Why no hitler, stalin, churchill, or mouslini?
- Thread starter doug2134
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The leaders in Civ are usually supposed to represent some of a civilization's most sucessful leaders, not their most influential. Yeah, there are a few exceptions like Montezuma, but this is the overall trend.
Frederick the Great was an extremely important Prussian leader who led the country during what was probably its most important war, and Germany would not exist as a nation without Bismarck. There is no way you can make a case for Hitler being more important or sucessful than either of those two.
Stalin (not sure why you have included him as a fascist) was also a poor leader, he miscalculated by making a pact with Hitler and not preparing for the inevitable betrayal, and his economic policies led to widespread famine. I can see someone arguing for better leaders than Catherine or Peter, but there are many who deserve to be there before Stalin.
Churchill . . . I don't understand why you grouped him with the fascists. I've got no arguement against why he shouldn't be in the game, other than the fact that there are a large number of great English leaders who he had to compete with.
As for Mussolini, the Romans do not equal the Italians. The modern Italian nation is in no way the same ethnic people as the ancient Romans, they are in fact a mix of the various barbarian groups which overran the Western Roman Empire. Neither are they politically or culturally related to the Romans at all. Mussolini therefore could never be in the game as his civ is not. If you insist on labeling the Romans as Italians, than there are hundreds of better leaders than Mussolini, including but not limited to: Scipio Africanus, Pompey, Augustus, Claudius, Vespasian, Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius, Constantine, Justinian, and Julian.
In short, even if it were completely PC to put the Axis leaders in the game, there would be no reason to whatsoever, as they were terrible leaders.
Frederick the Great was an extremely important Prussian leader who led the country during what was probably its most important war, and Germany would not exist as a nation without Bismarck. There is no way you can make a case for Hitler being more important or sucessful than either of those two.
Stalin (not sure why you have included him as a fascist) was also a poor leader, he miscalculated by making a pact with Hitler and not preparing for the inevitable betrayal, and his economic policies led to widespread famine. I can see someone arguing for better leaders than Catherine or Peter, but there are many who deserve to be there before Stalin.
Churchill . . . I don't understand why you grouped him with the fascists. I've got no arguement against why he shouldn't be in the game, other than the fact that there are a large number of great English leaders who he had to compete with.
As for Mussolini, the Romans do not equal the Italians. The modern Italian nation is in no way the same ethnic people as the ancient Romans, they are in fact a mix of the various barbarian groups which overran the Western Roman Empire. Neither are they politically or culturally related to the Romans at all. Mussolini therefore could never be in the game as his civ is not. If you insist on labeling the Romans as Italians, than there are hundreds of better leaders than Mussolini, including but not limited to: Scipio Africanus, Pompey, Augustus, Claudius, Vespasian, Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius, Constantine, Justinian, and Julian.
In short, even if it were completely PC to put the Axis leaders in the game, there would be no reason to whatsoever, as they were terrible leaders.
doug2134 said:
As another poster pointed out, England already has a lot of leaders who may be more deserving, although Churchill did make the final shortlist of a recent 'Great Englishperson' poll on TV here. He was a great war-time leader, and a great politician but he's also synonymous with the final collapse of the British Empire and is probably still a bit too fresh in the memory.
Sorceresss
Witch
Sean Connery could be a great Scottish leader.
Sorceresss
Witch
Jimbo30 said:
Why don't you start by invading England and enslaving Liz & Camilla ?
Sorceresss
Witch
Jimbo30 said:
Yesss : please delete Céline Dion. Pleazzze.
Sorceresss
Witch
Kolyana said:
You're soooo right : she's a Dominatrix, and Charles is her pet.
GenericKen
Not at all suspicious
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Stalin's not in the game. Mao is a tricky choice, especially if Firaxis wants to sell well in China, but at least his country came out on top after the butchery and suffering.
opticaljim
Warlord
Unless, of course you were a young American Vice President name Dan Quayle.
Was Hitler any less a butcher than Kublai Khan?
I would guess that Hitler would still be considered highly offensive to everyone but I wonder why there isn't the same uproar for Stalin in CIV III.
Just for the sake of debate, what traits would we give Hitler?
We would have to give him Organized. The 3rd Reich was certainly that. I suppose the other trait would be Aggressive. That's pretty much what he was about.
So who is our Organized/Agressive Civ right now?
Why, it's the Japanese. Tokugawa, not Tojo.
They are not in the game because Firaxis is waaaaaay too PC and must be scared crapless of lawsuits or something.
Am I the only one that read the paragraph-long spiel in the manual about "We're sorry we had to put religion in the game to make it realistic, please dont kill us" ??
I can just see it if they put in Hitler or Stalin in an expansion: "There have been tyrants all through human history. In order to preserve this reality, we have included several very bad men in this product. Please dont be mad at us, sue us, boycott our product, or rate it M. Thx."
Heh
Am I the only one that read the paragraph-long spiel in the manual about "We're sorry we had to put religion in the game to make it realistic, please dont kill us" ??
I can just see it if they put in Hitler or Stalin in an expansion: "There have been tyrants all through human history. In order to preserve this reality, we have included several very bad men in this product. Please dont be mad at us, sue us, boycott our product, or rate it M. Thx."
Heh
Silica_Pathways
King
Stalin was in Civ3 ?Danielos said:
Really ? - Status
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