Why research Infernal Pact?

[Halancar]

Well, so far every time I've summoned the infernals it was to switch to them, and my first act afterwards was to give my former civilization the wisdom they lusted for by teaching them the folly of summoning Hyborem when you are relying on warriors to defend your cities It's just too tempting. And I imagine it is the same for the AI : a civ that races for the Ashen Veil is probably underdefended militarily and a very tempting target. And everybody else hates it if it switches to Ashen Veil (since nobody else will have that religion), so...

How about this instead : the civ that founds the Ashen Veil gets a unique unit with a "Summon the Infernals" ability. Then that civ can move the unit into a place of its choosing and trigger the ability, summoning Hyborem in the most inconvenient spot for the civ's enemies that it can safely reach...

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

I like it.
1. In my game Dis was founded in the least spot I would want it to, in the middle of my old civ surrounded with culture massing cities so it had only 2 squares of a small see in its cultural borders [I moved the palace to the capital of the firsts conquered city, the capital of Hannah the Irin ]
2. You could direct the Deamon to your neighbours more easly. From what ppl are writing he behaves stupid. It would also be a good way to condemn him if you do not want to switch and want to kill him your self.

This would require some restrictions thou. The unit would spawn Dis and Hyborem after 20 turns wherever it is so players would not keep it forever holding the deamon and unleashing it as they fit.[if on a ship it would have to create an island and add some ships to Hyborems starting army] The unleashing of the daemon would destroy any city near it so the summoning player would have to get rid of it.
If you kill the unit that can bring the daemon to the world then you only gain control of it and the clock of 20 turns is reseated so you have a chance of sending him away. [by realising it would still ask first the player who found the AV if he wants to switch to control him, if not then the controller of that 'blood gem keeper(?)']

Hmmm, I will go even farther and say that first when AV is founded you receive a 'Blood Gem Keeper' who can be sacrificed to found Dis and release Hyborem. After that every one who will kill Hyborem would grant a the 'Blood Gem' and after 20 turns it would spawn Hyborem again damaging the gem keeper![not spawning Dis offcourse]
The only way to kill him would be to sacrifice him on the Altar. This would fix the Altar victory cause if you want to win the game you have to sacrifice Hyborem on it to win.

Cmments?

 

[Lord Yanaek]

<edit> Nice ideas from Valis but still it won't help the AI release Hybo smartly.

But then you might just as well never summon them. And the AI will probably not know how to use this unit.

I would rather have Hybo and his summoner get a nice diplo bonus (+4 or even +6 - both way). It would make it unlikely for hybo to attack his summoner, at least if his AI script doesn't make him do stupid things like attack the civ that is helping him against the pesky elves for no reason!

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

You would have to otherwise it will self explode after the 20 turns. The 20 turns can be adjusted by the AC also.

 

[jonottawa]

I played a game where I raced to Infernal Pact and kept my old civ. Basium came soon thereafter and declared on us both. While Basium and his Angels pounded on me, Hyborem just ran and hid. Meanwhile, Hell was decimating my productivity. No thanks. It's almost impossible to construct a scenario where it's to your advantage to summon Hyborem if you don't want to switch to him.

On the flip side, it's dumb that he always pops up next to his summoning Civ, since if you DO switch to him, wouldn't you logically disband ALL of your units the turn before you discover the Veil?

Maybe you could sacrifice a bunch of semi-powerful units to summon Hyborem. And then have him banish your leader and take over your civilization when he arrives. Probably not feasible from a technical standpoint, but it would be way cooler than the status quo.

 

[Morganknight]

Perhaps a "Diablo" -like possession, as Hyborem literally rips out of the body of his summoner.

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

On the flip side, it's dumb that he always pops up next to his summoning Civ, since if you DO switch to him, wouldn't you logically disband ALL of your units the turn before you discover the Veil?

That were my thoughts exacly when I summoned him and switched. I could take over the whole civ only with manes.

Nice ideas from Valis but still it won't help the AI release Hybo smartly.

I do not think the script for that would be hard. Just point the AI that the 'Gem Keeper' is meant to go to the toughest opponent that is in range of 20 turns or go out sde your cultural borders if there is no opponent in range. Somehow the AI knows how to place cities so just copy and modify that script for this purpose.

Combining the release of the Infernals from the gem with AC would bring a variable to the game. Let it be "100-AC" So you would get lot of time to research 'Sacrifice the meak' before you release him ,but if the AC is higher then the doom is closer. Also if the AC is higher then the Altar victory would be much harder to accomplish. Hyborem respawning every 10-15 turns if it is 85-90, that would be hard to transport him [assuming the transporting unit{that one which killed him} is damaged while spawning so you could not so easly set a trap for him] Hmmm, make it '(100-AC)/2'.
Imagine a scenario that you transport it safely to your opponent and have all planed out, you count the turns to the 'big bang' and somewhere in the world some one razed 2 cities. The AC goes up and you end with the hand in the cookie jar :] Wouldn't that be interesting? Demonish?

I must say I am in love with my idea of the great demon hunt in the Altar Victory condition

Perhaps a "Diablo" -like possession, as Hyborem literally rips out of the body of his summoner.

That is were my idea comes from :]

 

[Gutus]

I have got another idea.

Why not give the Hyborem something like Balseraphs gypsies. They could then go and spread the cult of deamons to other civs. They could build some "Secret cult" buildings in other civs cities, where each cult could have had a small chance of spawning (1-2% per turn, or less) a deamon, which could then start razing your enemy land. You could not control him (the cult would be sacrificed in the process). Of course other civs should have something to defend with (like inqusitors, paladins, or special "Religious police" buildings to stop these cults to spread). Each deamon spawned would increase the AC.