Candian.Gloworm
Of The Canadians
I agree. I like it very crowded (16 civs on tiny map) no chance to build.
Wimping out
- Thread starter Candian.Gloworm
- Start date
I prefer it somewhere in between. I don't like having a huge empire, but hate having to go to war in the early BCs. ALthough I love to fight in the late BCs and the early middle ages.
Someone mentioned they may bail out if they're stuck on a small island. Depending on the size this can be a blessing. Current situation: started on a small island that I like to think of as England (even though I'm playing as the Texans... I love custimizing tribes). Anyway it was small... if cities were perfect placed I'd have maybe 4 cities. I overlapped them and ended up with 8. By this point (its 1200AD or so) they are all above 10 in size and cranking out knights. My Texans are a Persian breed so as soon as I had mapmaking I cranked out immortals and sent them across the sea. I conquered the Zulu and the Babylonians. During the wars, I never had to worry about my homeland being attacked. I would give or take some of their cities, but never my home.
Don't give up because of an island. It can provide powerful protection. The United States wasn't invaded in WWI or II because of the Pacific and Atlantic. Use the islands to your advantage.
Don't give up because of an island. It can provide powerful protection. The United States wasn't invaded in WWI or II because of the Pacific and Atlantic. Use the islands to your advantage.
Magnus
Diplocat
16 civs on the standard map is good for a small but strong empire. Once you are big enough to build the Forbidden Palace (8 cities), you are generally among the elite civs.
for VERY early war, try playing the Zulu - get into a war with an impi unit, start the Golden Age, then produce MASSIVE amounts of impis! they are awesome at pillaging the coutryside of your enemies (2 defense and 2 move), couple them with Horsemen and woe be to anyone that crosses you. ancient blitzkrieg.
dannyevilcat
DESTROYER OF FURNITURE
Well, I'll restart if something is just too lame, like my Germans starting out in the scorching desert, not just because desert is a poor man's terrain.
Also, I tried playing out a game on an island once, with the strategy that since I was going to be way behind in tech I'd have as huge a military as I could, which it turns out isn't that big. This way I figured I could bully my neighbours into giving me things. I got lucky that I was "discovered" by the weakest of the continental nations. But since I had nothing to trade, and he wasn't the least bit afraid of me, I was screwed.
So then I decide to attack them, make peace for techs, repeat until I was as advanced as the other nations, but meanwhile I have no culture because I'm pumping out military units and ferrying them across. So I urgently seek to finish off the weak Babylonians. But this means breaking peace treaties... now all the other nations are hostile. Also, the Babylonians have cities in between other empires that I can't get to because no one will make a RoP agreement w/ me, and certainly not sign a alliance. Just getting contact with some other nation costs me ridiculous amounts of gold and more, only to find, sure enough-- another hostile civ! Yay!
So basically if I kept playing, by the time I could finish off the Babylonians and start making buildings instead of soldiers, I'd be the civ equivalent of real-life China vs. the advanced West.
This would probably be fun to play out if I didn't want to win, but I do, so I quit. And I don't feel guilty... I feel screwed over!
Also, I tried playing out a game on an island once, with the strategy that since I was going to be way behind in tech I'd have as huge a military as I could, which it turns out isn't that big. This way I figured I could bully my neighbours into giving me things. I got lucky that I was "discovered" by the weakest of the continental nations. But since I had nothing to trade, and he wasn't the least bit afraid of me, I was screwed.
So then I decide to attack them, make peace for techs, repeat until I was as advanced as the other nations, but meanwhile I have no culture because I'm pumping out military units and ferrying them across. So I urgently seek to finish off the weak Babylonians. But this means breaking peace treaties... now all the other nations are hostile. Also, the Babylonians have cities in between other empires that I can't get to because no one will make a RoP agreement w/ me, and certainly not sign a alliance. Just getting contact with some other nation costs me ridiculous amounts of gold and more, only to find, sure enough-- another hostile civ! Yay!
So basically if I kept playing, by the time I could finish off the Babylonians and start making buildings instead of soldiers, I'd be the civ equivalent of real-life China vs. the advanced West.
This would probably be fun to play out if I didn't want to win, but I do, so I quit. And I don't feel guilty... I feel screwed over!
Ironikinit
Prince
Depends. If I'm playing on regent, I'll take whatever comes along. On monarch I'm a little pickier. My first game on monarch I restarted a lot.
