Without the Mids (SSE/WE Immortal wt)

[futurehermit]

Obsolete has shown his strategy can work in a variety of circumstances, with a variety of leaders, proving it is fairly flexible. As I mentioned earlier, however, I think that there are ways to win the game earlier, although he has said he prefers a more sure-thing win, even if it comes later, than a more riskier approach to win earlier. I'm not sure if I agree that other approaches are riskier or not, but there it is.

 

[oyzar]

The trade route is because you don't need sailing to get trade routes on coast intra culture(same for rivers). As for the cottages obsolete isn't trying to play optimally using all the aspects of the game he is using his "style" of play which means no cottages no lighbulbs etc(notice that if he had researched math he could have light bulbed philosophy for example). This leades to a somewhat slower finish time but a win is a win so who cares about the finish time if he win near to 100% of his game this way?

 

[OTAKUjbski]

The trade route is because you don't need sailing to get trade routes on coast intra culture(same for rivers). As for the cottages obsolete isn't trying to play optimally using all the aspects of the game he is using his "style" of play which means no cottages no lighbulbs etc(notice that if he had researched math he could have light bulbed philosophy for example). This leades to a somewhat slower finish time but a win is a win so who cares about the finish time if he win near to 100% of his game this way?

I learnt something new ... I always thought Sailing was needed for coastal trade regardless of culture.

Good to know ... thanks!

 

[Validator]

It's news to me too. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[CivCorpse]

This leades to a somewhat slower finish time but a win is a win so who cares about the finish time if he win near to 100% of his game this way?

100% of the games posted online

 

[The Rook]

300 BC
Hatshepsut is pretty pleased with our early conversion. In fact, she just asked us if we want to take Alphabet for free.
Sure!
-ni

Amazing! I don't believe an AI has ever asked to give me a tech before!

#1 It cuts off Roosevelt from expanding past this area (I refuse to open borders with him at this critical stage). This gives us plenty of room and time to back-fill the other areas, giving us lots of nice room to get the rest of our 6 planned cities optimally placed.

I "think" you would be safe to offer open borders at this stage. I don't believe the AI will every send a settler through your territory, even if there is lots of space on the other side.

Enjoying your write-up btw. This seems to be a challenging position for a WE, considering lack of stone, production tiles, Industrious, and Pyramids. Good stuff!

 

[The Rook]

Why didn´t you cottage the sub-par tiles in your capital.
lack of workers ? no pottery ?

I think Obsolete is renowned for his contempt towards cottages, and he's demonstrating how the Wonder Economy can work with some of the least suitable terrain.

 

[The Rook]

Obsolete is a solid player and his strat is quite innovative. However, I notice in his games that his wins come later than a lot of other top players. That is the only consistent criticism of his game that I have. I think if he expanded more early and tolerated some commerce cities he could win earlier.

I think Obsolete is a Grandmaster at stiffling the AI, which IMHO is a skill in itself.

 

[obsolete]

Also, I never cease to be amazed how few defenders you build.

If I try that I get killed by barbs.

As Gilese mentioned, I have the GW. Gives me INFINIT defense vs Barbs.

Why didn´t you cottage the sub-par tiles in your capital.
lack of workers ? no pottery ?

every hammer is to be taken, I understand, but since you have been working them quite a number of turns, wouldn't it be better to keep 1 or 2 forest tiles, for extra hammers. their value on the long term is greater thant the instant chop.

Combo of me usually skipping the pottery tech, and lack of workers/time. I’m not wasting valuable worker movements on putting a cottage on a tile that will just be teared down (with no pillage benefits) the moment I get workshops ready. There are far more important things to do.

BTW, 20 hammers early, is usually worth more than extra hammers later. Because risking a wonder to save a forest, is not a good gambit.

I've been away from the game for a couple of weeks over the holidays, so maybe my Civ4 knowledge has atrophied, but I can't see how the trade route was established. Can anybody explain it?

If the coast has been EXPLORED (no dark-fog), then it should be fine.

(notice that if he had researched math he could have light bulbed philosophy for example)

Actually, the interesting thing here is that I don’t even want to be the first to get philosophy. Often I am stuck trying to delay it.

Amazing! I don't believe an AI has ever asked to give me a tech before!

Back in Vanilla, the AI was infamouse for trying to GIFT you techs that would obsolete wonders you had. So I was always refusing to take them. Things have changed a lot these days.

I "think" you would be safe to offer open borders at this stage. I don't believe the AI will every send a settler through your territory, even if there is lots of space on the other side.

I have heard of this change before, but I don’t trust it just yet. Better to be safe than sorry, because I have spotted the AI not following this rule 100% when it comes to other AI’s.

