Why Marathon?

[sendos]

Rodrigoq could be using that worker kidnapping tactic, which might explain the early DoW.

By the way, at the start of a marathon game, what is the ideal build order? Is it the same as standard speed? Also, I'm imagining the Shoshone utterly owning at Marathon games. Grab a ruin, free tech (save 50 turns or something on research), grab a ruin, CB upgrade, grab a ruin, faith bonus (not enough to grab a pantheon), grab a ruin, another tech...something like that.

 

[glider1]

Right that could explain it. Another thing is that marathon difficulty is two levels down so that deity = emperor. Reason is that the marathon combat AI once spent, cannot replace it's units quickly enough and that makes ii easier for a human to make combat work on marathon.

That said, if deity could produce interesting diverse games on marathon (sort of equal to emperor on standard), I'll have to give it a try!

 

[Beaver79]

Right that could explain it. Another thing is that marathon difficulty is two levels down so that deity = emperor. Reason is that the marathon combat AI once spent, cannot replace it's units quickly enough and that makes ii easier for a human to make combat work on marathon.

That said, if deity could produce interesting diverse games on marathon (sort of equal to emperor on standard), I'll have to give it a try!

It said my comment had to be at least 5 characters long but all I really wanted to say was.

bs

 

[glider1]

Good one Beaver could you be a bit more specific? I'm truly interested in your reasons. I would try deity on marathon myself but it's a big commitment in time so other peoples deity-marathon experiences are useful.
Thanks

 

[Prof. Platypus]

For me it feels more historically accurate and i can really carve out a story with my game.

 

[Daneh]

Well i have always played marathon on deity up till like 1-2 month ago and i have to say that its not that much easier than standard, it's actually only easier if you go for some kind of domination and the most players dont do that accordign to my knowledge. So the usual going for tall SV could be harder due to more time for the AI to kill you, because if you go tall and dont have sufficient defense you need much more turns to prepare for it (if you dont have composites and the enemy has you are going to have a bad time, not to say about zulu lol, once i near killed him early (left him 1-2 cities out of 4) then when he got impis i was having a hard time for a long time)

Also my reason for playing marathon is that it is/was more enjoyable for me because
1, it is historically more accurate
2, There is more time to "enjoy" your UU and UA (units dont obsolate so fast)
3, You actually have the chance to build some wonders early because the time allows you to focus on production more easily (i got the GL on deity marathon more than once because i actually had 2-3 worker at the time and could chop trees not like on standard)
4, it feels more epic because it actually feels like time is going slowly (waiting 90 turns for a world congress gives you the idea)

But ofcourse it has a disadvantage such as you can get bored fast because everything is slow, so i found myself in most of my games warring and i enjoyed warring over peacful games much more than in a standard game. In a standard game being peacful can be intresting due to not so much wait time.

Anyway if you have the time and you are patient enough then surly try marathon, its an epic experiance.

 

[Beaver79]

Good one Beaver could you be a bit more specific? I'm truly interested in your reasons. I would try deity on marathon myself but it's a big commitment in time so other peoples deity-marathon experiences are useful.
Thanks

I was grumpy last night and I apologize. I took it as you saying I was a terrible player because I play on marathon.

Warfare is definitely an advantage on marathon, but it's the only one I can think of. The only thing I find harder about marathon would be getting ruins. Since it takes you 13 - 15 turns to get a scout out and the AI starts with them, I usually get 2 civs bumping into my capital before I can get one out. I get maybe 3 ruins on a standard map.

Try a marathon deity game with Washington. Open piety and then never build a shrine or a temple. That's something I could do on Emperor and win. I bet it doesn't go so well though.

 

[Rellin]

I almost always play on Standard/Standard at Emperor difficulty. I want to try a Huge/Marathon/Immortal. How many AI/CS do you guys play with on a huge marathon map?