Iron isn't really the kicker for me, it's how good a capitol site I have. Iron is pretty common, in my experience.
Desert isn't so bad, really, so long as there is a river and hills around, although picking a site on a flood plain causes disease, and that messes things up badly.
Generally, it seems like the computer picks out pretty good starting points.
Iron isn't really the kicker for me, it's how good a capitol site I have. Iron is pretty common, in my experience.
Desert isn't so bad, really, so long as there is a river and hills around, although picking a site on a flood plain causes disease, and that messes things up badly.
Generally, it seems like the computer picks out pretty good starting points.
Cerryl
Warlord
How do you get more than 4 on a tiny map? The map editor?
I've found the defaults crowded enough for the map sizes, but after trying one game on a huge map, I couldn't stomach the wait times. Of course, I have a rather humble machine (p3/800, 256 RAM) but I can't afford the lastest and greatest.
Cerryl
Warlord
I'm the opposite, I love fighting early on and will almost always attack my closest neighbor with my first two warriors.
Yes, I've had several games where I've been beaten down and defeated early on, but most times it works well and when you kill off his initial 2 cities, he ends up way on the other side of the continent.
I once restarted a game 20 times in a row - trying to get teh damn random map generator to give me a real achipeligo. it never did, there was always one huge island. I don't think the continent type selector really does anything - the best archipeligo I ever got was from a pangea setting! Of course, that was when I actually wanted a pangea...
I like the early game a lot more than the late game.
I like the early game a lot more than the late game.
tatterdemalion
Chieftain
I not only restart games with bad initial locations, I also edit maps to put halfway adequate amounts of saltpeter and Aluminum on all the continents.
I also save games before combat and reload if the combat result is really stupid.
And worst of all: I have fun playing that way! <gasp>
I also save games before combat and reload if the combat result is really stupid.
And worst of all: I have fun playing that way! <gasp>
A few things for how to win if you're stuck on an island:
First, spend time on infrastructure BEFORE crancking out the military. No one is going to be attacking you (except perhaps in very small #'s) so you're relatively safe. Fill up every inch of land on the island with cities and build workers so that every inch of land is mined or irrigated with roads.
Second. You are WAY behind in techs by now, don't even try to keep up at higher levels w/out trading techs. So, if you're not going to try, change it over to 9/1/0 ratio of cash. 90% taxes and just eat the 32 turns (40 with patch). I did this and had around 800gc by the time I met the zulu. I bought 6 techs for 350gc and traded those techs with other kingdoms for whatever other techs you're missing. From the time I met the continentals (as I call them) until I was caught up in the tech race was 3 turns.
Third, research iron EARLY and pray you have it on your island. I did, within my capital's city radius no less. If you don't have iron on your island... you need to speed up this whole process. Either way, research it and start cranking out swordsmen (immortals, etc) so that when you find the continent (usually your island is just off a major continent) you can send over your troops en masse.
Fourth; take one decent sized civ. quickly on the continent. I took the zulu's... kept 8 of their cities and razed a few. In the process I got a leader and rushed the FP on the continent. Boom, I have a second continent of cities. At this point you have a main continent protected by water still cranking out swordsmen or knights, a second continent building up its defences, and you're getting ready to attack from your own territory against a next target. I went from 7th in land size to 1st in landsize in 3 turns by taking an entire nation.
Note: If you don't have iron, build horsemen... you'll have iron later and you can upgrade your horsemen to knights. If you don't have iron OR horses, build whatever unit will work best for you... probably archers. If you are stuck w/out horses or iron on a small island, you need to get off faster than I have outlined here. If you have both resources (or just iron), then fully infrustructure your own island before moving to the continent, AND use the 90% tax structure so you can buy the techs later.
This is on the middle difficulty level that I've done this... whichever one that is. Monarch, Regent? Not sure.
First, spend time on infrastructure BEFORE crancking out the military. No one is going to be attacking you (except perhaps in very small #'s) so you're relatively safe. Fill up every inch of land on the island with cities and build workers so that every inch of land is mined or irrigated with roads.
Second. You are WAY behind in techs by now, don't even try to keep up at higher levels w/out trading techs. So, if you're not going to try, change it over to 9/1/0 ratio of cash. 90% taxes and just eat the 32 turns (40 with patch). I did this and had around 800gc by the time I met the zulu. I bought 6 techs for 350gc and traded those techs with other kingdoms for whatever other techs you're missing. From the time I met the continentals (as I call them) until I was caught up in the tech race was 3 turns.