 

[obsolete]

PART III – The Medieval Era

425 AD
Alright, I just made another critical mistake. Stupid, stupid, stupid! I forgot to uncheck the philosophy tech selection at the end, and mistakenly founded Taoism! Argggh, when will I EVER LEARN! Again, I felt I wasn’t that advanced because I wasn’t running Rep, but sometimes things come out unexpectedly. Not that I’m not happy about a tech lead here, but…
-ni

525
Congratulations, we now hold half a million…

Chichen Itza was build in a far-away land, that’s alright, we are focusing on AW right now. Time to catch up in mathematics, it will take us 5 turns to research.
-ni

520
Ahh what the hell, lets give Meditation and CoL to Egypt for Pottery & Mathematics. I want the Math really fast so I can get to researching toilet-paper (oops) ASAP.
-ni

580
We used our earlier spy to steal a tech from Roosevelt. This gives us CS, which allows us to run one of my favourite Metropolis civics, Beuracracy.
BTW, I’m 1 turn away from researching sailing. Looks like I must have been wanting to get lighthouses for an extra desperate +1F attempt.
-ni

620
And here is our magical city, #6. I had this settler fortified here a bit earlier, but didn’t want to plant him down too fast because of the exponential city maintenance penalties. But right now we should be ok. We don’t want to wait TOO long, because we need to get their infrastructure up and running as well. Everything takes time.

Note: We chose this spot because it has the only other food-sources available to us. And it is unlikely we’ll build any more cities (we don’t need to). The terrain still sucks, some desert tiles, and desert/hills (hate those) but now with CS, we can try to chain-irrigate or do something to help out. Due to the crappy terrain structure here, we’ll have to remove a forest tile just to give a chance to chain farms here, but at least CS doesn’t come too late. So, time to get those workers…. Working!

Second Note: Colossus was just completed in a far off land, well, guess our sea-techs just got deprecated again, that’s poker.

 

[obsolete]

660
A GP pops.
We have 8 turns left to paper.
Egypt has 4 turns left till construction.
Roosevelt has 1 turn left to Feudalism.
-ni

740
We steal from Roosevelt again. This time gaining Metal Casting.
Not only will this give us our desperate +25% prod boost (forge), but it also allows us to finally lay down WORKSHOPS baby. The only problem is these things will cut into our food-bank even more… ugh. Make sure you balance things well, and keep shifting your plots around.
-ni

840
Woohoo! Angkor Wat is ready for completion. Yup, no stone and no industrious trait, and not much production abouts, but we were able to nab this one anyhow. Though, being the first to philosophy did give us a bit of a head start.

This now means, our 2 running priests & 1 from ToA now double their hammers (every bit helps).

Spoiler :

Note: One workshop is down in the capital already, and trying to grow up population though we run into a health issue at the next pop-level. Now researching education to get last stretch of liberalism race.

Only 1-trade route. Umm… maybe we should try to fix that up soon.

 

[obsolete]

900
A G-Scientist pops. Now we COULD use him to spend 1587b on education. Considering it is going to take us 20 turns to research it right now (cause my efforts are on making a forge), but you know me. I just can’t do it in this pot. Too many better uses ATM.
-ni

940
We hold a million souls.
I’m sort of pissed, I am working on UoS, but a barb ship has just come about and is going to kill my precious sea-food tile! Arg, I feel robbed since I built the GW, shouldn’t it stop that!?
-ni

980
Wow, I am up on the list next to Hatshepsut for Apostolic Palace elections. Hmm, should I….

1 Vote for Hatshepsut
2 Abstain
3 Vote for that idiot called Obsolete?

-ni

1040
9 turns left on education, and I decide to trade philosophy to Egypt for drama and currency. Of course she wants to give me junk like archery & monoethism, but we reject those. We don’t mind giving her extra in our bargains, because it gives us diplo bonuses (and other benefits). Currency really helps here because I want the extra trade-routes, and I have horses now scouting every little dark patch trying to get the best network that we can.

Note: I’m only trading such a powerful tech here, because she doesn’t even have Paper yet, so it shouldn’t cost us the liberalism race at this point.
-ni

1080
Alright, lets give her another deal again. Metal Casting and Paper for construction & Monarchy. We’ll also take world-map. She can keep the other stuff she wants to trade, because again we don’t want to trade-rape her.
-ni

1090
OMG. What a nice Apostolic Palace event to come up.
Assign the American city of seattle to Obsolete (Requires 239 of 386 total Votes).

Hmm… Should, we vote….. yes?
-ni

1090
We steal yet another tech from Roosevelt. This time, Machinery.
Unfortunately, we don’t really have much rivers to do anything wish, so waterwheels won’t help. Windmills can come in a little handy though.

**
And now, we have University of (censored) ready for completion. Woohoo. Often you find out you can build it, but not use it because of religion problems. But here, we can run religion fine, and hence, gain the extra benefits. So now….. We got both AP production, and UoS tech bonus from religious buildings.

Spoiler :

Note: Unfortunately the one lousy river-side at the capital is trapped between our city and a hill. Which means we can’t even use it to irrigate anything! Argg. At least it gives us one lousy commerce on our mine though.

