help. :)

So this screen shot... I know how to use the snipping tool on my pc but that won't work when the game is running, how do I do it? Thanks. :)
 
On a PC when you are in game just press the print screen key (PrtScr)

Then alt+tab out and look in windows explorer;

On vista my screenshots end up in:

C:\Users\<user name>\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\ScreenShots
 
Thanks a lot, was a great help. :)

So this screen shot... I know how to use the snipping tool on my pc but that won't work when the game is running, how do I do it? Thanks. :)

If you use a PC then all you have to do for a screenshot is press the prt scrn button and then the screenshot will (nearly always) appear in your C:\Users\<name>\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\ScreenShots folder (replace Beyond the Sword with Sid Meiers' Civilisation IV if you are not using BTS).
A few other things I would like to add 1) If you have the patience then two stacks are better than one, and try to have half siege on each. I'm currently in a game where I've four stacks attacking Carthage from Rome overseas. Its making life easier. (Game is at Prince)
2) If you've gotten as far as physics air units are a must (especially after flight), and build carriers on flight, while fighters aren't great for bombarding on their own they add up.
3) Decide what you want from the war, if you want juicy wonder/shrine then the stack needs to be only big enough for that one city (plus defense), if you want capitulation then at least 3-4 cities with attrition (I usually reckon on about 30 cities in early game and rising steeply later), and if you want total anhilliation you'd better aim for higher power in your SoDs than the opposition has in total.
 
Thanks so much guys.

I got the screen shots now to show you, I am the Russian Tsar. :D





I had quite a few stacks of different units, the pikemen were promoted to attack cities.

Hope this helps. :)
 
Well first of all swords are better than pikes at city attacks, they get an extra 10% before promotions.
For catapults, City Raider is generally better than barrage. I usually have a mixture of CR1 ACC1 (for the walls) and CR2 cats in my stack.
At this stage I would also go for Civil Service for Macemen as well as they're very good units for medieval warfare.
Trebuchets should be coming up too (at engineering) and in a medieval war if you have enough of these and cats then anything will do for mop up as long as you've enough bodies.
Get the promotions available out the gate in your army building cities (usually good production/decent food cities). So that means Barracks, stables if you have horses, dockyards on the coast, settle great generals, Pentagon and West Point later on, and run Vassalage and/or Theology.
Also pick out what cities you are going to build the National Wonders from Heroic Epic, West Point, Ironworks and Red Cross all affect military, and while HE and Ironworks will give you insane tank production in your highest hammer, it may be better to split them up if you've 2 or 3 good production cities.

Please not that these bits of advice are for BtS and I think your playing either Vanilla or Warlords.
 
There are 3 things important to a good military, economy, tech and production. All three of these appear to be severely lacking in your game.....

Growing into :mad: is something you should be trying to avoid, not farming more and growing further into it. :mad: citizens provide nothing at all and the best use for them is Slavery, which would solve your production problems.
1685 is the age of at least Riflemen, if not nukes! Not pre civil service....
Something has gone horribly wrong, but putting your slider to 100% and researching at a :gold: defecit will at least get you started.
With the general state of your economy, the slow teching and masses of :mad: are really holding you back


If you are using automated workers, don't. They are awful until you understand them, and to do that you need to learn the basics. Hit cntrl+Y to place the tile yields on the map, this will help you pick things up a bit quicker and cntrl+R will add resource bubbles making resources easier to see for you, and anyone looking at your screenshots.


Your screenshot of Moscow shows a lot of the weaknesses in management.
With so much :mad: you should be working cottages or specialists more than farms, farms add nothing in such cases unless your using the Slavery civic, which you aren't.
Don't bother farming plains tiles, they are very weak tiles till at least Chemistry. A city shouldn't really be workign these tiles till all good ones are being used, your city is unfortunately in chaos with the improvement scheme and tile usage, a lot of that would have been better off cottaged, especially the floodplains.

Beware of the Pyramids! They can be very strong but they are easily the biggest newbie trap in the game. They cost huge amounts and until you know how to do basic city management they won't give any benefit at all.

Walls are almost always terrible buildings, I would avoid them till you play on Emperor at least!
Edit:- Also, why is it that some countries when at war with each other can just swoop from city to city destroying, yet if it was your armies it just would not work like that? One time Mansa Musa completely wiped out Catherine like he was sweeping leaves off the pavement, he wiped her off the map.
Its more to do with having the right strategy, unit types, numbers etc. In BTS late game its quite possible to completely annihilate an entire civ in a single turn. Early on Horse Archers can make mincemeat of even medium sized civs in less than ten turns, it just takes some experience.
And one more thing... why it when you get allies they do nothing?
The AIs are really bad at war in general, its not until they get the big bonuses at Emperor and Immortal that they become worth anything.
Amber_10 said:
I had quite a few stacks of different units, the pikemen were promoted to attack cities.
Brian Shanahan said:
Well first of all swords are better than pikes at city attacks, they get an extra 10% before promotions.
As Brian quite rightly said, Pikes are not good at attacking cities. However the 10% he mentioned is the least of the reasons its a bad idea, for a start, the cost difference means if you put the same amount of :hammers: into Swords as you did Pikes you would have 50% more.
More importantly however is that Pikes comes with techs that are quite pointless, Engineering and Machinery are nowhere near as important as Civil Service! Not even both of them combined :lol:. Wasting huge amounts of :science: on pointless techs really hurts your military efforts.


