I still play MOO2, and am greatful that WinXP only makes it slightly creaky. After all I've heard from people who've bought MOO3, I wouldn't take the time to play it if I got it free. I was extremely eager for this game to come out, and when it finally did . . . man.
Why should i buy Master of Orion III
- Thread starter SunTzu
- Start date
BlueBomberDude
Chieftain
Some people do thoroughly enjoy MOO3... I haven't become one of them but there are lots of people on the Atari boards that claim it is great if you give it a chance.
Borg
Chieftain
I'm one who's in favour of MOO3 and think it's one of the "deepest" games around.
The MAJOR reason that so many people don't like it though is that the game has a steep learning curve and there's absolutely NO MANUAL worthy of that name.
If there had been a better explanation how everything works this game might have been n°1 for a lot of people.
Today people are still not 100% sure what Development Plans exactly do, how they work and how they should be used to max efficiency.
Thàt situation is unacceptable.
A game, as complex as MOO3 , simply MUST have a good manual.
If we just could have had a "Civilopedia" in MOO3 ......
The MAJOR reason that so many people don't like it though is that the game has a steep learning curve and there's absolutely NO MANUAL worthy of that name.
If there had been a better explanation how everything works this game might have been n°1 for a lot of people.
Today people are still not 100% sure what Development Plans exactly do, how they work and how they should be used to max efficiency.
Thàt situation is unacceptable.
A game, as complex as MOO3 , simply MUST have a good manual.
If we just could have had a "Civilopedia" in MOO3 ......
Alixanther
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2004
- Messages
- 3
Both MOO and MOO2 had a full, comprehensive manual integrated right there in the game. Besides having all possible questions asked in advance, you could always right-click on ANYTHING and be prompted a dialog box offering you help regarding that particular object in the game. MOO3 is arguably more complex than MOO2, but having 1. many hamperings of the AI when trying to get the control over and 2. lots of unintelligible and indiscriminate stuff then that ends being less. I prefer to have 3 choices to make than 300 AI-able configurations to endure, because it's ME who wants to play the game, not the computer. Since I've payed the money, then I'm not going to watch the damn computer enjoying it. Make IT bring the money up, then IT can play and enjoy it as much as IT pleases. It's significant most of those who said they liked it NEVER played the series before. Having such a lame start doesn't put them into a position of preaching us what to think about the 3rd part. At first, there are too many interface-problems, as underlined by too many users before me: click here, click there, select task force, select type, select this, select that, browse an Excel- or Word-type list (they could have done it at least more graphic in appearance!) then pop! - you have a task force! Wow! What a thrill! I'm pleased to report a HUGE bug: why bother deploy task forces in advance along your borders, then watch them crawl at a sluggish speed through the galaxy, when you could sit and comportably wait for an attack to be made by the enemy forces then deploy as many task forces as you see fit (since you can detect an enemy fleet at least 2 turns in advance, I cannot see why not using it...) All you have to do is having a particular item (mobilisation center) built on any planet of each system, then voila!
The combat is horrible, I've never seen something worse in my whole life! The combat area is a huge black spot; I remember playing "battleship" at school when young using a pencil and an eraser. My schetches ressembled a lot those "spaceships". Keep you map small, and you'll never know what's going on; scroll it down, and you'll have to push your mouse hundreds of times in order to meet the enemy ships (which, by the way, you'll rarely see face to face since most of the projectiles and beams either come on or get out of your - black, as I said - screen). Sometimes even the combat went over before I could realise it: either my missiles or his completely destroyed the opposite force. Most horrendous change: the combat isn't turn-based anymore. It is REAL TIME. Yeah, baby!!! I've seen plenty of ****ty Star-Trek productions having real time battles which popped up once then fell down into the abyss that created them. Why they always choose the unpopular way of doing things, anyway?
I even hate the star-lane concept. If properly implemented (a lane linking two galaxies) this could have worked. But you have lanes that link star systems (in a manner that reminds me wormholes) and they end by being so numerous (they designed it as being the "proper" way of exploring the Universe) even on the lowest option. If I choose not to use a lane, that particular spaceship could have not travelled the "space" between two star systems by the time a game has already been over. I always thought a game is something that offers you options. This game only offers you limitations. Try driving your car with your hand-brake ON. You'll end having a much pleasant experience than playing MOO3.
