Winning the Modern Wonder Wars - Citizen Disscusion

[Chieftess]

Our war with the Greeks is starting to come to a close, and soon, we'll be building modern wonders.

This discussion is to decide which wonders do we want, and how do we want to build these wonders while building up our defenses.

We have 15 turns left on research for the Industrial era: 2 more for Motorized Transport, 6 for flight, and 7 for radio.

First level (techs) for the modern era are Fission (U.N., and Manhatten), and Computers (SETI). The genetics track (2 techs after Computers) nets us Longevity, and Cure for Cancer.

Space Flight (including Rocketry) nets us the small wonder of Apollo (space ship being an enabled victory condition). Strategic Missle Defense is at the end of the modern era. Apparently, sketches from the Military Department say that we'll soon see large missles, that are propelled sort of like a cannon. Rockets may also work in the same fashion...

So, we have 15 turns, plus an estimated 6-7 turns for 1 wonder-tech (21-22 total) to prebuild 2 or more wonders.


Naturally, the U.N. enables diplomatic victory. We should claim this first, as it will deny that victory for other nations. SETI is another wonder, which will increase our scientific research. This should be in our largest commerce producing city. (Currently, Fox Nest - Thebes is 2nd). Pherris and PDX are also good canidates for wonder building (both outputting 68 shields per turn!). Fox Nest is 3rd, with 56.

Personally, we should *let* someone build the Mahatten project, as this will enable nukes for everyone. The later it's built, the better. Nukes are also on the drawing board. Apparently, these little atoms pack quite a punch....


Longevity and Cure for Cancer - Are these wonders useful for us? Longevity will allow our cities to grow faster. Apparently, it's a project to use better farming techniques. CFC makes one unhappy citizen in all cities content. Both output 3 culture per turn.

Here's the shopping list:

U.N. - 1000 shields, 4 CPT (culture per turn)
SETI - 1000 shields, 3 CPT
Manhatten - 800 shields, 2 CPT
Longevity - 1000 shields, 3 CPT
CFC - 1000 shields, 3 CPT

And the base turns until completetion:

PDX (68): 15 Turns (12 turns for Manhatten)
Pherris (68): 15 Turns (12 turns for Manhatten)
Fox Nest (56): 18 Turns (15 for Manhatten)
Khtovar (54): 19 Turns (15 for Manhatten)
Thebes (50): 20 Turns (16 for Manhatten)

These are base values - not including optimization and city growth.

 

[Strider]

Maybe we can try to build them all? 5 cities 5 wonders. Chances are we won't even have to use thebe's.

PDX: U.N. (start pre-building before hand) & Manhatten (start pre-building beforehand)
Pherris: SETI (start pre-building beforehand)
Fox Nest: Longevity (start pre-building beforehand)
Khtovar:CFC (start pre-building beforehand)

If I'm thinking correctly U.N. is the first wonder we get. PDX should be able to finish the U.N and start pre-building for the Manhatten imediantly.

 

[Chieftess]

Now, we could use Manhatten as a prebuild for SETI. Again, I don't like manhatten, as it allows for nukes. That would force governers to disrupt their build queues for missle defense....

If someone else builds it (or they're starting too), we have a warning.

 

[Cyc]

If we would quit selling or trading our techs away we wouldn't have to worry about the Wonders race. We also have pollution and Modern Armour to worry about.
I normally play for obtaining the Wonders in this order:

UN first,
pre-build SETI with the Manhattan,
switch to SETI, pre-build CFC with Manhattan, pre-build Long.
switch to CFC, switch to Longevity

While watching the AI closely as far as how far they have advanced and in which direction, I will research along the top branch of the tech tree sporadically, as tanks and Mech Infantry can normally keep the AI at bay. I hate cleaning up pollution, so recycling is a must. Depending on the war situation world-wide and my success with the Wonders, I will also move towards Modern Armour.

After I have started CFC and Longevity, I will concentrate on the Apollo Program and after it's completion, build all of the necessary parts to launch, except one. At this time I also pre-build for SMD.

