why redcoats are the best unque units

[lord_graywolfe]

Praetorians can be taken down with Shock Axemen. The same cannot be said of Redcoats.

redcoats can be taken out with grenadiers with pinch.

 

[Sisiutil]

Regarding Grenadiers versus Redcoats...

My friend Krikkitone posted the way this works in my Qin ALC thread:

Total Bonus for Defender-Bonuses for Attacker
apply this to the Defender.
If the amount is negative then divide by 1+the negative bonus

Lemme see if I can work this out. Everyone is free to correct me if I'm doing this wrong.

Grenadiers versus Redcoats(both unpromoted), Grenadier attacks
Defender bonus: +25% versus gunpowder
Attacker bonus: +50% versus riflemen
25% - 50% = -25%
12 v 16(/1+25%) = 12 v 12.8

Redcoats versus Grenadiers (both unpromoted), Redcoat attacks
Defender bonus: +50% versus riflemen
Attacker bonus: +25% versus gunpowder
50% - 25% = 25%
16 v 12(1+25%) = 16 v 15

So it's a pretty even matchup, with a very slight edge to the Redcoats each time. Throw in some typical promotions and other bonuses:

Redcoats versus Grenadiers (both with Combat I & Pinch), Redcoat fortified in city with 0% cultural defense bonus, Grenadier attacks
Defender bonus: +50% versus gunpowder, +10% strength, +25% fortify bonus
Attacker bonus: +50% versus riflemen, +10% strength, +25% versus gunpowder
85% - 85% = 0%
12 v 16

Grenadiers versus Redcoats (both with Combat I & Pinch), Grenadier fortified in city with 0% cultural defense bonus, Redcoat attacks
Defender bonus: +50% versus riflemen, +25% versus gunpowder, +10% strength, +25% fortify bonus
Attacker bonus: +50% versus gunpowder, +10% strength
85% - 60% = 25%
16 v 12(1+25%) = 16 v 15

So in a more typical scenario the Redcoat is even stronger on defense, and unchanged when attacking.

There are several other scenarios possible, of course, such as City Garrison promotions, City Raider promotions preserved thanks to upgrades, and, of course, collateral damage, which makes a lot of this academic. Interesting nonetheless.

 

[_alphaBeta_]

I believe grenadiers only get their rifleman bonus when they attack. A redcoat attacking a grenadier is a slaughter.

 

[Sisiutil]

I believe grenadiers only get their rifleman bonus when they attack. A redcoat attacking a grenadier is a slaughter.

I believe you're right, in which case:

Redcoats versus Grenadiers (both unpromoted), Redcoat attacks
Defender bonus: none
Attacker bonus: +25% versus gunpowder
16 v 12(/1+25%) = 16 v 9.6

or

Grenadiers versus Redcoats (both with Combat I & Pinch), Grenadier fortified in city with 0% cultural defense bonus, Redcoat attacks
Defender bonus: +25% versus gunpowder, +10% strength, +25% fortify bonus
Attacker bonus: +50% versus gunpowder, +10% strength
60% - 60% = 0%
16 v 12

 

[lord_graywolfe]

no the grenadier still gets it on defense. the units that dont get the bonuses on defense say in their discription that unit does not get defesive bonuses. which the grenadiers dont say.

 

[acidsatyr]

granadier from aggresive civ wins on open.

 

[Howitzah]

This is my Top 5 Units.

1) Praetorians. My favorite unit, an early rush can grab a huge amount of land for you, possibly marginalizing the competition for the rest of the game.

2) Cossacks. Practically any game I play as Catherine is conquest, so if I rush to Cossacks, I can dominate the game for a good 500 turns (I play Marathon only) Afterward, you'll have a huge force of upgraded Gunships.

3) Redcoats. I put these below Cossacks because of the movement point. The mid-game terror, if you have a good force of City Raider Macemen to upgrade you will be unstoppable.

4) Keshiks. Highly under-rated, I think. A large force can wipe any early Civ from the map, and a group of 3 can pillage a small Civ to the point of them being worthless.

5) Fast Workers. I'm big on saving a turn every chance I get. The effect seems small but being able to move onto a forest and work it on the same turn can really add up.

 

[Pbhead]

2) Cossacks. Practically any game I play as Catherine is conquest, so if I rush to Cossacks, I can dominate the game for a good 500 turns (I play Marathon only) Afterward, you'll have a huge force of upgraded Gunships.

yummy! i put that one first and fast workers second.

 

[Heav]

no the grenadier still gets it on defense. the units that dont get the bonuses on defense say in their discription that unit does not get defesive bonuses. which the grenadiers dont say.

Grenadier gets bonus vs. rifleman only if they attack, quote: 50% attack vs. rifleman, not 50% vs. rifleman.

 

[limaike]

No, Jaguar Warriors are the best. They are so cool looking and you can put them on jungle squares and be proud that no unit but an axeman can take them off.

So true

 

[kristopherb]

mounted units are to weak for me

jagaurs are underated the beat macemen

 

[FoxTrot12]

Praetorians are most definetly the best Ancient Era units.
Redcoats are pretty good.
Quechas suck from what I've heard, I've never played with them.
I forgot everything I know about Cossacks, so don't look at me.
How do you change your picture/avatar and signature?

 

[Sisiutil]

Where did you hear that Quechuas suck? They're an excellent early rush unit, especially since they have a bonus against the AI's favourite early defender.

The most universally despised unit seems to be the Aztec Jaguar, especially since it's weaker than the generic unit it replaces. They are colourful and fun to watch, however.

 

[drkodos]

Praetorians are most definetly the best Ancient Era units.
Redcoats are pretty good.
Quechas suck from what I've heard, I've never played with them.
I forgot everything I know about Cossacks, so don't look at me.
How do you change your picture/avatar and signature?

Impi's are better than Praets.

Shock promoted Axes will take out Praets easily. Against a weak game engine Praets may seem good. Against a powerful human player, they are not too fearsome.


Redcoats come far too late to be game breaking. Grenadiers with Pinch promotion pimp smack them into the great beyond.

 

[FoxTrot12]

Oh, I guess my sources are wrong.
Yeah, Jaguars are awful. It's funny how Montezuma always shows up in a standard game and bothers you. Then you kill him.

 

[FoxTrot12]

I don't play online against humans, so I don't really know.
I don't like Impi's, they are kind of inconsistent. You seem find until BAM! you hit a city with a bunch of axemen.
The only bad thing about praetorians is if your enemy happens to have a lot of axemen.
Fast workers suck.
It's funny when a grenadier fights, the animation is funny.

 

[drkodos]

It's funny when a grenadier fights, the animation is funny.

They remind me of my sister trying to throw a baseball.

 

[FoxTrot12]

Gwa ha ha ha!
If only NAVY Seals didn't come late... they look so cool and aren't all that bad.