The combat is horrible, I've never seen something worse in my whole life! The combat area is a huge black spot; I remember playing "battleship" at school when young using a pencil and an eraser. My schetches ressembled a lot those "spaceships". Keep you map small, and you'll never know what's going on; scroll it down, and you'll have to push your mouse hundreds of times in order to meet the enemy ships (which, by the way, you'll rarely see face to face since most of the projectiles and beams either come on or get out of your - black, as I said - screen). Sometimes even the combat went over before I could realise it: either my missiles or his completely destroyed the opposite force. Most horrendous change: the combat isn't turn-based anymore. It is REAL TIME. Yeah, baby!!! I've seen plenty of ****ty Star-Trek productions having real time battles which popped up once then fell down into the abyss that created them. Why they always choose the unpopular way of doing things, anyway?
I even hate the star-lane concept. If properly implemented (a lane linking two galaxies) this could have worked. But you have lanes that link star systems (in a manner that reminds me wormholes) and they end by being so numerous (they designed it as being the "proper" way of exploring the Universe) even on the lowest option. If I choose not to use a lane, that particular spaceship could have not travelled the "space" between two star systems by the time a game has already been over. I always thought a game is something that offers you options. This game only offers you limitations. Try driving your car with your hand-brake ON. You'll end having a much pleasant experience than playing MOO3.
Babbler said:
Some of the appeal might be nostolgia, as it's a very low tech game by today's standards and new players might not get sucked in. But the interface is very smooth, the various empires are cool, the combat is fun for those of us to old too handle real time, it's fun to customize, build and update warships, the internal documentation is excellent (I haven't played in several months but if I recall correctly right clicking on almost anything gives you detailed information). This is a totally inadequate response, I'll try again when I've had some sleep.
Swooping Hawk
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2004
- Messages
- 24
I think MOO3 is OK (but just OK). It's certainly no MOO2, and shouldn't carry the MOO title at all. They should have just called it 3.
You have to realise that it's not the same game. Later in the game micromanagement becomes impossible. The only way to play is to let the governer do it for you and try to adapt to the inefficiency. The AI will still do stupid things, for example: building system-colony ships in systems that are already fully colonized.
The task forces are hard at first, but later they become useful when you have 100's (possibly 1000's) of ships. You will be disappointed by the strict organization of the task forces though. (I.e. an armada MUST have 2 recon ships and 4 escorts).
Development plans are ways to influence the AI's development of your planets, but take a lot of getting used to. Don't read the manual here, the official website forums are good places to get the info (note: the fans provide the info, not the company who have stopped supporting the game). DevPlans give priorities to different needs. A Primary setting forces the AI to build those improvements. Secondary tells them to build it as soon as more urgent needs are met, and Tertiary tell them to only build once every other need is met first. It's not perfect, but managing 100's of planets this way is faster.
One annoying thing about ship designs is that the AI will always try to build your cheaper ships first, even when capable of building them all. The better ships cost more for the same hull size, so unless your 'better' ships are in smaller hulls then you will end up with reserves of scouts and no warships. To get around this delete all ship designs except the one you want, then when your reserves run low create a new one.
The situation report (sitrep) is too hard to read, as each message takes up 1/4 of the screen, meaning you have to scroll down to read it all (and you must read it to know what the hell's going on). If you don't read these you may suddenly find that you have no spies (didn't you see the message?) or that your ships are outdated.
The AI only sends occasional attacks, although these are fairly heavy assaults. For most of the game though you will be constantly hitting the end turn button and answering your foreign diplomacy messages.
If you do feel like playing, try out the silicoids first. They only use minerals and not food, so it makes it easier to learn how to manage your production.
You have to realise that it's not the same game. Later in the game micromanagement becomes impossible. The only way to play is to let the governer do it for you and try to adapt to the inefficiency. The AI will still do stupid things, for example: building system-colony ships in systems that are already fully colonized.
The task forces are hard at first, but later they become useful when you have 100's (possibly 1000's) of ships. You will be disappointed by the strict organization of the task forces though. (I.e. an armada MUST have 2 recon ships and 4 escorts).
Development plans are ways to influence the AI's development of your planets, but take a lot of getting used to. Don't read the manual here, the official website forums are good places to get the info (note: the fans provide the info, not the company who have stopped supporting the game). DevPlans give priorities to different needs. A Primary setting forces the AI to build those improvements. Secondary tells them to build it as soon as more urgent needs are met, and Tertiary tell them to only build once every other need is met first. It's not perfect, but managing 100's of planets this way is faster.
One annoying thing about ship designs is that the AI will always try to build your cheaper ships first, even when capable of building them all. The better ships cost more for the same hull size, so unless your 'better' ships are in smaller hulls then you will end up with reserves of scouts and no warships. To get around this delete all ship designs except the one you want, then when your reserves run low create a new one.