 

[obsolete]

1100
Another GP pops.
We are now 3 turns away from Education which means we will be heading into the Renaissance Era.

Note: You can see our little boat seems a bit damaged, which was due to that stupid barbarian attack that came out of no-where. And if Egypt wont spread Hinduism to Bombay any second, I’ll just do it myself.

Second Note. Should we lightbulb this priest to get….. Monotheism baby!??? Pfffffft.
Why my borders are STILL closed with Roosevelt at this stage is interesting. I think I may have cut relations with Roosevelt due to a request by Egypt at this point.

P.S. I do hope at this point, you all realize we are running either OR or Pac.



And so ends part III, the Medieval Era…

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I hate you for making it look so easy.

Note: Unfortunately the one lousy river-side at the capital is trapped between our city and a hill. Which means we can’t even use it to irrigate anything! Argg. At least it gives us one lousy commerce on our mine though.

Can't you irrigate off the city center using the Grassland 1N of the Corn in Delhi?


I'm a little curious about this one, too:

In your 1090 screenshot completing the University of (censored) (you're a witty one!), there's a Plains Workshop just south of the Corn in Delhi ...

... but then on the next turn in the 1100 screenshot of St. Paul, it's gone.


What did you destroy the Workshop for, and what will replace it?

 

[The Rook]

425 AD
Alright, I just made another critical mistake. Stupid, stupid, stupid! I forgot to uncheck the philosophy tech selection at the end, and mistakenly founded Taoism! Argggh, when will I EVER LEARN! Again, I felt I wasn’t that advanced because I wasn’t running Rep, but sometimes things come out unexpectedly. Not that I’m not happy about a tech lead here, but…
-ni

What's wrong with founding a religion? Even if you don't build shrines, you still have the option for extra happiness and priest slots. I can understand why you wouldn't bother pursuing religion, but is there seriously a problem with founding a religion accidentally?

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

1st, Thanks for these write up's Obsolete, very entertaining and informative. ok onwards with post

1) Thanks Maygar for clearing up the Cultural trading issue, Of course your right....I've just never thought about it.......but then again, I usually have 1/4 tiles between culture of cities...so I need sailing....and Obsolete, your correct, if you have SAILING, and NO UNEXPLORED TILES (BLACK), you can utilise trade routes along coast, *and rivers/Coasts through Cultures you have OPEN BOARDERS WITH. I was going to point out a boo boo, but you've pointed out a bigger one of mine to me...lol

2) Cities provide irrigation chain points POST Civil Service. So Dehli, will provide a point of chain irrigation to the North/East, and your Corn will Irrigate to the South (chained from the Capital)

3) Opening up the Trade routers with the AI, are you sure you need to see the cities to have trade routes with them, or is this a change for 3.13 in BTS? I've never even considered this, But I play a style of Mercantilism/large empire for self....so...different style.

4) Whipping for 3 population, is a general , but as you said, 'don't want to lose the wonder race', and as its IMMORTAL, NORMAL SPEED, and AI has HUGE procuction bonuses...its a :yesyes:

5) Why remove the word shop, I can only think of 2 possible reasons;
a) To build a farm for irrigation purposes
b) To build a farm for food production (Bah, its got to be a)

6) Oh yes...Farms CAN'T CHAIN IRRIGATE ON THE DIAGIONAL...

Obsolete

p.s. did you get the city of Seattle in the vote, or were you just teasing poor Rosie..

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

7)lol, Why haven't you/are you planning to explore that Island to your N.W., I'm sure you could reach it via Galley's, Maybe an unpopped hut, or a post Fedualism Vassal, but the Colony maintaince only rises ABOVE 4 CITIES, so 1/2 cities to grab a Stratergic resource, is available, as long as it pay's for its own maintaince....

 

[Bleys]

6) Oh yes...Farms CAN'T CHAIN IRRIGATE ON THE DIAGIONAL...

Is this a change in BTS from vanilla? I am pretty sure they chain in vanilla.

 

[noto]

Obsolete, how are you snatching all those wonders with such lousy production, first, and second, how the hell, with no cottages or serious GP farms, are you not only keeping up in tech but actually leading?? You aren't running any specialists nor working any cottages. Under rep you would be getting beakers off your settled GPs, but since you're not running rep you are getting, what, 6 beakers from your Gspies and you have 2 or 3 Gscientists....for a total of 24??? Yet, the screen shows you with 110 beakers per turn...which at that stage in the game is satisfactory (still not much for a tech lead). Like others have said I would have liked to see more information, such as looking at the other cities and looking more at the demographics screens, etc. I seriously have no idea how you are producing any beakers in this game. No specialists and no cottages and no rep. Enlighten me, please.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

He was stealing some techs this time, which helps somewhat - he must have been quite backwards at some point because AI gave him free tech.