Third, research iron EARLY and pray you have it on your island. I did, within my capital's city radius no less. If you don't have iron on your island... you need to speed up this whole process. Either way, research it and start cranking out swordsmen (immortals, etc) so that when you find the continent (usually your island is just off a major continent) you can send over your troops en masse.
Fourth; take one decent sized civ. quickly on the continent. I took the zulu's... kept 8 of their cities and razed a few. In the process I got a leader and rushed the FP on the continent. Boom, I have a second continent of cities. At this point you have a main continent protected by water still cranking out swordsmen or knights, a second continent building up its defences, and you're getting ready to attack from your own territory against a next target. I went from 7th in land size to 1st in landsize in 3 turns by taking an entire nation.
Note: If you don't have iron, build horsemen... you'll have iron later and you can upgrade your horsemen to knights. If you don't have iron OR horses, build whatever unit will work best for you... probably archers. If you are stuck w/out horses or iron on a small island, you need to get off faster than I have outlined here. If you have both resources (or just iron), then fully infrustructure your own island before moving to the continent, AND use the 90% tax structure so you can buy the techs later.
This is on the middle difficulty level that I've done this... whichever one that is. Monarch, Regent? Not sure.
Divis
Ball5 groupie
Divis: Hi, My name is Divis.... and I am a "Wimp"
Class: Hi Divis!
Instructor: Divis, what makes you "wimp out"
Divis: Well, When I start out on a strip of land big enough to put two cities on without overlapping and I find the Iriquois to the South and the Greecians to the North. I JUST CAN'T DEAL WITH IT!
Class: Hi Divis!
Instructor: Divis, what makes you "wimp out"
Divis: Well, When I start out on a strip of land big enough to put two cities on without overlapping and I find the Iriquois to the South and the Greecians to the North. I JUST CAN'T DEAL WITH IT!
Candian.Gloworm
Of The Canadians
CHERRYL
go threw the editer (civ3mod), then go to map size and set the starting number at 16
go threw the editer (civ3mod), then go to map size and set the starting number at 16
Candian.Gloworm
Of The Canadians
DIVIS
LOL
LOL
Ripley
Warlord
I wimp out. I'm not ashamed to admit it either.
Then again, what do you expect from an fps player who is totally new to the Civ franchise. My answer to everything in computer games has always been a railgun, a rocket launcher or a stormhammer. Hmmm, no quad-damage. Bugger.
But seriously, I play random civ all the time. For me, restarting for whatever reason is no worse than only ever playing specific civs. And only playing specfic civs is on par with only playing games with a cushy start location. Your opinion may differ.
The games where I have restarted (or wimped out as some like to call it) are the ones where the outcome is almost guarenteed. Like every civ ganging up on me when I have nothing to bribe them with and I'm way behind on techs. There's little for me to learn in such games, other than learning not to get in that position in the first place.
Then again, what do you expect from an fps player who is totally new to the Civ franchise. My answer to everything in computer games has always been a railgun, a rocket launcher or a stormhammer. Hmmm, no quad-damage. Bugger.
But seriously, I play random civ all the time. For me, restarting for whatever reason is no worse than only ever playing specific civs. And only playing specfic civs is on par with only playing games with a cushy start location. Your opinion may differ.
The games where I have restarted (or wimped out as some like to call it) are the ones where the outcome is almost guarenteed. Like every civ ganging up on me when I have nothing to bribe them with and I'm way behind on techs. There's little for me to learn in such games, other than learning not to get in that position in the first place.
I usually restart several times before each game. I'm very picky about my starting location -- Not only do I need an ideal location for my capital, but also good locations for at least my first two cities. I have been known to reload a game from several turns back when something bad and completely unexpected happens -- Like a massive, unprovoked invasion by a formerly "polite" neighbor. Yeah.. I'm a bastard.
The thrill for me in Civ has always been building up my country though. War is secondary, I avoid it when I can. I couldn't care less about score or "winning" although I do enjoy the demographics.
The thrill for me in Civ has always been building up my country though. War is secondary, I avoid it when I can. I couldn't care less about score or "winning" although I do enjoy the demographics.
