Wild Animals In Scenarios/Mods

[Ozymandias]

Both timerover51 and Blue Monkey have suggested using wild animals (smilodons, dire wolves, etc. - so many supplied by tom2050) in Terra Fantasia.

I have always found the notion intriguing, and am aware that some mods have used "nature" units (storms etc.) to good effect.

My question is: Has anyone satisfactorily used wild animals in "Epoch" games? (TF runs from the ancient through ca. 1950s technology.)

Nonetheless, I'm perplexed as to how to best, hypothetically, utilize wild animals to add enjoyment to the game. A smilodon killing off a player's first Settler would be no joy; also, at what point (i.e., Tech Level & Unit AF/DF) would/should make wild animals moot - And then what relevance would those left wandering around have?

Thanks As Always,
Oz

 

[Gojira54]

I've toyed with this a bit. There are a few ways you can go about it, and to some degree it depends on how fantastic (meaning divergent from our reality) you want to go. Some ideas:

1. Most common one I hear about is to have a Nature Civ which can do all these things. This gives you some good possibilities but if you think through all the civ-specific techs you would need, can be a real pain to implement, and limit what the other civvs can do (uses up tech slots, building slots, etc.)

2. If you are on a fixed map, you can preplace all sorts of barbarian animals. I very much like this idea. Unfortunately it is limited to premade maps, and by late game they will be all gone (but that actually mirrors our history of defeating the Great Beasts such as Mammoths and Sabre-toothed kitties, no?). You can slow down the introduction of Smilodons by having them be flagged as wheeled and trpped in a forest, when forest does not allow wheeled units to move. That way you need to either clear the forest for it to roam, or attack it on your own terms, Probably best to have it in a wide clearing surrounded by forest. When I do this tactic, I make sure said beastie is guarding some kind of rare and precious resource, to make the battle more worthwhile.

3. Have civs be able to train or pen some wild animals, only to have them escape. A lion escaped the zoo, an Elephant killed its trainer and fled the circus, that kind of thing. Only thing is that civ would control the animals behaviour, which is a little less than realistic. You can implement this by having the Dog Pound improvement generate an Escaped Chihuahua every 23 turns, or something more to your mods nomenclature.

 

[Blue Monkey]

In the spirit of dialogue rather than argument ...

1. Most common one I hear about is to have a Nature Civ which can do all these things. This gives you some good possibilities but if you think through all the civ-specific techs you would need, can be a real pain to implement, and limit what the other civvs can do (uses up tech slots, building slots, etc.)

Some work arounds I can foresee (theoretically, I'm only speculating) ...

Make it a 3 era mod & using the 4th for a separate animal time line. This would present its own set of problems, of course. RFRE uses one era as a "timer" for historical events, so there is a practical precedent for doing this kind of thing.

Give the Nature civ a parallel tech line - linear, one following after another - that moves through all 4 eras but that doesn't intersect the normal tech tree at all. The Nature tech line would have to not have any required techs that affect the other civs. I don't know how much effort the AI would put into research if it has only a linear non-required tech line, however.

A variation would be to allow the Nature civ to research the same tech tree, but be unable to advance beyond a certain point. Use a zero era "Hominin" tech as a pre-requisite for the required techs beyond that. Keep in mind that the Nature civ is not meant to be a player civ. The AI doesn't care if a tech is named "invents the wheel" or "develops flippers" - only what advantages it gives.

One example of how to make the benefits specific to Nature is this - "Nests" (a civ-specific improvement) can only be built with an "egg" resource within city limits. The "egg" resource only appears with a certain tech & "nests" autoproduce a specific animal. Autoproduction can be stopped by obsolescence, iirc. Since you are working with a fixed map by placing the resources where you want you can control where the animals "hatch" as well as when. A single tech can make multiple resources appear - so you could "hatch" terror birds in the only mountains and tigers only in the jungles, for example.