The situation report (sitrep) is too hard to read, as each message takes up 1/4 of the screen, meaning you have to scroll down to read it all (and you must read it to know what the hell's going on). If you don't read these you may suddenly find that you have no spies (didn't you see the message?) or that your ships are outdated.
The AI only sends occasional attacks, although these are fairly heavy assaults. For most of the game though you will be constantly hitting the end turn button and answering your foreign diplomacy messages.
If you do feel like playing, try out the silicoids first. They only use minerals and not food, so it makes it easier to learn how to manage your production.
Khift
Prince
I've been looking at this whole 4X TBS genre for a little while now.
I know I'll be buying MOo2 and MOo3, simply because I can get them for $5 and $3 at my local gaming store, and I'm always up for experimentation. Even if they suck, then oh well, I can afford to live without such a small sum of money.
The question, really, is this GalCiv game... I've played through the demo twice now. I enjoyed it, yes. The problem was... it just seemed like there wasn't too much to it. Take someone over? Build a fighter, use it to kill all those colony ships the AI has in orbit, build about ten transports, and invade. Congratulations, you won. I did enjoy the events, although I was disappointed to get a couple of the same ones in a row. It just seems like it's a little one sided, and while that wouldn't be a problem if the price was like that of MOo2 and MOo3, it is a problem with it's $40 price tag.
Is it worth the money, or should I hold out until I get a better deal?
Yeah, I'm a miser with my money, but hey, it works.
I know I'll be buying MOo2 and MOo3, simply because I can get them for $5 and $3 at my local gaming store, and I'm always up for experimentation. Even if they suck, then oh well, I can afford to live without such a small sum of money.
The question, really, is this GalCiv game... I've played through the demo twice now. I enjoyed it, yes. The problem was... it just seemed like there wasn't too much to it. Take someone over? Build a fighter, use it to kill all those colony ships the AI has in orbit, build about ten transports, and invade. Congratulations, you won. I did enjoy the events, although I was disappointed to get a couple of the same ones in a row. It just seems like it's a little one sided, and while that wouldn't be a problem if the price was like that of MOo2 and MOo3, it is a problem with it's $40 price tag.
Is it worth the money, or should I hold out until I get a better deal?
Yeah, I'm a miser with my money, but hey, it works.
GalCiv bored me, but supposively the AI is intelligent. What I mean is, it studies your moves and adapts. That was one of the selling points of this game. So if you find yourself with some easy pickings early on - the AI may have a counter for it later. Again, I was bored with it so I can't verify this.
OF the 3, go with Moo2 only. I don't care if Moo3 is 50 cents, it's not worth it.
OF the 3, go with Moo2 only. I don't care if Moo3 is 50 cents, it's not worth it.
CenturionV
Warrior Forever
I'd say go with moo2 and GalCiv
GalCiv can get a bit repetative, but there is an expansion, and a good bit of mods out there if you get bored, and it still has one of the better political systems, plus cool features like multiple minor races (that can do everything a major can, except win) the combat is a little shallow, the most fun part is probably having to take care of your economy, relations, and morality, all while beating (or bribing) off the AI, its one of those games, where war is some times a VERY bad idea, and some times your only choice.
Moo2 is of course a classic and has some nice features GalCiv should have had, but does'nt (planetary bombardment, ship design, a real weapons system, etc)
I would totally avoid moo3 unless its super-cheap, as its probably not worth the money, and you would have more fun with some game like Spaceward ho! or Stars! which you can get for free (with some digging for registration codes and the like )
There is one more little known game you might want to consider, which I have bought and played, and is really quite good, its called Space Empires 4, and is some thing like the anti-galciv, focusing more on a simulation, tons of technology, ship designs, special weapons, totally modable, etc though it does tend to have a more mechanical feel to it (it lacks all the nice racial pictures, random event, Galactic news net, etc that adds to the atmosphere) if you want more of a hard space 4x wargame, then thats the way to go.
http://www.malfador.com/se4.html
GalCiv can get a bit repetative, but there is an expansion, and a good bit of mods out there if you get bored, and it still has one of the better political systems, plus cool features like multiple minor races (that can do everything a major can, except win) the combat is a little shallow, the most fun part is probably having to take care of your economy, relations, and morality, all while beating (or bribing) off the AI, its one of those games, where war is some times a VERY bad idea, and some times your only choice.
