actually for the hardware combinations, I think that with 5 coolers, 2 motherboards 6 RAMs and 10 processors you are in the 1000s rangeYou're into thousands again.
It is harder with MacOS but bare in mind that Windows has much wider support than Linux and Linux has wider support than BSD etc. If your argument is unbiased, there is only one OS for you.
Windows XP Service Pack 3 = Malware
- Thread starter ori
- Start date
I care only about what works.Thousands of what?
I dont get what point you're trying to make here.
Also, fyi, this household is multi-OS enabled. We've got everything from W2K to Win 7, Linux, and FBSD. We use what works, not what looks pretty and makes you 'hip' (read: eejit)
I get reliable OS, a fast display system, and XCode. What more could I need?
Oh and Civ4, although I had to patch it because it complained the CPU was incompatible
Genocidicbunny
Bug squasher
Nope, 2 *5 *6 *10 == 600.
I care only about what works.
I get reliable OS, a fast display system, and XCode. What more could I need?
Oh and Civ4, although I had to patch it because it complained the CPU was incompatible
Well then i don't see why we're at difference here. OSX does not work for me. Its hiding most of it's power behind a pretty facade imho. If it works fine for you, thats lovely. Stop trying to preach it though.
Addendum: My NAT which runs FreeBSD has an uptime counted in years. Id's say thats pretty damned reliable.
Oh I like FreeBSD
It has a crap display system but that's not questioned when you're running it on a NAT. I actually preached Haiku, but fell back on Apple for easier deployment. Heck, Apple deploys easier than a Windows PC!
Erm.. you can boot mac without the GUI. Looks like a BSD, which it is! The Terminal (shell) isn't hidden in the GUI so I don't know why you attack it
It has a crap display system but that's not questioned when you're running it on a NAT. I actually preached Haiku, but fell back on Apple for easier deployment. Heck, Apple deploys easier than a Windows PC!
Erm.. you can boot mac without the GUI. Looks like a BSD, which it is! The Terminal (shell) isn't hidden in the GUI so I don't know why you attack it
Genocidicbunny
Bug squasher
Oh I like FreeBSD
It has a crap display system but that's not questioned when you're running it on a NAT. I actually preached Haiku, but fell back on Apple for easier deployment. Heck, Apple deploys easier than a Windows PC!
Erm.. you can boot mac without the GUI. Looks like a BSD, which it is! The Terminal (shell) isn't hidden in the GUI so I don't know why you attack it
And you can boot FBSD to look pretty too. My point is that by default it hides a lot of the power.
Genocidicbunny
Bug squasher
You overestimate the Apple target audience
It's not about looking good, it's about performing good.
X11 is the industry standard display system for UNIX-like systems. This is not a desktop, it is an engine that can power desktops. X11 was designed for network administrators. It provides very good client-server architecture for remote access. However, X11 focusses on that issue and consequently has no widget support.
There are two problems with having no widget support.
The first problem is that widgets are necessary for fast production of desktop-applications. Widgets are consequently provided by competing desktop environments such as KDE and Gnome. This means that Gnome apps don't work in KDE and vice versa. There are literally hundreds of desktop environments for X11 and they all have different widgets. This is a bad solution for desktop applications and X11 was not designed for desktops!
The second problem is this, by having widgets in a higher environment, calls to subroutines (aka functions or methods) follow a longer path between surface levels and the system. This means that using widgets under UNIX-like systems follow longer paths and waste CPU cycles. None of this matters to remote network administration, but it does matter to single-machine family desktop applications.
MacOS is UNIX-like and it comes bundled with X11. In addition to this, MacOS has its own display system (PDF-based) that is specifically designed to tackle the needs of desktop applications. The display system provides widgets in the desktop environment with fewer message paths. Furthermore, there is no competition between desktop environments.
MacOS is not alone in doing this. MS Windows does it. Haiku does it. FreeBSD doesn't.
Other UNIX-like systems can do it but they need to pull together. They can't solve the problem with Gnome or KDE because those systems are designed to run on the old network administration-orientated X11. No amount of work on X11-compatible desktops can address the problem.
GNUStep is a possible solution.
Spoiler :
There is an element of truth in the above picture. There are also some misleading fibs.
PC have flexibility and when they are tuned, they are incredible. However, that tuning takes time. Its not just setup and adjustments because there is learning curve.
Apple are simple. Essentially, with an Apple, you are paying for someone else to sit down in a lab and tweak components to last for a few years. If you want something done right - you must do it yourself! If you want the latest kit - you must do it yourself! However, for many people, delegating the responsibility is simply a better use of their time.