When it comes to building a stack up try to think of 3 categories of units.

Seige
These will be your heavy lifters, use them to bombard defenses and then suicide a few into an enemy stack. This will cause massive collateral damage and make the stack easy for your main attackers to crush. Seige should make up around 50% of your stack, more if your playing Vanilla civ4 and they can still kill units.

Main attackers
These guys are there to follow your seige into cities or stacks, their job is just to wipe out whatevers left and they should be made up of Axes/Maces/Musket/Rifles/Infantry etc. these should make up most of the rest of your stack after your seige.

Stack defense
This is where your Pikes come in. These units are there to protect your stack from counter units, Pikes will stop Knights, Crossbows will stop Macemen etc etc.

Mounted warfare is very different, relying on mobility to attack and is probably best left to learn later.

I would recommend reading Sisiutil's begginers guide, its for BTS but most of the things still apply to Vanilla and Warlords.
Sisiutil has another guide on stack composition too
 
Civilization 4 is complicated as far as video games go so don't feel bad that you're struggling. One of the things that greatly helped me, is I read a lot of the strategy articles on here and I found a bunch of high quality videos on youtube.

TheMeInTeam has a series called "Let's Play Civilization IV" where he plays as a variety of different civilizations on different maps. I find them quite instructional and I learned a ton when it comes to war mongering.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMelnTeam (Don't watch the Mao one yet. It's a multiplayer and he hasn't finished posting them all.)

One piece of advice I haven't seen here which I suspect may be part of your problem is you lack numbers. Even with a superior army, an invasion will grind to a halt if you are stuck healing 3/4 of your army after every fight. By the time 1685 comes around I like to bum rush my enemies with at least a stack of 20+ units. This way I can keep moving as I leave the injured behind to heal in my captured cities.
 
You've got one hell of a gold stockpile there! Unless you're using it for something, you don't need that much gold. Usually a stockpile of about 100 will cover you until the Industrial Age, and then you'll want a little more. Set your slider so that it's at the minimum amount you can still get an income.

If you're still in Slavery, whip off your unhappy people and keep them away. If you're not, and you don't have Drama yet, switch to Slavery, but if you do have Drama, bump your culture slider up until most of the unhappy people are gone. You're at war, so some of them could be coming from war weariness. Then when the war ends, check your happiness again to be sure you're not over-spending on culture.

You don't seem to be taking advantage of the resources in your capital city's fat-cross. Turn on resource bubbles (as previous poster suggested) and have your workers rebuild the correct improvements on each resource.

Take a look at your graphs screen and switch to the power graph. Never be at war with anyone who has more power than you. Don't declare war on anyone unless you're stronger than them. At least, not until you know how to make war. For now, get out of the war you're in if you can; if you can't, try bribing someone to go to war with you against your enemy because otherwise you're going to get stomped with such a huge tech disadvantage.

The last piece of advice I'll give you is to play to the strengths of the leader/civ you've got. Russia has Cossacks, which is an advanced cavalry unit, so it'll take a while to get it, and they have Laboratories which are a very advanced research building, so it'll take even longer to get them. With most civs you should beeline to their special abilities, but you can't with Russia until mid-game, but you can still take advantage of your leader's traits. Build whatever they get bonuses to build a little more often.

For your next game you might want to start with an easier civ, like Rome.

Don't give this one up just yet. You probably won't "win", but you'll gain a lot of experience seeing the difference it makes as you adjust to your new strategies. To catch up in tech you'll have to beg a lot, but that's okay. Maybe pour a lot of money/buildings into espionage and steal techs. And stay out of war this game, even if it means giving AIs something they demand. Until you can keep them from just taking what they want.
 
Thanks Brian Shanahan you were a great help.

Ghpstage - Thanks for the in depth answer it has been a great help too.

Thank you everyone for the links I will read them.

TheDS thanks a lot. :)

When I purchased civ4 I did not get a booklet with the disk so I can only learn from the game itself and on here. It is easy to feel stupid asking for help but I always think that if you don't ask then you will never know.

Thanks again for your help everyone, I am sure I will be needing some more advice so bear with me. :)
 
one more idea that I found made things a little easier.

First off, I would consider downloading BUG mod. It does not alter the game but it helps a lot with giving information. I have found the advanced scoreboard to be very useful if customized correctly.

Secondly, if you have not, I would read in on some of the civpedia entries. I am not sure but I think BUG comes with more pedia entries too that are in depth guides.

One final question though that I did not see answered anywhere. Are you playing BTS? I think you are playing just standard Civ IV because I do not see an espionage slider but you could be playing with it turned off.

BTS late game is a lot different than Vanilla and the patches change the game dramatically too.
 
He is not playing BtS. No corp and espionage screen buttons in the top right.

He is not playing Warlords, since the screens show rounding to the units and not to the second decimal like Warlords and BtS ;)

The evidence is clear: he is playing vanilla :D That means no BUG :(
 
Thanks again for your advise it really helps.

I am not sure whether I am using BTS or Vanilla? How do I find this out?

Sorry for being an amateur but I have only just started this game. Now I am determined to come back and show you a better screen shot. lol :lol:
 
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