 

[Walter R]

(England, King, Marathon, Small continents, 8/16)

So I'm playing my first (real) marathon game and it's certainly different. There is a lot more next turn clicking than usual, as I'd have expected, but it isn't detracting from the game. Only just got my first UA (Longbow), recently built Unis, still in Medieval and it's been hundreds of turns. I seemed to be in Ancient for ages and it will take me a while to get used to workers taking so long to complete tile improvements. Was in a phoney war with Monty for hundreds of turns (i.e. every 20 turns or so he would send 1/2 units to a choke and I in turn would help reduce his fixed costs), and I haven't met anyone else although I know that no-one is a total runaway yet; and I'm top tech with my three cities. Will keep you posted (ocasionally!)

(Update)
So the world changed for me once I got to Astronomy! Once I had a couple of caravels I quickly met everyone else. Askia was starting to run away by then (not something I've often seen), and although I was allegedly top tech he kept building wonders just before I finished the requisite tech. So I spent about 60 turns building some SOTL and went and had a long war with him - once I captured Gao I was more or less top dog. Since then I've captured a good deal of real estate including some capitals and am well positioned to complete a Dom victory. Just wiped out Greece to free up some CSs, and my best buddies are Monty and Oda.
Still don't like the long build times but I have to say it's very immersive, so when I finally win this one my next game will also be marathon.

 

[glider1]

How many AI/CS do you guys play with on a huge marathon map?

Since last night I've started a marathon game on huge->continents->12+24 and there seems to be a nice mix between closeness and sufficient room to expand as well. So there is nothing wrong with standard settings I think.

Well thanks to everyone who suggested a new game mode to try and so far I do like the combination of deity-marathon it's a nice change. It is very true that there is plenty to do because you have to micro-manage everything, yet there is enough time to do so and still enjoy the other aspects of the game before the next era kicks in.

Here's what happened in only the first 50 moves of my first deity-marathon game:
1) Crucial turn zero decision about where to settle exactly. Love the way that in Marathon there is a tension between settling on the spot and migrating to find a better one.....

2) Instead of scout, built a second warrior and desperately went ruins hunting and looking for an early war target.

3) Declare war on Austria even though I don't know where their capital is.

4) Roam the map with 2xwarriors desperately trying to balance scouting where the neighbours are, finding ruins and finding the capital of Austria.

5) Found Austrian capital and carefully manoeuvre two warriors to pinch a worker. This required determining when exactly the worker would move from the capital to the AI's second settlement which on deity is settled within a few turns.

Comments on Deity-Marathon:
1) The fact that Deity gives the AI two settlers and a worker actually means that humans have more to do in the first 100 turns!

2) The fact that the AI settles two cities almost instantly means that humans have more chance to successfully use the worker steal.

3) Two warriors and one archer is enough to ensure that the AI's immense military power is curtailed enough for useful early diplomacy.

4) When I look at the AI code with a fine tooth comb as I have done for many weeks now, it is clear to me that there is certain AI combat behaviours that are only possible on deity because the AI actually has enough troops soon enough to engage some of the AI's early rush algorithms.

5) The negative of deity-marathon is that the AI will eventually have enormous troop numbers and combat will be a big exercise in culling AI units. However there is still some challenge in that and so it is actually fun enough.

6) I still am concerned about the AI's ability to replace it's troops quickly enough but fingers crossed.

7) Very inspiring to hear that people have actually managed to build GL wonder on deity. This means that there is some possibilities for diversity in this game mode.

 

[CaptainPatch]

4) Roam the map with 2xwarriors desperately trying to balance scouting where the neighbours are, finding ruins and finding the capital of Austria.

Because Scouts can Ignore Terrain movement costs, over the long haul they get @33% more movement than a Warrior. That is a VERY significant factor when playing on a Huge map. Further, if you're lucky enough to get a "arm themselves with improved weapons", the Scout upgrades to an Ignores Terrain Archer, while the Warrior just upgrades to Spearman. Spearmen are only marginally better than the barbarian Brutes they will be encountering more than anything else. Meanwhile, the Archers can stand off and annihilate units while usually taking NO damage while a Spearman that engages in combat will be spending quite a few turns Healing.

I highly advise building 3 Scouts ASAP. They offer the most bang-for-the-buck over the long haul, by a LARGE margin.

 

[glider1]

Thanks for the tip and it's a good point. I'm starting to think that I actually don't want to meet that many civs because I don't want them to find out that I am actually a stinking warmonger. Deity-Marathon does seem to favour those who like warfare (count me in).