That's how I normally try to play, but then again, I like to milk the game for points. I don't know how much of an opportunity we'll have to do that in this game.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I completely agree with the President's position that we should not finish the Manhattan Project ourselves. It is a inordinate waste of shields for the AI to produce it.

Now, on the otherhand, it generally will be made for us as soon as someone cascades out of the UN, but if we maintain a tech lead, we can put a serious hurtin' on the AI when they lose all of those shields.

Bill
...in PDX, the happiest city in all the land

 

[Chieftess]

We can also use the palace as a 2nd prebuild.

 

[donsig]

As Mayor of Fox Nest I would like to make a motion that we build the UN in Fox Nest. We could use the Pentagon as a pre-build. (BTW - i think the Pentagon should be built in Pherris in honor of that city's ancient Phonenatic military tradition.)

I would further suggest that PDX use the palace to pre-build SETI.

We should also build Apollo, CFC and Longevity - maybe in a different city later on. Civantoria, Khatovar and Thebes should each get a wonder. If we keep our tech lead - and maybe even increase it - we can take our time building some of these wonders.

I support not building Manhattan. If such terrible weapons are possible it would not be the Phoenatic way to use them.

 

[Curufinwe]

It would be wasteful to build it. And such weapons would be deterents, only used if we are attacked, or perhaps we take out the great places in the world to prove our glory, but nay, that isn't the way of I or Phoenatica. We must not attack another now, for those days are past, and now we focus on our economy and Culture.

 

[Plexus]

I agree DWII should be our second and last war, but we should not neglect to build the atomic bombs, they might be useful.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Plexus
I agree DWII should be our second and last war, but we should not neglect to build the atomic bombs, they might be useful.

There is a theory that our first president proposed once. It was based on pollution, and if nukes cause such pollution, then any grass/plains terrain can be turned into desert. With a river, it becomes flood plains. Although, this sounds like a drastic terraforming measure that would require extreme caution and planning (including 'evacuating' the city - i.e., build workers) and build the workers/settlers back in after the terriforming is complete.

 

[Waterz]

Do you really think we should take on the manhattan project? we all know it gives all nations on the continent nuclear weapons, and one bomb could significantly increase Global Pollution.

 

[Chieftess]

[ scratch that post ]

 

[rg3333]

If you build manhattan project it still gives culture, so wouldn't this help our culture war. Also if we are waiting for the AI to build the manhattan project it take ages, because we have to wait for them to research it and then build it. but if we build it first will have an advantage over AI to prepare for the worst.

 

[Cyc]

At present, our plan is to use the Manhattan to pre-build for other Wonders. There is not a need for nuclear weapons on this planet, so if we have to wait a long time for the Manhattan to be completed, so be it. Personally, I don't see it being completed (by Phoenatica, anyways) until after the Wonder Strategic Missle Defense.

 

[Shaitan]

Culture in later wonders tends to be dwarfed by the culture of normal city improvements. 2 Research Labs out-culture just about anything and they're much easier to build.

 

[donsig]

Are we pre-building for any wonders or is it too early?

 

[Cyc]

We are perhaps 15 turns away from obtaining Fission, and we have a leader for the UN. This means Computers could be 25 turns away. Last I looked most of our larger cities could knock out a Wonder in 15 turns or so. Comments?

 

[donsig]

Is that because we're going for rocketry before fission and computers?

EDIT: We'll also get a free tech when entering the modern era. And the NSD science queue was radio / rocketry / fission / computers - or has that changed? We were four turns from radio back in 1540 AD - fifty years ago! Why are we so far away from fission?!?

 

[Cyc]

The anarchy slowed us up. We were 20 turns from obtaining fission (and getting rocketry for free) until we opted to go for Democracy. The 6 turns of anarchy set us back.

 

[Obssesed Nuker]

I suggest that we build the Mannahatan Project after. All all Other Civs are still in the Industrial.