2. If you are on a fixed map, you can preplace all sorts of barbarian animals. I very much like this idea. ... You can slow down the introduction of Smilodons by having them be flagged as wheeled and trpped in a forest, when forest does not allow wheeled units to move.

Is it possible to have many different barbarians units? The most I remember seeing is 2 land & one naval.

Combining the idea of limiting unit movement with tech advancement. Preplace immobile units that later upgrade to ones with movement. One "baby" immobile unit = one "adult" animal. You only end up with as many animals as you pre-determine for the maximum.

Something I've been pondering is combining some of those bounding factors with releasing animals by placing a telepad in their home city. If the home city is surrounded by impassable terrain the animals can't escape in a bunch. Only a certain number could be released per turn. They could appear anywhere within a certain range - more or less randomly. Since there are no other telepads they would be limited to normal movement unless they hopped back home. Even if the humans can't reach the city, if they can control access to required resources by encroaching on Nature's territory, then the animals effectively become extinct. Obsolescence of the telepad would probably work as well.

Another weirdness to contemplate. If you have multiple civ slots free you could have "predators", "prey" & "forces of nature". So a tornado might attack a cow as well as a player civ. Rampant smilodons might even make those pesky mammoths go extinct by killing off their last king unit.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Is it possible to have many different barbarians units? The most I remember seeing is 2 land & one naval.

You can pre-place any number of different units assigned to the barbarians on the map.

Only 2 land and one naval unit type will be spawned from camps though. This means that once all the pre-placed units are gone, the barbarians won't be getting any more of them.

 

[timerover51]

I've toyed with this a bit. There are a few ways you can go about it, and to some degree it depends on how fantastic (meaning divergent from our reality) you want to go. Some ideas:

2. If you are on a fixed map, you can preplace all sorts of barbarian animals. I very much like this idea. Unfortunately it is limited to premade maps, and by late game they will be all gone (but that actually mirrors our history of defeating the Great Beasts such as Mammoths and Sabre-toothed kitties, no?). You can slow down the introduction of Smilodons by having them be flagged as wheeled and trpped in a forest, when forest does not allow wheeled units to move. That way you need to either clear the forest for it to roam, or attack it on your own terms, Probably best to have it in a wide clearing surrounded by forest. When I do this tactic, I make sure said beastie is guarding some kind of rare and precious resource, to make the battle more worthwhile.

The wheeled unit surrounded by forest/jungle is what TETurkhan uses in the Test of Time scenario that I have been playing with for the dinosaurs. I am planning to experiment with the difference in Barbarian Aggressiveness between Play the World and Conquests to get the right mix of numbers and combat abilities. As I see it, the larger wild animals and carnivores in the Eemian Interglacial Period should be able to pose a credible threat to humans up through the technology of the mid-1800s. As for a wild animal killing off the first settler of a player, if said settler is sent out without escort, the player should have a probability of loosing it.

In the modified Test of Time scenario that I am presently working with, I have the Dinosaurs running loose, and having fairly high combat abilities. The result is the AI is sending out all settlers with a fighting unit escort. If you leave the existing combat settings for the bonus against Barbarians, the Dinosaurs are getting killed off fairly quickly, but if set for only a 200% bonus, as in Regent, verses an 800% bonus for Chieftain, the Dinosaurs wreak quite a bit of havoc, including attacking cities, although they then disappear.

You can pre-place any number of different units assigned to the barbarians on the map.

Only 2 land and one naval unit type will be spawned from camps though. This means that once all the pre-placed units are gone, the barbarians won't be getting any more of them.

First, I have put a pretty wide range of units as Barbarians into the Test of Time scenario, so there does not seem to be a limit of units designated Barbarians. However, once the pre=placed units are killed off, they are not replaced, as Virote has stated.