Genocidicbunny
Bug squasher
Spoiler :
There is an element of truth in the above picture. There are also some misleading fibs.
PC have flexibility and when they are tuned, they are incredible. However, that tuning takes time. Its not just setup and adjustments because there is learning curve.
Apple are simple. Essentially, with an Apple, you are paying for someone else to sit down in a lab and tweak components to last for a few years. If you want something done right - you must do it yourself! If you want the latest kit - you must do it yourself! However, for many people, delegating the responsibility is simply a better use of their time.
As a counterargument I offer the newest Macbook Pro. 100+C chassis temperature? No thank you!
croxis
Chat room op
I'm running gnome apps in KDE right now. Do they still require their respective libraries? Yup, but it does not seriously impact my hard drive or ram use. In fact after the Portland Project in 2006 comparability improved even further.
Another note on RAM use. Windows, at least through XP, would divide ram use between physical and swap space by default. On *Nix types swap is only used if physical ram runs out.
Another note on RAM use. Windows, at least through XP, would divide ram use between physical and swap space by default. On *Nix types swap is only used if physical ram runs out.
After a few years of use, many mac laptops begin to fail with heat problems. More specifically, many mac users have found a fix is it disable their GPU. Affected GPUs include ATi and NVidia products.
I don't particularly like the hardware selections. It's only the OS, and in particular the display system, that I like.
Linux is a lot like the brown car. It can be tweaked to go faster than an off-the-shelf Mac.
To be frank though, I don't want to spend time adding many libraries, testing drivers, and compiling updated beta apps. I use Apple XCode and everything is there. It's so relaxing to write code for a mac
Genocidicbunny
Bug squasher
1. That there is a sign of bad component design. A computer should not be running at temps where it's slowly killing itself.
2. Im talking about the newest as in the latest one announced by Apple Macbook pro. It's been reported to have the CPU run at 100+C with the case acting as a giant heatsink (thus also heating up to 100+C) Thats not good design or simiplicity for consumers, its a lawsuit waiting to happen.
3. Why does my old Dell laptop or my dad's ASUS or my newer MSI keep on chugging years later? They have the same GPU's that macbooks would, no? Its because they're designed with some function in mind. Apple's design creed is to make it look pretty first, functional second. Exhibit 1. Newest Macbook pro. Exhibit 2. Macbook and Macbook pro chiclet keyboards.
4. Too bad that you don't like the hardware selection, because that is a huge part of Macs. The OS wouldn't exist as it does without the hardware limitations imposed.
for Moi, home, family, & office combined: 2 win95 boxs, 1 win98, 2 win 98SE, 1 winME, 3 winXP, 1 win7, and you can count the number of infections plus the number of reinstallations of the operating system on the digits of a quadruple amputee.
hackintosh
Yeah but for most people, they must still have an AV suit installed and slowing them down, simply to connect to their employer's WLAN!
Bratmon
Super Bratmon 3
Yes, tech savvy people can avoid viruses, but Joe Public CANNOT. Thus, it can be concluded that Windows is not for Joe Public.
Wait, how did we end up in an operating system flamewar? What is this, xkcd fora?
Genocidicbunny
Bug squasher
The virus issue is not an inherent issue with Windows. It is the result of market share. Windows dominates the home desktop market. Thus, if I were to write a virus to cause the most damage, I would make it target the Windows platform. If the roles were reversed, OSX would need to have an AV to run 'normally'
This has been pretty well proven by the fact that there are OSX viri and malware out there. There's just very little because from an economical standpoint, it makes little sense to take the time and effort to make them.
Similarly, I like the idea of requiring an AV to connect to a corporate network. Thats not stupid, thats good practice. You have no idea what kind of junk is riding on the employees computer. It simply makes sense to force the users to sanitize their systems on their own.
Genocidicbunny
Bug squasher
hackintosh
I want to use an X58 chipset motherboard, Core i7 930, my own choice of RAM, HDD and other components. Can I do that? Maybe...maybe.
I want to run SLI or Crossfire on that. Can I do that? Nope! Ill concede that crossfire or SLI are both windows only atm, but even then.
Or how bout this, I just bought a brand spanking new Opteron, the 12-core beast. I've got my motherboard and RAM ready, and I want to make it into a workstation. Guess which OS Ill be using? It aint OSX, it doesnt support the new motherboard!
Hackintoshes are a half-arsed answer to apple limiting hardware choices. They will likely never be officially supported, which alone is enough to turn me off them.
EDIT -- Reply button != Edit button.
