Why is the Khevsur unit hated a lot?

Well, the upside of a crappy UU is that you dont feel bad holding back building it until you need that little era boost score. Or below average unique district like the roman bath.
 
ezzlar said:
Or below average unique district like the roman bath.
Click to expand...
Slightly off topic but a half price aqueduct with an additional +2 housing and +1 Amenity makes it worth building. What people often forget is the district adjacency it gives while not counting toward the limit. Many civs do not have a UD and yes, compared to other UD's it's not the best but you have to take it in context with the rest of Romes abilities.
Other civs have bad UU's or something else poor, Rome is one of the few civs that does not really have anything pointless.
 
+1 amenity is huge, and for little cost compared to entertainment district. Though eventually you'll want those. Or just build one and the colosseum and you are set for a long time. You can get some big cities. I know you guys like to play with size 10 cities or whatever, but I can't play that way. I want over size 20 cities.

Now I'm in the mood to play Rome, they are awesome.
 
Victoria said:
Many civs do not have a UD and yes, compared to other UD's it's not the best but you have to take it in context with the rest of Romes abilities.
Click to expand...

One of the consequences of their design decisions that:
  • UIs will take a full builder charge
  • UBs will cost a normal building amount
  • but UDs will be half price
is that a UD will always start out so much stronger than a UI or UB that the UI or UB would need significantly greater bonuses to compensate, and generally that hasn't been the case.

The more useful the underlying district, the more valuable it is to have a UD, and even for a relatively unimportant district, having a UD will typically be stronger than having a UI or UB.
 
I don't think it was a coding error that some UUs aren't able to be upgraded into; I think it was an intentional design decision. If you go back and watch the First Look videos, they make it a point to say "[Civ 1]'s Unique Unit is the [Unit A]" rather than "[Civ 1]'s Unique Unit is the [Unit A] which replaces the [Unit X]"
 
Trav'ling Canuck said:
One of the consequences of their design decisions that:
  • UIs will take a full builder charge
  • UBs will cost a normal building amount
  • but UDs will be half price
is that a UD will always start out so much stronger than a UI or UB that the UI or UB would need significantly greater bonuses to compensate, and generally that hasn't been the case.

The more useful the underlying district, the more valuable it is to have a UD, and even for a relatively unimportant district, having a UD will typically be stronger than having a UI or UB.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think it's weird that a UD is half price, but a UB isn't. There's not a lot of them - feels like it wouldn't be too hard to make them all half price, and outside of maybe Japan now being able to cheaply industrialize, I don't think it would make any of them too OP. UI I understand not being able to give them a half charge - some of them compensate by being quite strong, and have the bonus that you can now get extra faith/culture/science where you couldn't before. Others are just pathetic and weak.

shaglio said:
I don't think it was a coding error that some UUs aren't able to be upgraded into; I think it was an intentional design decision. If you go back and watch the First Look videos, they make it a point to say "[Civ 1]'s Unique Unit is the [Unit A]" rather than "[Civ 1]'s Unique Unit is the [Unit A] which replaces the [Unit X]"
Click to expand...

Well, it was an intentional choice to space them between other units instead of replacing another unit, for sure. But I'm inclined to think that it's more of a coding thing of why they didn't "insert" them into the upgrade path. Probably set so that swordsman upgrades to Musketman (or anything that replaces a musketman), and changing that to add a second upgrade option for them would complicate things too much for them.
 
I agree with what people are posting but lets not lose sight of the fact that even if Khevsurs were upgrade-able they still wouldn't be worth much. Military Tactics is absolutely awful. It comes at an awkward part of the tech tree, has a difficult eureka, doesn't give anything else good, and is a dead-end tech. Even if you could upgrade swordsman into Khevsurs, why would you ever go for military tactics over Stirrups and just build a knight army.
 
UWHabs said:
But I'm inclined to think that it's more of a coding thing of why they didn't "insert" them into the upgrade path. Probably set so that swordsman upgrades to Musketman (or anything that replaces a musketman), and changing that to add a second upgrade option for them would complicate things too much for them.
Click to expand...
It's not though. It'd be pretty easy to insert the Khevsur unit, for example, into the upgrade line if you wanted. Just add them as the Swordsman upgrade instead of the Musketman.
 
I can't see the units being unable to be inserted into the upgrade path because of coding. If the Moar units mod can do it, then that proves it can be done.
 
Maybe too much of an exploit.

In Civ 4, you could upgrade warriors to a lot of things like spears, axes, swords, machine guns. That would be very abusable in Civ 6 if you could say make warriors to upgrade to anything.

I just think they need to reduce unit costs mid and late game and just take the bat to upgrades. Maybe double the base upgrade cost and reduce professional army to 20% The current "build all the army you need in ancient/classical" just feels pretty unnatural.

Also maybe Military Tactics could use an extra wonder or two?
 
This unit represents everything that is wrong with unique units, and Firaxis' inability to balance anything. I mean, unit was ADDED with the expansion! They intentionally added the worst unit in the game 18 months in!
 
Pietato said:
This unit represents everything that is wrong with unique units, and Firaxis' inability to balance anything. I mean, unit was ADDED with the expansion! They intentionally added the worst unit in the game 18 months in!
Click to expand...

It's part of the reason I hope the final expansion for Civ 6 is developed under new leadership. Someone who will carry forward the best of the design aspects Beach and crew have implemented, but who also recognizes and fixes the problems caused by some of the less effective design decisions.
 
Softly said:
I agree with what people are posting but lets not lose sight of the fact that even if Khevsurs were upgrade-able they still wouldn't be worth much. Military Tactics is absolutely awful. It comes at an awkward part of the tech tree, has a difficult eureka, doesn't give anything else good, and is a dead-end tech. Even if you could upgrade swordsman into Khevsurs, why would you ever go for military tactics over Stirrups and just build a knight army.
Click to expand...

What if you didn't have Iron?
 
Leathaface said:
What if you didn't have Iron?
Click to expand...

Then you go Military Engineering to find niter, or if worse comes to worse, pike and shot.

I guess you could pick up military tactics along the way, to upgrade spears but even in that case khevsurs would be a distraction.
 
Leathaface said:
That's odd. IIRC you can upgrade from Spearmen to AT Crew.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that training's a lot easier than teaching them how to march around shoulder-to-shoulder carrying long heavy weapons.

"Point this end away from you, not towards you, when you pull this trigger. Don't mess that up and you're good to go."

"Cool. What do I do with this old spear I've been carrying around for the past 1500 years?"

"Beats me. You could bury it if it was a javelin, or a halberd. But we never did figure out those halberd things."
 
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