Given the time of the scenario, circa 125,000 BC, there really should not be any human barbarians, so having wild animals being spawned from Barbarian Camps would be quite reasonable. You could only have two, however, which does limit things, and given the way the Barbarian generator works, you will get a very large number of Advanced Barbarians if the game lasts a while, or you have Barbarian camps in isolated areas. With respect to the naval Barbarian unit, I have record of three whaling ships being sunk by sperm whales, the most recent being the whaling bark Kathleen sunk in 1902. Given that, having a Sperm Whale as the Barbarian naval unit would seem appropriate, with it posing a danger to all ships of less than 200 feet or so, which would take you to the period of iron-built ships in the mid 1800s. I am not sure that a smaller riveted iron ship would not be in danger from a large Sperm Whale as well.

I am presently experimenting with converting one Civilization in the Test of Time to a Dinosaur-based combat unit one, at least up to the Industrial Age. Again, my testing is beginning in Play the World, using the Test of Time Dinosaurs. If that works, what might be possible to do is set up a "Nature" civilization that can produce additional wild animals with a variety greater than 2. Now, as the AI will routinely produce the most capable combat unit, in order to get a good variety, the scenario would have to have buildings auto-produce the various wild animal units.

Oz, if you want, I can do some experimenting with pre-set "Nature" civilization cities capable of producing specific types of Dinosaurs based on resources, and pass the results on to you, or post the .bix or .biq file here.

 

[Vuldacon]

Balthasar and I have a Nature Civ in the Old West Game that is a work in progress.
Nature is a Non Playable Civ (only for the AI) in the Game and uses its own Tech tree of only the 1st Era. This is in a 4 Era Game.

Nature cannot be contacted and is at constant War with all other CIVs. Nature is set so no CIV can contact it because it is just too strange to Negotiate with Nature

A Pre-made Map is used... Nature uses Places as their "Cities"... Grand Canyon, Old Faithful, etc... All Nature "Cities" are pre-placed and Nature has No Settlers and cannot build any New Cities.

Nature Cities are made stronger than other CIVs Cities to avoid easy Capture. This is accomplished by using both Strong Improvements and Immobile Units in Nature Cities.

Wonders and Improvements auto produce Units as well as Nature directly building other units.
Wonders that Nature Builds at the start of the game, place other Improvements in all Nature "Cities" that will auto produce Units at later times when resources are gained.
This makes Hordes of Units at the same time when the resources are gained because each "City" has the Improvements that produce the units and do so at the same time the resources are gained.

Naturally, Upgrades are used such as "Wild Eggs" that are both auto-produced and found on the Map that can be captured and or upgraded to different Units. The same Unit can be Upgraded by other CIVs to different Units.

Nature also has Pre-placed Units on the Map as well as in its "Cities".

Working out the timing for when Nature can directly build, Upgrade or Auto-produce the various game Units and how many is of course a chore... but accomplishing challenges are what MODDERS find enjoyable ...right?

As usual, there are problems to work out when making a MOD from a Game that has fixed Programming... That said, it can be done with thought and effort as we have all seen in the many MODS here at Civfanatics.

Much more I could add here but the previous Posts state some of the Good basic methods to consider to have Wild Animals in a MOD/Scenario.

 

[timerover51]

Balthasar and I have a Nature Civ in the Old West Game that is a work in progress.
Nature is a Non Playable Civ (only for the AI) in the Game and uses its own Tech tree of only the 1st Era. This is in a 4 Era Game.

Nature cannot be contacted and is at constant War with all other CIVs. Nature is set so no CIV can contact it because it is just too strange to Negotiate with Nature

A Pre-made Map is used... Nature uses Places as their "Cities"... Grand Canyon, Old Faithful, etc... All Nature "Cities" are pre-placed and Nature has No Settlers and cannot build any New Cities.

Nature Cities are made stronger than other CIVs Cities to avoid easy Capture. This is accomplished by using both Strong Improvements and Immobile Units in Nature Cities.

This is pretty much how I was envisioning setting up the Dinosaur Civilization as the Nature Civilization. I was planning on using immobile Stegosaurus and Ankylosaurus for city defense. As I am not that experienced on adding Improvement, I was going with using what was already in the game.

