Why no hitler, stalin, churchill, or mouslini?

[RX2000]

I dont remember seeing Stalin in Civ 3.... Oh poop who was the Russian leader in 3? Its slipping my mind at the moment but I'm almost sure it wasnt Stalin. I'm picturing some old fat woman in my mind hehe. An older Catherine maybe?

 

[romelus]

I dont remember seeing Stalin in Civ 3.... Oh poop who was the Russian leader in 3? Its slipping my mind at the moment but I'm almost sure it wasnt Stalin. I'm picturing some old fat woman in my mind hehe. An older Catherine maybe?

yeah catherine. the old and scary fear factor version

 

[Crdnl Richelieu]

"Sean Connery would be a great Scottish leader"

I'd rather have a leader who liked his country enough to actually live there.

 

[Bain]

The poll suggests Stalin, not Hitler

Bismarck is Hitler anyways.

Just for the sake of debate, what traits would we give Hitler?

His traits are industrious / expansive

 

[Indiemonkey]

But you could get Stalin as a Great Leader (I forget what the proper name is - the guys that let you build Armies) - I remember I played a game as Russia and got Peter the Great and Stalin as army leaders. I kind of wondered about Churchill... since there's kind of a gender disparity with leaders with regard to some countries - i'd thought it might be more like civ2... but i guess that's not always possible (Martha Washington anyone?)

 

[Jack Naples]

Mao is a tricky choice, especially if Firaxis wants to sell well in China, but at least his country came out on top after the butchery and suffering.

"Let China sleep. For when China wakes, it will shake the world." Napoleon.

China is a natural superpower and is indeed coming out on top despite Mao's trail of destruction. His deeds actually have an official approval rating of 70% good, 30% bad in China, not that most of the populace would dare say a bad word about him. As long as Firaxis avoids realism, Mao would be a welcome leader in Mainland China, but since both PRC and ROC approve of Sun Yat-Sen, maybe he should be a leader instead.

 

[zafyro]

German choosen leaders fit better to me than hitler. Also you don´t want another agressive trait one.

Mussolini was not even a great leader, and cannot compare in influence with any roman emperor.

Stalin well, he had influence he coud have been included but i think that, again he would have get the agressive trait and you don´t want every nation be remembered by his agresive leaders.

About churchil... England has been ruled by far too many great leaders and it´s more remembered by it´s queens than anything else so the choice is quite good. Also the leaders are chosen from the nations golden ages... Neither of the aforementioned participated in such events...

 

[Colossian]

what traits would we give Hitler?

We would have to give him Organized. The 3rd Reich was certainly that. I suppose the other trait would be Aggressive. That's pretty much what he was about.

So who is our Organized/Agressive Civ right now?

Good Idea.

 

[Robi D]

Why do people insist on having hitler in the game? I don't care about PC, I just don't think he should be in the game because he wasn't a great leader or even a good one. Ok he pulled Germany out of their depression to begin with, even controlled most of europe at one point, but all this lasted less than a decade and it all came crashing down and left germany in a worse position then when he started. Apart from a WW2 scenario he doesn't deserve to be in the game because germany has had many leaders that were better than him.

 

[ferenginar]

Sean Connery could be a great Scottish leader.

Yeah, and the Scottish Civ would be forced to build Holyrood, and it would cost 10 times as much as stated in civpedia, and bankrupt the civ for 50 years.

 

[CVDon]

We should have all the above mentioned leaders, but include an additional factor.

Hitler: +1 happy face in all cities if Government is Fascism (ditto Mousilini). Or +10% hammers and +1 experience for military units. Something like that.

Bismark: +1 happy face in all cities if Legal is Nationalism, or something like that.

Stalin: +10% hammers, -1 happy face if economy is Communism.

(Edit to add PS: If Scottland invades Canada the US will have to attack Scottland. It's the Munroe Doctrine. Nothing personal.)

 

[opticaljim]

(Edit to add PS: If Scottland invades Canada the US will have to attack Scottland. It's the Munroe Doctrine. Nothing personal.)

