Winged Hussar too weak!

[Lazy sweeper]

I just made a run with Poland.
There was an Arabian Cavalry army at 20% energy.
I had two 100% Hussar corps ready to storm them.
Neutral allied city state territory.
Both my Hussar corps were annihilated.
This is outrageous. Hussars were by far the most formidable cavalry of all times in Europe.
We must stand for the Hussars!

 

[jasper]

They light cav bro

 

[Lazy sweeper]

They light cav bro

Light cavalry???!!!! What are talking about??!!
They were armored tanks with longspears to ram and guns for melees, scimitars and yet light and fast on marsh grounds
They blasted away the Ottoman army with all their Jannissery infantry...
They were stronger than cavalry pikemans in civs V. The Elite ultimate pike unit for fighting cavalry.
Perhaps they need to change class?? I don't know. But it's unfair to their mighty.

 

[UWHabs]

They're super strong for their time period. Unlocked in the medieval era, they rip to shreds any other contemporary unit.

But if you're putting them up against regular Cavalry, which are late industrial era, they will get ripped to pieces, yes.

 

[Virdrago]

There was an Arabian Cavalry army at 20% energy.

That also says a bit.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

They're super strong for their time period. Unlocked in the medieval era, they rip to shreds any other contemporary unit.

But if you're putting them up against regular Cavalry, which are late industrial era, they will get ripped to pieces, yes.

If late industrial cavarly - Prussian, French, Russians, Americans were in an open field against them or Eite Keshick with curved bows, they would be vaporized in minutes. Yes.
The order was disbanded. Their guns could fire at 15 mt? I get US Army had better firearm than Prussian curassier and so forth, but that overpower is ridicolus.

That also says a bit.

Well they were on the defence, but a charge of armored Hussars should not just vaporize on impact against another cavalry unit, unarmored.
They were almost dead, bombarded by a cannon corp and left with a tiny red bar... what can I say... a 1:4 ratio? 20% of an Army of three should fare less than 1 unit.
Perhaps 66% health one unit aginst two
My two Hussar corps were also elite corps and 100%...

 

[Virdrago]

I don't know. What were the stats? Maybe they had a religious buff or a promotion.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Hussars are good.

But they're not designated to combat against cavalry armies, or tanks, or anything that are too advanced than it.

 

[jasper]

Light cavalry???!!!! What are talking about??!!
They were armored tanks with longspears to ram and guns for melees, scimitars and yet light and fast on marsh grounds
They blasted away the Ottoman army with all their Jannissery infantry...
They were stronger than cavalry pikemans in civs V. The Elite ultimate pike unit for fighting cavalry.
Perhaps they need to change class?? I don't know. But it's unfair to their mighty.

In game they lite cav bro. Game before historical accuracy.

 

[Tech Osen]

In game they lite cav bro. Game before historical accuracy.

No, they are not. Winged Hussars are heavy cavalry and Cavalry is light cavalry. Anyway, few units can stand up against unit from 2 era's later, medieval vs industrial.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

They light cav bro

https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Winged_Hussar_(Civ6)
Tech Osen is right. Even in civ 6 Winged hussar counts as heavy Calvary.... I don't know where you got that info mate!

 

[SuperFly47]

Calvary is actually the light cavalry unit.

 

[Equilin]

Winged Hussar corp is 65 strength. Cavalry Army is 79, 71 if it's at 20 hp.
I think you must be overlooking something there. Defender of the Faith? Fortified? Promotions? Strategic resource shortage? Diplomatic visibility?
And no, don't bring history into a game discussion where WH is a medieval unit fighting against industrial unit.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

If late industrial cavarly - Prussian, French, Russians, Americans were in an open field against them or Eite Keshick with curved bows, they would be vaporized in minutes. Yes.
The order was disbanded. Their guns could fire at 15 mt? I get US Army had better firearm than Prussian curassier and so forth, but that overpower is ridicolus.

Well they were on the defence, but a charge of armored Hussars should not just vaporize on impact against another cavalry unit, unarmored.
They were almost dead, bombarded by a cannon corp and left with a tiny red bar... what can I say... a 1:4 ratio? 20% of an Army of three should fare less than 1 unit.
Perhaps 66% health one unit aginst two
My two Hussar corps were also elite corps and 100%...

Against cavalry of the 19th century, which is what the Civ VI graphic indicates, the winged hussars would never reach the enemy to have an impact. The Cavalry would have breechloading carbines and there is no steel/iron armor you can wear and still move in that will stop a rifle bullet: the hussars would be shot out of their saddles starting 200 meters away. Likewise, the Keshiks have to get within 100 meters to use their bows in direct fire, so they are also outranged. Staying away and firing their bows in a high arc for range would result in a fire fight in which they are wounding the enemy but he is killing them - not a good exchange.