Wonders and Improvements auto produce Units as well as Nature directly building other units.
Wonders that Nature Builds at the start of the game, place other Improvements in all Nature "Cities" that will auto produce Units at later times when resources are gained.
This makes Hordes of Units at the same time when the resources are gained because each "City" has the Improvements that produce the units and do so at the same time the resources are gained.

Naturally, Upgrades are used such as "Wild Eggs" that are both auto-produced and found on the Map that can be captured and or upgraded to different Units. The same Unit can be Upgraded by other CIVs to different Units.

Nature also has Pre-placed Units on the Map as well as in its "Cities".

Working out the timing for when Nature can directly build, Upgrade or Auto-produce the various game Units and how many is of course a chore... but accomplishing challenges are what MODDERS find enjoyable ...right?

As usual, there are problems to work out when making a MOD from a Game that has fixed Programming... That said, it can be done with thought and effort as we have all seen in the many MODS here at Civfanatics.

Much more I could add here but the previous Posts state some of the Good basic methods to consider to have Wild Animals in a MOD/Scenario.

Again, as I am not really experienced with adding Improvements, I was planning on using the Resources in the game to control which cities build which units. There are enough luxury resources to handle all of the Dinosaurs, and I was thinking about maybe using some of the strategic resources as well, with the Dinosaur/Nature civilization having the needed Techs to access them.

 

[Vuldacon]

timerover51... Good, You should not have any problems accomplishing it.

You know that there are "things" to get around but it can be accomplished.

If you use a so called Nature CIV, it is best to have it only for the AI and set at constant War with all others and no contact possible.

Use that and also have Nature be able to build Wonders that place Improvements in ALL of its buildings...even Two Improvements. Then use your resources to "activate" those Improvements to start Auto-producing Units when you want.

You can still have Nature Directly Be able to build other Units as you desire.

The Human Player cannot play as Nature or even make Peace so this helps the Game Play as one would want.

Simply set Nature to be able to build Wonders (by any other Name) and set those "Wonders" to place Improvements that will Auto-Produce Units for Nature. The Wonders can also Auto-Produce Units from the Start..... but the Improvements will Not start Auto-Producing Units until the Resources are gained.

In Other words... when a Wonder places any Improvement that Requires a Resource to be able to build that Improvement, the Benefits are there as Flagged when placed, But the Auto-Production of the units cannot start until the Resources are obtained.

We all know that the AI does Not tend to build Wonders or Improvements when at war as much as it does Units.... so at the start of the Game, the AI has the chance to build Wonders and especially if the Wonders do not cost so much that many turns are needed and also if the Wonders provide Great benefits.

So simply take advantage of this and have the AI build any number of Wonders from the Start and have those Wonders place Improvements that require a Particular Resource to be built. Also have those Improvements Auto-Produce a Unit.

You can then dictate when you want the Improvement to start Auto-producing the unit by dictating when the Resource is gained.

The thing is, ALL of the cities that have the Improvement will produce the Unit exactly at the same time because the Improvement was placed at the same time by the Wonder.

Thought will tell you that, for example, if you set an Improvement to Auto-Produce a Unit every 12 turns and the Improvement is placed by a Wonder. IF the Resource that is required to build the Improvement is obtained 12 or more turns after the Wonder places the Improvement, ALL Cities will instantly have the Unit when the Resource is Obtained = Hordes.

You can use this to make Hordes of units that the AI will use at that time.... then after that, the Improvement will continue to produce at the rate you set and or go Obsolete as you set up.

Personally, I like to have games at least have what I have called "Plausible Reality" or in other words, have it seem possible in some remote way, at least in the game

Unless you have all CIVs only have 1 ERA, you will have problems with Nature having a 1 ERA Tech Tree because all require the same to advance to the next ERA..... So Set Nature with 1 ERA and adjust the Costs of the Techs for that so Nature will require more turns to get through the Their Tech Tree. You can also set Units to require No Support for Nature so Nature can handle many units and continue through its Tech Tree. This will require experimenting and Testing to get the Balance You want.