Dillo
Barbarian Armadillo
I never restart. But this is because I only play maps that I made.I am fair and evenly distibute resources, if not evenly then equally.I only make contenents,I only put one civ per contenent.I prefer to have modern warfare over anceint warfare.By the time civs meet, its when the first galley is made and starts traveling.I like to see what the other civs comeup with in Isolation .How each develop and how they get their military built.Then its time for world war 1,wich is on a ww3 scale, with nukes and all. Grand horrible devastateing nueclear war.Who cares who doesnt like my nukes, if they complain, then they get nuked too.I have been known to take on all the other civs in the game at once. I didnt win, but I dint lose either, ended up with them begging for peace.But that all depends on if they acknowledge me the first time I make contatct with them while at war.If they ignore me then, I will destroy them ultimatly,I they acknoiwledg me, then I will allow them peace when they ask for it.BTW i DO PUT TONS AND TONS OF BARBARIANS.jUST TO KEEP YOU ON YOUR OES WHILE YOU DONT HAVE TO BATTLE WITH OTHER CIVS.
Zachriel
Kaiser
The solution I use for flood plain disease is pop-rushing settlers. The food allows the population to rise quickly, then pop-rush the settler before disease sets in. In other words, people emigrating to better climes.
I don't like this thread. Can we restart it? 
But on a more serious note, I used to restart a lot of Civ3 games because I didn'd fancy trying to build my empire in the desert/tundra/flood plain/really small island.
But now, I have started to play random civ for the extra challenge. EVerything is randomised from the construction of the world to the barbarians and other civs I have to face - even if it is just 5 of them on a huge world.
Gary
But on a more serious note, I used to restart a lot of Civ3 games because I didn'd fancy trying to build my empire in the desert/tundra/flood plain/really small island.
But now, I have started to play random civ for the extra challenge. EVerything is randomised from the construction of the world to the barbarians and other civs I have to face - even if it is just 5 of them on a huge world.
Gary
I usually play the lay I am given--the challenge is teh game, after all. I usually place the first city on the starting square, unless I can see real benefit from moving 1 square.
Two I remember quitting. (May be others, but don't remember) One on the southern tip of Argentina, Standard world map, with Romans 2 squares north. Room for 3 cities, no way past the romans, no ships for many generations. This was early for me..... Now I know I could have persisted, and possibly elbowed my way past or through th eRomans.
The other was more serious. I was Japan on the final earth map (Marla's) This also was early. Japan had no iron, and there was none anywhere in the area. I expanded and explored all the way to Australia, and never found iron. No iron=no samauri. Germany sold me some eventually for 800 gold and a luxury. On renewal they wanted 2400 gold and three techs. Knowing what I know today, I would have just taken it from them. However, I was trying then to play a peaceful game... and was still learning the CivIII styles of play.
Would I wimp today? POssibly. The goal of this game for me is to have fun. Winning from an impossible position can be fun. I am doing that in my current game. No iron, no coal, no rubber, no saltpeter, no oil in the area I first claimed for my home territory. My former neighbors had losts of it.
However, If it looked like impossible, or when it ceases to be fun... then its start over time.
In CivII I learned that you can't win every game, and in fact can't win most games. I think it may be possible to win most every game in CivIII with the right strategy.
Two I remember quitting. (May be others, but don't remember) One on the southern tip of Argentina, Standard world map, with Romans 2 squares north. Room for 3 cities, no way past the romans, no ships for many generations. This was early for me..... Now I know I could have persisted, and possibly elbowed my way past or through th eRomans.
The other was more serious. I was Japan on the final earth map (Marla's) This also was early. Japan had no iron, and there was none anywhere in the area. I expanded and explored all the way to Australia, and never found iron. No iron=no samauri. Germany sold me some eventually for 800 gold and a luxury. On renewal they wanted 2400 gold and three techs. Knowing what I know today, I would have just taken it from them. However, I was trying then to play a peaceful game... and was still learning the CivIII styles of play.
Would I wimp today? POssibly. The goal of this game for me is to have fun. Winning from an impossible position can be fun. I am doing that in my current game. No iron, no coal, no rubber, no saltpeter, no oil in the area I first claimed for my home territory. My former neighbors had losts of it.
However, If it looked like impossible, or when it ceases to be fun... then its start over time.
In CivII I learned that you can't win every game, and in fact can't win most games. I think it may be possible to win most every game in CivIII with the right strategy.
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