Note that the American plains indians used composite bows very similar to the Keshik's bows against rifled firearms and they very quickly did everything they could to get their own rifled firearms, no matter what the cost.
And armored cavalry (Cuirassiers) NEVER made a successful charge against dismounted troops (the standard tactic of rifle-armed cavalry in the 19th century on the defense) with rifles in the 19th century - Bülow's attacks against Austrian and French artillery in 1866 and 1870 were with light cavalry and they were still termed 'Death Rides' by both sides, which does not give anybody any reason to try to repeat them!

Lesson: Never bring a lance to a gunfight.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Against cavalry of the 19th century, which is what the Civ VI graphic indicates, the winged hussars would never reach the enemy to have an impact. The Cavalry would have breechloading carbines and there is no steel/iron armor you can wear and still move in that will stop a rifle bullet: the hussars would be shot out of their saddles starting 200 meters away. Likewise, the Keshiks have to get within 100 meters to use their bows in direct fire, so they are also outranged. Staying away and firing their bows in a high arc for range would result in a fire fight in which they are wounding the enemy but he is killing them - not a good exchange.

Note that the American plains indians used composite bows very similar to the Keshik's bows against rifled firearms and they very quickly did everything they could to get their own rifled firearms, no matter what the cost.
And armored cavalry (Cuirassiers) NEVER made a successful charge against dismounted troops (the standard tactic of rifle-armed cavalry in the 19th century on the defense) with rifles in the 19th century - Bülow's attacks against Austrian and French artillery in 1866 and 1870 were with light cavalry and they were still termed 'Death Rides' by both sides, which does not give anybody any reason to try to repeat them!

Lesson: Never bring a lance to a gunfight.

So.
GS Cuirassiers have a correct representations or appear in a corrfect era?
And what should Heavycavs of the 19th Century be? before the introduction of (Light) tanks.

And do you think Keshiks as presented in the game have longer range than they should??

 

[Vandlys]

Can't believe I'm the first to ask this, but why didn't you mention the difficulty level? AI gets combat bonuses on higher levels, so that will influence this too.

"This is outrageous. Hussars were by far the most formidable cavalry of all times in Europe." No, at most (and I don't even know if this is true) they were the most formidable cavalry at that time in Europe. You fought a unit from eras later (who were in an army nonetheless). Would you also complain if that same cavalry lost against one of your tanks?

 

[azbestor]

Can't believe I'm the first to ask this, but why didn't you mention the difficulty level? AI gets combat bonuses on higher levels, so that will influence this too.

"This is outrageous. Hussars were by far the most formidable cavalry of all times in Europe." No, at most (and I don't even know if this is true) they were the most formidable cavalry at that time in Europe. You fought a unit from eras later (who were in an army nonetheless). Would you also complain if that same cavalry lost against one of your tanks?

Kirholm, Kłuszyn, to begin with. Whole Gustaph Adolph tactics build to avoid any battle in semi suitable terrain with them. Guys, who by ratio 1:4 were saying, Yep, we have an advantage. Now, throw some arguments against or anybody better. And remember, Germans weren't a target for us, beaten a horsehockey out of them in early days and that's it.
Diff comment and eras differences on spot.

 

[Vandlys]

Kirholm, Kłuszyn, to begin with. Whole Gustaph Adolph tactics build to avoid any battle in semi suitable terrain with them. Guys, who by ratio 1:4 were saying, Yep, we have an advantage. Now, throw some arguments against or anybody better. And remember, Germans weren't a target for us, beaten a **** out of them in early days and that's it.
Diff comment and eras differences on spot.

I'm sorry, I read your reply four times but I have no clue what you are trying to say, and why you quoted me. : D Kluszyn and Kircholm were battles the Hussars were victorious at, but what are you trying to say? Could you maybe expand a bit? No offense meant, I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Kirholm, Kłuszyn, to begin with. Whole Gustaph Adolph tactics build to avoid any battle in semi suitable terrain with them. Guys, who by ratio 1:4 were saying, Yep, we have an advantage. Now, throw some arguments against or anybody better. And remember, Germans weren't a target for us, beaten a **** out of them in early days and that's it.
Diff comment and eras differences on spot.

I think (also from rereading it a couple of times) that he is saying that the Winged Hussars were exceedingly effective against contemporary (16th - 17th century) armies and units, even the Swedes under Gustaphus Adolphus, who are generally considered one of the best armies of the mid-17th century. This is accurate, but totally irrelevant to the OP and the discussion, which references using them against units from two Eras ahead of them.

 

[TreVor_ish]

Imagine having a UU that can destroy everything for 3 Eras....
You can always mod Hussars, if You want them to be destroyers of all - ad some abilities against certain type of units, or against future era units, or just straight up change combat strength.