Moo2 is of course a classic and has some nice features GalCiv should have had, but does'nt (planetary bombardment, ship design, a real weapons system, etc)
I would totally avoid moo3 unless its super-cheap, as its probably not worth the money, and you would have more fun with some game like Spaceward ho! or Stars! which you can get for free (with some digging for registration codes and the like
)There is one more little known game you might want to consider, which I have bought and played, and is really quite good, its called Space Empires 4, and is some thing like the anti-galciv, focusing more on a simulation, tons of technology, ship designs, special weapons, totally modable, etc though it does tend to have a more mechanical feel to it (it lacks all the nice racial pictures, random event, Galactic news net, etc that adds to the atmosphere) if you want more of a hard space 4x wargame, then thats the way to go.
http://www.malfador.com/se4.html
man o' war
AKA Kristophski
I'm interested in getting moo3... but frankly, it doesn't seem that much beter that 2 (which i have) when i've read about it before.
S1Genocide
INVADER-ZIM
New Mods and Fixes for Moo3 can be found at:
(There are also Screenshots.)
http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/moo3/viewtopic.php?t=82
Questions for gameplay and winning can be answered here.
http://www.ina-community.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=278
My latest Mod including CodePatches is here.
INVADER-Mod 4.0 Full V1.2.5
INVADER-Mod 4.5.4 Spreadsheets & Patch Only Requires 4.0
(There are also Screenshots.)
http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/moo3/viewtopic.php?t=82
Questions for gameplay and winning can be answered here.
http://www.ina-community.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=278
My latest Mod including CodePatches is here.
INVADER-Mod 4.0 Full V1.2.5
INVADER-Mod 4.5.4 Spreadsheets & Patch Only Requires 4.0
Well, the only good thing about moo3: It was so crappy that I went back to moo2 and started with moo2 online games. 
There is the 1.4 project from LordBrazen (we use his patches on kali) to improve Moo2. Your ideas are welcome in this new forum: http://www.spheriumnorth.com/orion-forum/nfphpbb/
meisen said:
There is the 1.4 project from LordBrazen (we use his patches on kali) to improve Moo2. Your ideas are welcome in this new forum: http://www.spheriumnorth.com/orion-forum/nfphpbb/
a4phantom said:
I am running Moo2 on XP SP2, what problems are you seeing? Is it a sticky mouse?
man o' war said:
It has many issues and yes I did not play it after the last patch. I found it very very long learning curve and lots of tedious things to do. Little impact in my choices.
I did enjoy the large scale space combat. I have the patch, but have not been able talk myself into playing it as I will have to learn the game all over as it it has been so long.
barseer
Thx, I'll check it out tonight after work.
Last night I did attempt to install and run moo2 but discovered it didn't work, wouldn't even start. I had a hard drive melt down about 2 weeks ago and had to reinstal xp. The formula I posted below for getting the game to work with xp no longer worked. Looking about on the web last night, I saw one forum where someone posted that the problem was directx imcompatibility. They said the game worked with directx up to 7, but directx 8 & 9 didn't work with it. Here is the link:
http://www.masteroforion2.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=General;action=display;num=1113785056
I have not had time to try it. Not sure, but I think what has to be done is copy the orion disk to the hard drive, swap those files with the ones in windows, then burn a new cd with those changes. Didn't see any of those files in the folders the game normally downloads on install, but they are on the disk. And it is system32 rather than the system file in the windows directory that one needs to copy from.
Thx, I'll check it out tonight after work.
Last night I did attempt to install and run moo2 but discovered it didn't work, wouldn't even start. I had a hard drive melt down about 2 weeks ago and had to reinstal xp. The formula I posted below for getting the game to work with xp no longer worked. Looking about on the web last night, I saw one forum where someone posted that the problem was directx imcompatibility. They said the game worked with directx up to 7, but directx 8 & 9 didn't work with it. Here is the link:
http://www.masteroforion2.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=General;action=display;num=1113785056
I have not had time to try it. Not sure, but I think what has to be done is copy the orion disk to the hard drive, swap those files with the ones in windows, then burn a new cd with those changes. Didn't see any of those files in the folders the game normally downloads on install, but they are on the disk. And it is system32 rather than the system file in the windows directory that one needs to copy from.
I prefer the 1.4patch based on the 1.31 dos version (orion2.exe).
You wont have these issues then.
http://lordbrazen.blogspot.com/2005/01/installing-master-of-orion-ii-v140-on.html
You wont have these issues then.
http://lordbrazen.blogspot.com/2005/01/installing-master-of-orion-ii-v140-on.html
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