On an Off Note... you can use Upgrades of a single Unit that can be captured by all CIVs, including Nature, that can Upgrade to different units for each CIV. Many ways to go about adding Animals or even a separate CIV as Nature to accomplish what you want.

I believe you can accomplish adding Dinosaurs or anything you like to have the Game you want.

As has been said many times here... "Think Out of the Box" ... you will succeed.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Wonders that Nature Builds at the start of the game, place other Improvements in all Nature "Cities" that will auto produce Units at later times when resources are gained.
This makes Hordes of Units at the same time when the resources are gained because each "City" has the Improvements that produce the units and do so at the same time the resources are gained.

In EFZI the hordes quickly become overwhelming if the player is not prepared.Entirely appropriate for a zombie apocalypse scenario. Do you have any suggestions about limiting the size of the horde? Is it simply a matter of setting the production to make more turns per unit? Also, if an improvement is obsoleted before the horde is released do the units pre-built up to that point still appear?

Naturally, Upgrades are used such as "Wild Eggs" that are both auto-produced and found on the Map that can be captured and or upgraded to different Units. The same Unit can be Upgraded by other CIVs to different Units.

This could come in handy since animal training & domestication follow the bend of the culture. Elephants, for example, are used as workers, transportation, and militarily. But how would a single unit upgrade into such widely varying units?

Working out the timing for when Nature can directly build, Upgrade or Auto-produce the various game Units and how many is of course a chore... but accomplishing challenges are what MODDERS find enjoyable ...right?

As usual, there are problems to work out when making a MOD from a Game that has fixed Programming... That said, it can be done with thought and effort as we have all seen in the many MODS here at Civfanatics.

It's a strong indicator of the quality of our community that we can continue to create the full range from closely detailed historical simulations to wholly imaginative scenarios with individual characters out of a rigid, undocumented, outdated game engine.

 

[Vuldacon]

Blue Monkey...

In EFZI the hordes quickly become overwhelming if the player is not prepared.Entirely appropriate for a zombie apocalypse scenario. Do you have any suggestions about limiting the size of the horde? Is it simply a matter of setting the production to make more turns per unit? Also, if an improvement is obsoleted before the horde is released do the units pre-built up to that point still appear?

The Hordes of Units happen from the Improvements that are placed at the same time in ALL Cities. Because the Improvement produces a Unit every "X" number of turns, each city gains the unit at the same time. Other than auto-production from Improvements, in many cases the same Unit can also be directly built. If you also give the units the ability to use airports (sewers in EFZI2 Complete), the AI will send most of them to one city so all can attack an enemy city = Hordes.
...You can limit the size of the Horde by limiting the cities that have Airports and or the Units that can use them. Naturally, the Number of turns set to auto-produce a unit will either limit or increase the total number of those units but remember that it is really how fast many units can reach the same area at the same time that makes the Hordes. Units that have already been built remain after an Improvement goes Obsolete.

...I will add that by having the AI build a Wonder at the start of the game and setting the Wonder to place Improvements in ALL Cities as well as perhaps another Improvement in All Cities on the Same Continent. You can have the Wonder itself auto-produce a Unit as well as both Improvements. Each Improvement that is placed by the Wonder can be set to require a Resource to be able to Built it. In this way, the Improvement cannot be Built yet but is Placed by the Wonder before it can be directly built. Each Improvement will only start Auto-production when each Resource is gained. The Improvements can then be directly built because the required resource is available. This provides control as to when you want the Production to start. What ever benefits you set up for the Improvements will start as soon as the Wonder places them but the Auto-Production does not start until the required Resource is gained.
...Another important factor is making sure the City that builds the Wonder is Strong enough to avoid being captured because if captured, all improvements it placed in all cities will vanish. One way to accomplish this if you are not using a pre-placed Map is to have the Wonder auto-produce extremely Strong Defensive Units and make them Immobile so the AI cannot take the Units out of the City.

But how would a single unit upgrade into such widely varying units?