Question in my mind is whether the barb spawn rate is too low on marathon? Honor policy needs barbarians to have any point....

The excellent feature about marathon is that you can play with warrior/scout/archer warfare before the trade routes put serious impediments on warfare and before the serious warmonger penalties kick in. So on marathon you are effectively getting more things happening than on standard.

 

[Buridan]

Right that could explain it. Another thing is that marathon difficulty is two levels down so that deity = emperor. Reason is that the marathon combat AI once spent, cannot replace it's units quickly enough and that makes ii easier for a human to make combat work on marathon.

That said, if deity could produce interesting diverse games on marathon (sort of equal to emperor on standard), I'll have to give it a try!

I can't agree. Atm I'm trying a Marathon/Huge on Deity. Either I'm not expanding and all the other civs are outrunning me or I'm expanding but getting a DoW and lose to their CoD.

 

[puwen]

Question in my mind is whether the barb spawn rate is too low on marathon? Honor policy needs barbarians to have any point....

I must say there is no problem with barb spawns on marathon. My favorite is to play Askia and take first in honor. Those 270g camps realy boost your econeomy by alot. I just buy anything I need, and it's realy a snowball effect. I've not had a more dominant game then Askia/huge/marathon (add in Terra for lategame camps).

Brgds puwen

 

[Walter R]

(Update)
So the world changed for me once I got to Astronomy! Once I had a couple of caravels I quickly met everyone else. Askia was starting to run away by then (not something I've often seen), and although I was allegedly top tech he kept building wonders just before I finished the requisite tech. So I spent about 60 turns building some SOTL and went and had a long war with him - once I captured Gao I was more or less top dog. Since then I've captured a good deal of real estate including some capitals and am well positioned to complete a Dom victory. Just wiped out Greece to free up some CSs, and my best buddies are Monty and Oda.
Still don't like the long build times but I have to say it's very immersive, so when I finally win this one my next game will also be marathon.

So I played my first marathon game and thoroughly enjoyed it - I'm glad I listened to the folks on the Forum who promoted playing the longer game. I'm going to play another one...

 

[cpm4001]

So I played my first marathon game and thoroughly enjoyed it - I'm glad I listened to the folks on the Forum who promoted playing the longer game. I'm going to play another one...

Yeah, Marathon speed may not be the only way to play a fun game of Civ, but it really is the only way to play an immersive game of Civ. Glad you liked it!

 

[Walter R]

Well I'm starting to get hooked on Marathon! The early game might be a bit dull (waiting for stuff to get built) if it wasn't for the barbs, but after that it's brilliant. And I totally agree it's more immersive; for instance I've only got 3 workers and there's absolutely zip chance of me automating them as I often do, as I know exactly what I want them doing for the next 100 turns or more! All your units feel more important to you...

 

[glider1]

I decided instead of marathon to try a quick 5+5 continents. Although it is also a good game mode, I find I cannot stop myself from clicking without thinking. I do that because on quick the turns come fast and there is a desire for instant gratification. On marathon, there is no such thing as instant gratification and so it encourages patience and thinking.

 

[Taberizzo]

I love playing on Epic and even more so, MARATHON. There is however one big fault in this style of game... MULTIPLAYER! If you thought the game was slow playing by yourself, going through the boring numb peroids, then wait till you try playing with others.

I played with just 2 other friends online and by the time everyone has 2 cities it becomes a drag. All it takes is that one micro manager to really kill the buzz on your long realistic game. So I'm always stuck playing on Standard or even Quick online, so it really throughs a kink in my strategy with early UU and UB civs (whom I spend hours ans hours practising with).

I'm sure there's more than a handful of guys who can handle a multiplayer game on Marathon but man it is defiantly a snooze fest.

 

[Holyhesk]

Never played on Marathon.

I'd like to know how exploring the map works. Is it easier to explore on Marathon?

I gather that a Scout still moves 2 tiles on any terrain on all game speeds. If i started a Marathon game and my first production was a scout, would the starting scout uncover 3 times as much of the map before the 2nd scout was born, than a scout in a standard game?

Also as it would take more turns for the AI to build more Cities, wouldn't that starting scout be able to uncover more land around the AI empires?