why spread religion?

[slo]

well I see my question started one heck of a conversation..... anyway, sorry to say but I still dont really see the big advantage of spreading the religion....you get...a small bonus for yourself, and you get more people to like you....you also help everyone else grow threw civs....
I dont know...seems like a tough choice....but thanks for all the inputs..
slo

 

[Liex]

I'm pretty sure religion spreads within a certain hex radius of a city no matter what, even to foreign cities. So you don't have a choice.

I could be wrong though.

You're right. The radius is 10 hexes.

well I see my question started one heck of a conversation..... anyway, sorry to say but I still dont really see the big advantage of spreading the religion....you get...a small bonus for yourself, and you get more people to like you....you also help everyone else grow threw civs....
I dont know...seems like a tough choice....but thanks for all the inputs..
slo

Do not worry about it, I made the same question in the past.

But as Dark_Jedi06 said, 'do not spread' your religion is usually not an option. And since you choose the follower belief (at least the first), it'll probably be more useful to yourself.

 

[SalmonSoil]

Remember that you wont be the only player in the game founding a religion. If you convert people to your religion it means they (probably) wont convert to other peoples religions. If they are going to be getting follower beliefs anyway its better that they fuel your founder beliefs and give you diplomatic advantages, rather than someone else's.

Also, your follower beliefs might not necessarily be suited to the civ receiving them. I haven't looked at much of the follower beliefs but I know that a lot of the pantheon beliefs are terrain based. If you choose one which is great for desert civs and spread it to a civ without much desert, they wont really be receiving that much of an advantage will they?

 

[Louis XXIV]

well I see my question started one heck of a conversation..... anyway, sorry to say but I still dont really see the big advantage of spreading the religion....you get...a small bonus for yourself, and you get more people to like you....you also help everyone else grow threw civs....
I dont know...seems like a tough choice....but thanks for all the inputs..
slo

I certainly think hording your religion can be an option in some circumstances, but you're also cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Bisqit]

You want other ais to have your religion because of the diplomatic advantages, you get more income from whatever follower beliefs you chose, and you dont have a choice because it spreads on its own anyway lol. The more cities you have following your religion the more you're getting from the follower beliefs you chose.

The diplomatic bonuses from religion will be huge espeically if its like civ 4. In civ 4, for example, if Isabella has a different religion than you she will almost undoubtedly declare war on you. I'm sure something similar to this will be back in Civ 5. You gain allies through religion. It's useful for many things.

 

[Raiki]

I certainly think hording your religion can be an option in some circumstances, but you're also cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I don't know, if (in this incredibly hypothetical and not supported by mechanics example) you were on a map that was 80% desert, and you managed to found the first religion, and took all the desert related or tangented benefits, I could see you holding onto it as hard as you can.

It'd be like cutting off your nose to spite everyone else's faces.


~R~

 

[Camikaze]

I also imagine there'll be cases where you don't want to spread your religion much. I mean, there'll be benefits to spreading, but it makes sense that in some cases there'll be benefits to being insular as well. In some cases that insularity might outweigh the benefits of spreading. That should make for quite a flexible system.

I think Initiation Rites sounds good, too, but it depends on how easy it is to convert other cities. By the time you get around to doing that, the 100 gold may not be worth all that much. In other situations, it might certainly be worth it. So as with the other beliefs, it'll be situational.

 

[Human Crouton]

You are actually defending his point: "The real advantage comes from which cities are denied the bonus", so why would you actually spread your religion, since that reduces the number of cities which don't get the bonus?

From what I've seen so far, the two advantages to spreading your religion are the enhancement of your founder beliefs (since they depend on the total number of followers/cities), and for diplomatics reasons (Single Player only).

I actually confused founder and follower beliefs, but after reading what you said about founder beliefs, I still think my tactic is true.

Now if there are 100 cities and I spread my religion to 99 of them, I have an advantage over the civ with the 1 city that does not have the religion, making it a good thing to spread my religion. In this scenario religion spreading is good because it gives an opponent a disadvantage.

But, I forgot about founder beliefs. Now I also get +99 of whatever my belief states. In this scenario, spreading religion is good because I get an advantage.

I see very few circumstances where you would not want to spread your religion. Religions are going to spread regardless, so you might as well make it yours.