By using an Upgrade Path.
Example:All Civs can get Eggs so ALL CIVs are Highlighted to be able to have the Eggs. Each CIV can Upgrade the Eggs to a different Unit by using an Upgrade Path. CIV 1 Upgrades Eggs to Unit1, Unit1 Upgrades to Unit2 for CIV 2, Unit2 Upgrades to Unit3 for CIV 3, etc... The CIV or CIVs that can Upgrade to each Unit are Highlighted as the CIV or CIVs that can have the Upgrade Unit. Example: CIV 1 Upgrades Eggs to Birds and they are the Only CIV that can have Birds, then the Birds are set to Upgrade to Snakes for CIV 2 and because CIV 2 does not have Birds, their Eggs Upgrade directly to Snakes. Each Unit can also be separated by using Prerequisites and Required Resources. The Main thing is to have the Upgrade Units only available for Upgrade for the CIVs you want to have the Different Units. In other words, No other CIVs can build or Upgrade to the Upgrade Unit except those CIVs you Highlight to be able to Upgrade to the Unit.
Note: You can set any number of CIVs that you want to have a Unit in the Upgrade Path. example: CIV 1 Upgrades Eggs to Birds and then Birds Upgrades to Snakes for CIV 2, CIV 3 and CIV 4, Then Snakes Upgrade to something else for CIV 5 and CIV 6, etc...
Hope this all makes sense

It's a strong indicator of the quality of our community that we can continue to create the full range from closely detailed historical simulations to wholly imaginative scenarios with individual characters out of a rigid, undocumented, outdated game engine.

Yes indeed and "Outdated" Game or not, it remains the Best for overall MODDING.

 

[r16]

an interesting thread now that am kinda writing down some ideas of my own to do when ı have any confidence in my lap top again .

ı think there is a cap of 256 buildings while from a thread of AnthonyBoscia ı have read 10 000 units were tested without a problem . How many tech slots are there ?

 

[Blue Monkey]

Hope this all makes sense

Same technique as for flavor units, right? As open-minded as I try to be, for some reason I never thought of marines (snakes) and paratroopers (birds) being different "flavors" of the same unit. One of those things that's obvious but only after you know it. Knowing that anything can upgrade to anything is a real eye-opener.

 

[Vuldacon]

Knowing that anything can upgrade to anything is a real eye-opener.

Blue Monkey... Yes, it does come in handy. Of course using some degree of Plausibility in many cases helps too. IF all CIVs can have Wild Eggs and Upgrade them to different Units, it would be best if the Upgraded Units hatch from Eggs

 

[Blue Monkey]

Blue Monkey... Yes, it does come in handy. Of course using some degree of Plausibility in many cases helps too. IF all CIVs can have Wild Eggs and Upgrade them to different Units, it would be best if the Upgraded Units hatch from Eggs

(emphasis added)

Better freedom to make a lousy scenario than not being able to make a uniquely enjoyable one.

I was thinking of divergent evolution (whether genetic or technological). For example: tom2050's ancient eagle & the terror bird rider both upgrading from an earlier unit that upgraded from an egg while another line goes from egg to velociraptor & an amphibian. In other words generic => culture group (flavor) => UU , where the UUs wouldn't even need to be the same type of unit.

 

[Vuldacon]

Well Hell yes, Manipulate as you see fit to gain what you want
...and when you discover the way... let us all know

 

[Balthasar]

I was thinking of divergent evolution (whether genetic or technological). For example: tom2050's ancient eagle & the terror bird rider both upgrading from an earlier unit that upgraded from an egg while another line goes from egg to velociraptor & an amphibian. In other words generic => culture group (flavor) => UU , where the UUs wouldn't even need to be the same type of unit.

Interesting, considering that velociraptors may have been terror birds themselves.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Two passages stand out as relevant to this thread:

I study dinosaurs for a living and it didn’t bother me to see Velociraptors being used as hunting dogs ...

... Zhenyuanlong is fairly large for a close relative of birds, two metres long from snout to tail. It also has much shorter arms than Velociraptor or birds.