Actually, the Monroe doctrine was eradicated as a result of the Cuban Missile Crisis. That was the USSR's intent. They knew if they put missiles in Cuba it would force the US to compromise and allow them a presense in Cuba.

It has always been curious to me that Kennedy was considered a hero for his actions during the Cuban Missile Crisis when it played right into the USSR's hands. My opinion? It was choreographed.

By the way, I was born in Edinburgh, Scotland.

 

[DemonDeLuxe]

It´s a little strange that Civ-games can include butchers like Mao and Stalin and not Hitler. But I guess nobody would like to play the German civ if he was in charge...

Ah, but no. Everybody likes to be "evil incarnate" once in a while. That's why, e.g., "Black and White" had the option of you being an evil god, no? And since nothing makes you more evil than being evil AND a loser, Hitler would be ideally suited.

Seriously, however, I wouldn't find the idea of people playing Hitler and building a successful, glorious empire with him in CIV too amusing. It would be a different story if the leader personalities were keyed to certain civics being barred (like it was in SMAC). This way, at least SOME of the obvious disadvantages of certain political systems would be apparent. You want to play Hitler? Forget about "Free speech", then (and accept a drop in GP production). CIV always had a tendency of teaching "morale", so why not that way? People will build fascist mods anyway, so they might just as well included officially - if done right.

 

[Bain]

We should have all the above mentioned leaders, but include an additional factor.

Hitler: +1 happy face in all cities if Government is Fascism (ditto Mousilini). Or +10% hammers and +1 experience for military units. Something like that.

Bismark: +1 happy face in all cities if Legal is Nationalism, or something like that.

Stalin: +10% hammers, -1 happy face if economy is Communism.

(Edit to add PS: If Scottland invades Canada the US will have to attack Scottland. It's the Munroe Doctrine. Nothing personal.)

I don't like the idea of tieing certain leaders with governments.

 

[Astax]

Why no hitler, stalin, churchill, or mouslini? Dont get me wrong the fasiscts arnt great people but they are pivital world leaders, anyone know why they are left out of the game?

I don't know if you can make a case for these leaders being the greatest. True they have accomplished a lot but they had almost 99% backing of their people. Who can go wrong with that? Either way the lines had to ahve been drawn somewhere. I dont think Mouslini was a great leader personally, plus Italy isn't a civ, Rome is. Eitehrway if they went with the angle you describe, this wouldnt be Civilization 4, which woudl be War World 2. And that's not what this game is. Thou I would welcome a WW2 mod, why not.

 

[Astax]

I don't like the idea of tieing certain leaders with governments.

I agree, this thread went from discussion on leaders, to totally changing the game mechanics... Wow some people just have terrible A.D.D. The whole idea behind leaders is that their traits are generic and interchangible.

 

[MikeH]

Churchill wasn't a leader of England, he was the Prime Minister of Great Britain. In the past games Firaxis have been pretty good with picking English leaders, although they appear to have dropped the ball with Vicky.

Likewise Stalin wasn't Russian and Hitler wasn't German. Rememeber Austria's greatest success is convincing the world that Hitler was German and Mozart was Austrian .

 

[MattJek]

Churchill wasn't a leader of England, he was the Prime Minister of Great Britain. In the past games Firaxis have been pretty good with picking English leaders, although they appear to have dropped the ball with Vicky.

Likewise Stalin wasn't Russian and Hitler wasn't German. Rememeber Austria's greatest success is convincing the world that Hitler was German and Mozart was Austrian .

Yeah Stalin and Hitler weren't Russian or German but they were leaders of those nations.

 

[xGBox]

Personally, I think leaders like these will be added in due time. Civilization will won't be going away for a long time and I'm sure there will be much more leaders and civilizations to choose from.

Actually, I think we can have them sooner than we thought. It seems like you can modify pretty much anything in this game.

 

[Roxinante]

Winston Churchill; English

Agressive

"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half."

"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

Philosophical

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

"Politics is the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen"

Special Unit:
Commando: Gunpowder unit, automatic Commando promotion, replaces Rifleman