Will Civ VI use any mechanics from BE?

[Acken]

I don't know what the analogy would be in boardgames considering there is often no notion of opinion. And if anything other players usualy gangup on the one doing well.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

Is it too late for me to close the can of worms that is debating Beyond Earth?

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[TheMarshmallowBear]

Things that'd I'd like to see in Civ 6 from BE

1. Mid-to-late game diplomatic agreements, could also implement it in City States so that each City State is truly unique and I no longer ignore Militaristic city states.

2. War Score, because I'd like to know just how much I can take from an AI for winning/losing a war. Also good for roleplaying in MP/Hotseat >.>

3. Affinities adapted to Ideologies somehow.

4. More improvements, which are kinda done thru the use of districts.

 

[DefiantMars]

I agree that the execution isn't very good, but I'm not quite sure if the "failure to execute" is really the core issue. The way I see it it's more like... a mechanic built on a bad idea, namely that the opinions of a leader should be, for the most part, based on a semi-arbitrary part of your empire instead of actual diplomacy. The way Fear and Respect work seems more like a mechanic for a complex board game and way too abstract to fit the roleplay-ish elements of 4x games.

I wasn't just referring to the Fear/Respect system alone, what I said was more a blanket statement for BE's design execution as a whole. Again, I will say that I feel that the ideas of Beyond Earth were well intended but were pointed in the wrong directions with odd ties to certain mechanics and imbalances.

Regarding Fear/Respect specifically I think you hit the major points. I believe that I did bring up the lack of direct interactions really hurt the concept. I feel like point of Respect is that they're trying to simulate that the leaders are forming opinions about your domain. An AI looks at your lands, sees you don't have a good economy and looks down on you, but sees that you have plenty of food so they respect you for that. Flawed as it may be, I will say that it was nice to see an actual number instead of seeing just red or green with no quantity associated with it. I believe Civ IV had more transparent numbers as well?

I would argue that Civ V diplomacy is yelling at other players and extortion. But BERT diplomacy isn't really an improvement either.

 

[DefiantMars]

3. Affinities adapted to Ideologies somehow.

I'd like for there to be more variation in Ideologies. I just don't know how or were you'd start for Ideologies. BE Affinities "start" at the beginning of the game, where Civ V Ideologies start in the Modern era. I'm not sure how mechanically or thematically speaking how to push that window back. I'm sure there is a way, but the solution eludes me.

Also, are 3 ideologies enough? Is it too few or is it just right?

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go cry about the state of Hybrid Affinities.

 

[Monado]

I hated the Civ V Ideologies. Early and mid game AI relationships meant absolutely nothing because everyone randomly re-aligned friendships depending on what ideology they were programmed to choose.

I despised the affinity system in BE (and just about everything else to do with that game).

I hope neither really carry over.

 

[poom3619]

Regarding Fear/Respect specifically I think you hit the major points. I believe that I did bring up the lack of direct interactions really hurt the concept. I feel like point of Respect is that they're trying to simulate that the leaders are forming opinions about your domain. An AI looks at your lands, sees you don't have a good economy and looks down on you, but sees that you have plenty of food so they respect you for that. Flawed as it may be, I will say that it was nice to see an actual number instead of seeing just red or green with no quantity associated with it. I believe Civ IV had more transparent numbers as well?

I would argue that Civ V diplomacy is yelling at other players and extortion. But BERT diplomacy isn't really an improvement either.

Civ4 give us plus and minus for various things. Example :

Spoiler :

Now, I remember that Civ5 dev said that it is predictable. If you being nice to Civ4 AI, AI will usually being nice with you. So they want to make diplomacy more obscure and "human-like", and that result in, more or less, Civ5 diplomacy as we know it today. Which is less predictable or random or prone to backstab player, depend on who you ask.

and it can be a good things or bad things, depend on who you ask.

Also, are 3 ideologies enough? Is it too few or is it just right?

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go cry about the state of Hybrid Affinities.

I think 3 ideologies is enough to represent a wide spectrum of modern ideologies in real-life without frying Civ player's mind. There are few school of thought that could be represent by adding more tenets or having two ideologies interact with each other in some way.

Hybrid-Ideologies, that is. Let's hope Firaxis do it right.