 

[Human Crouton]

well I see my question started one heck of a conversation..... anyway, sorry to say but I still dont really see the big advantage of spreading the religion....you get...a small bonus for yourself, and you get more people to like you....you also help everyone else grow threw civs....
I dont know...seems like a tough choice....but thanks for all the inputs..
slo

Look at it this way: Have you ever seen trade magazines. These are magazines devoted to specific industries where people operating in those industries actually write articles that will help their competitors.

Why do they do this? Because they are all looking for ways decrease cost, increase profit, discover new procedures, and fight off influences from other forces(for example government regulation).

Do you have to stay competitive with the other companies subscribing to this trade magazine? Of course you do. But if there are three car companies in existence, and two of them talk, while the one you own is an isolationist, you are going to lose.

Like I said in my last post. Religion is going to spread whether you want it to or not. Make sure it's yours.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I don't know, if (in this incredibly hypothetical and not supported by mechanics example) you were on a map that was 80% desert, and you managed to found the first religion, and took all the desert related or tangented benefits, I could see you holding onto it as hard as you can.

The only desert belief I can find is a Pantheon, which I don't think transfers to other civilizations anyway. Founder beliefs usually depend on the number of people or cities that worship that religion.

I could see a situation where you are India and pick bonuses per population rather than per city. That might be beneficial to limit to just you. But if it's something like +1 gold per city, it's worth spreading to as many as possible.

It'd be like cutting off your nose to spite everyone else's faces.

Yeah, that's what I meant, but that's not a real phrase

 

[CanaDutch]

Not sure if any changes to social policies have been announced, but I think it's possible that the Piety branch may give an additional bonus to whomever founds and spreads a religion.

 

[playshogi]

Spreading religion to city-states might confer some benefit to you, plus there may be some sort of religious victory that hasn't been revealed yet.

 

[Raiki]

Spreading religion to city-states might confer some benefit to you, plus there may be some sort of religious victory that hasn't been revealed yet.

While the concept of a religious victory is intriguing, the developers have said that religion's importance begins to fade around the renaissance era. That doesn't really lend itself well to turning religion into a VC.

~R~

 

[Zenstrive]

Arab + Tithe + Machu Pichu = gold, gold everywhere!

 

[Raiki]

Yeah, that's what I meant, but that's not a real phrase

Well, *I* think it's an awesome phrase, and am going to start using it at every possible opportunity. So...yeah, just this once probably.

Arab + Tithe + Machu Pichu = gold, gold everywhere!

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing how Arabia's abilities and various parts of religion can supplement each other. I love having a strong economy, it's what gets my civ-rocks off the hardest.


~R~

 

[IcyFrozen]

Most of the founder abilities seem to be based on the number of cities with that religion, thereby increasing your pay off from the spread of the religion. Theres also a diplomatic bonus with nations with your religion, so you can get some influence as well.

I can see your point about why offer a bonus to competitor nations, but your religion will seemingly spread beyond your borders naturally, so you can either choose horrible follower beliefs that wont benefit your opponents (or you) but its possible they'll found a better one or gain another one and your no better off in the first place. Since each ability can only be choosen once per game, it makes more sense to grab the best combination for yourself and exploit it as best you can.

 

[Calapine]

Peace Loving: +1 Happiness for every 5 followers of this religion in non-enemy foreign cities
Tithe: +1 Gold for every 4 followers of this religion
World Church: +1 Culture for every 5 followers of this religion in other civilizations

I haven't played for some time, but isn't the culture bonus the weakest?
1 happiness seems to be al ot more valuable than 1 culture.

 

[Liex]

If your empire is small, you don't have unhappiness problems and are heading to a cultural victory, 'World Church' is probably a better choice. 'Peace Loving' may be a bit redundant for India, for instance.

 

[Calouste]

Regarding diplomatic benefits, keep in mind that you can only get Research Agreements in G&K with civs that you have a Declaration of Friendship with, and that it is probably going to be quite hard to get a DoF with a civ that has a different religion.

 

[Ahhuatl]

Two questions sort of along these lines

1) Do followers gain enhancer beliefs too or do they only affect the founder?

2) What is the point of accumulating faith after you've adopted all the beliefs you can? I mean suppose I do something like this:

Pantheon:
Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest

Founder:
Pilgrimage: +1 Faith for each foreign city following this religion

Follower:
Divine Inspiration: Each World Wonder provides +2 Faith in city
Holy Warriors: Use Faith to purchase pre-Industrial land units

Enhancer:
Itinerant Preachers: Religion spreads to cities 30% further away

By the time I reached the industrial era and have gotten all my beliefs, what good would faith be?