Cry havoc & let slip the birds of war.

 

[Ozymandias]

Given the time of the scenario, circa 125,000 BC, there really should not be any human barbarians, so having wild animals being spawned from Barbarian Camps would be quite reasonable. You could only have two, however, which does limit things, and given the way the Barbarian generator works, you will get a very large number of Advanced Barbarians if the game lasts a while, or you have Barbarian camps in isolated areas. With respect to the naval Barbarian unit, I have record of three whaling ships being sunk by sperm whales, the most recent being the whaling bark Kathleen sunk in 1902. Given that, having a Sperm Whale as the Barbarian naval unit would seem appropriate, with it posing a danger to all ships of less than 200 feet or so, which would take you to the period of iron-built ships in the mid 1800s. I am not sure that a smaller riveted iron ship would not be in danger from a large Sperm Whale as well.

I am presently experimenting with converting one Civilization in the Test of Time to a Dinosaur-based combat unit one, at least up to the Industrial Age. Again, my testing is beginning in Play the World, using the Test of Time Dinosaurs. If that works, what might be possible to do is set up a "Nature" civilization that can produce additional wild animals with a variety greater than 2. Now, as the AI will routinely produce the most capable combat unit, in order to get a good variety, the scenario would have to have buildings auto-produce the various wild animal units.

Oz, if you want, I can do some experimenting with pre-set "Nature" civilization cities capable of producing specific types of Dinosaurs based on resources, and pass the results on to you, or post the .bix or .biq file here.

Nice

As I'm "fudging" the timeline of the spread of Homo sapiens, horses, and elephants, my first thought was to do the same with Homo Neandertalensis ("Neanderthal Man.") The common ancestor of H. Sapiens & H. Neandertalensis split apart some 800,000 years ago; although the latter's realm was limited to Europe (with a "cousin" species, the Denisovians, in north-central Eurasia) I was thinking of "dispersing" them as Barbarians (along with smilodons, dire wolves - and now whales!) throughout the world (yet again exempting South America and Australia. for the mammals.) (BTW, all H. sapiens of strictly - within the last 200,000 years - of non-African decent contain between 1%- 4% Neanderthal DNA - it seems "we" simply out-bred them into extinction.) Also, interestingly, probably the best unit to use (with its decidedly over-built torso) is the "vanilla" Civ Warrior.


,
z

 

[Blue Monkey]

...- it seems "we" simply out-bred them into extinction.)

Extinctions usually have multiple causes. One aspect we discussed in my physical anthropology course is the likelihood that they were more prolific during the glacial maximum but were not as well suited to the warmer weather that let us thrive.

Also, interestingly, probably the best unit to use (with its decidedly over-built torso) is the "vanilla" Civ Warrior.

Did you look at Sandris' Stone Age set? Or maybe those are used for some of the various civs?

 

[Ozymandias]

Extinctions usually have multiple causes. One aspect we discussed in my physical anthropology course is the likelihood that they were more prolific during the glacial maximum but were not as well suited to the warmer weather that let us thrive.

Undoubtedly most extinctions usually have multiple causes, with the notable exception of the current "Anthropocene" (which, I've noticed, has been in increasing use of late rather than "Holocene") - 51% of all species existing in 1970 are now extinct, and there's only one place to point that finger

I suspect that the causalities were multiple yet inextricably intertwined: the Neanderthal "tool kit" was obviously fine for the Glacial Maximum; perhaps not so much so as the Woolly Mammoths faded away - while suddenly simultaneously & competing with "us," both with a superior "tool kit" and an estimated population density ratio ~ 10:1.

Did you look at Sandris' Stone Age set? Or maybe those are used for some of the various civs?

Sandris' units are far-and-away superior. I'm (mulling) using the standard Civ warrior simply because of its "brawnier" appearance, as our Neanderthal cousins were far more robust then we ... of course, I can just as easily assume some other ‘archaic’ species of Homo sapiens - or, simply assume that they're just, well barbarians