Wonder Building Bureau

[killercane]

I propose we nominate a director of wonder building, a Gustave Eiffel if you will. This person can give and take direction on where to build what wonder. We need to start a wonder asap if we desire 1 or 2.

GWOF seems to be our best bet to build something useful. It will need a temple to get the extra bonus grass available (and also be content at size 6 w/ no lux slider). Will it be faster to build a granary here and then the wonder? This is the decision for the spreadsheeters (granary, then 6 workers, add in the workers or let it grow normally).

And what wonder(s) do we want?

Pyramids
Pro- its awesome
Con- will get us a Golden Age early

GL
Pro- saves us thousands of gold in tech.
Con- expensive, we are trading production for $$$.

Zeus
Pro- AC are great, and disbandable in culture towns.
Con- more expensive this game.

I think Pyramids and GLibrary are the way to go, we save quite some money in the long run, and the extra pop from Pyramids is much better than the units from Zeus. GL wont be high priority for many, but Pyramids will be. So Pyramids first I think, with worker adds to get us up in size to ensure we build it.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Pyramids with our argicultural trait could be very powerful. I say let's start a pre-build somewhere now.

 

[RFHolloway]

The somewhere is the issue though - not the capital that is our settler pump. Other cities are food heavy and shield light. I suspect the prebuild should be started in a city we haven't built yet.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

So we need to find a location with decent shields and food. get a granary and then go for a pre-build.

 

[jb1964]

We've got several options at the moment.

Building the FP gives us another 20gpt in our GA.

GLib is likely worth what?

Blah, blah, blah... time for bed.

 

[Daghdha]

Is the Glib still on? Is it going to be in SMountain? Has anyone tasted Red Seal Ale? It's one of the best beers I've ever had!

 

[jb1964]

Is the Glib still on? Is it going to be in SMountain? Has anyone tasted Red Seal Ale? It's one of the best beers I've ever had!

AFAIC, The GLib is ON! Tech windfall and nice culture.

Do you mean?

Red Sea Ale (When you drink it it parts in the middle)
Dead Seal Ale (A favorite of Orca's)
Dead Sea Ale (Very Salty)

Red Seal Ale (never had it, but I will now )

 

[RickFGS]

The Great Library is not being built, DSOTM is making a library, ETA 3 turns.

 

[jb1964]

The Great Library is not being built, DSOTM is making a library, ETA 3 turns.

OK, help me understand how if we miss getting the GLib that that will be OK? Seriously, and with all due respect, I'm just trying to figure out what appears to be a change in direction.

Now, the GLib might be available 40 turns from now but our risk of not getting it is going up dramatically as Sabre comes to the understanding that they are being left out in the cold. (side note, if we meet Sabre I would like to start trading w/ them to pull them off the GLib and increase it's value to us by gaining post Education techs.)

There was quite a bit of debate with data to back up positions so I don't want to rehash that. But I would appreciate if we could come to concensus as to delaying the GLib build another 3 turns.

 

[RFHolloway]

I agree with JB, if we are going to build the Great library we need to build it now, with the library afterwards. Building the FP first was sensible, but now I think the race is on.

Sugar mountain has enough shields in it for a library if we switch, presumably it can grow past 6 (i can't quite see where the river goes). If it has no freshwater the palace could switch to a aquaduct. What Spt could we then sustain by adding workers? That might be the better bet than just letting the sheilds ride. If it already has feshwater, then getting applying some worker turns to the area would give us a second powerful production city. As to what wonder it is building - who knows - sistine/Bach's/leo/ToA come to mind (in roughly that order) but there are enough that it would be good to have a shot at.

 

[RickFGS]

The library is ready in 2 tuns maybe 1 if i rush it meaning 17 turns of 50% more research on the 12 level DSOTM and cultural bonus, you really think its wise to make it after?

I call a vote on this issue pls? Choose:

- I want Great Lib Now!

or

- I want my local library now, i love books, Great Lib Later!

 

[killercane]

Well Daghda, JB, and RF want the Great Library. I am neutral. We have a trading partner, and dont have the contacts with the others yet, so TGL is not as imperative. I dont think the couple turns difference will matter so much. If we dont get it, Sabre will, and BABE can invade right at that time. If we get a good comprehensive MA tech deal in place then we can share those benefits.

 

[Daghdha]

I'd like us to have it asap, but I see the possibilty of letting Babes have it by force and share benefits w us so it's no do or die. If Babes get it we have to ink a deal on sharing in some way.

 

[jb1964]

Well, turn 111 has gone from Sabre to Free...

No public notice of the GLib so I'll take that as a good sign for the moment.

I'm only slightly less nervous than I was while waiting on the birth of my children. This will have to go down in the "You play too much Civ if..." thread once we're past turn 112.

 

[jb1964]

I'm taking in the wonder discussion back here and copying my last post re: wonders out of the Turnplay Log where it didn't belong in the first place....

The GL will certainly give us additional choices.]

Colossus - 200s, 3c, expires w/ flight, +1g per tile
HG - 300s, 3c, expires w/ steam, 1 unhappy to content
Leo's - 600s, 2c, never , half the cost
Sun Tsu's - 600s, 2c, never, racks everywhere
Sistines - 600s, 6c, never, double cathedras

Colossus - best c/s ratio but we're way past the 200s. +12gpt would last through ~20 required techs prior to Flight. I'm not sure if we'll need bombers to protect our shores so we may never see it expire. Minimum number of turns researching w/ Babes would be ~50 (600g).

HG - a c/s ratio of 1 but we would also be overspending here as well. Steam would only be ~6 techs away assuming we get the lower tier from the FC axis of dirtbags.

Leo's - half the gold of whatever we have to upgrade for as long as we're upgrading. This could be a lot of coin but I don't know our composition at the moment to take a stab at the total number of gold savings.

Art of War - no

Sistine's - similal c/s ratio as HG & Colossus w/o the overspending but at 2x the price. Provides the largest cpt of all wonders and we like that. Cathedrals go from 3 unhappy/content to 6. With this wonder it's possible that we would never need to use the entertainment slider. Ever. This wonder would likely be available to us for the entire game.

 

[killercane]

Leo's - half the gold of whatever we have to upgrade for as long as we're upgrading. This could be a lot of coin but I don't know our composition at the moment to take a stab at the total number of gold savings.

With the 20 warriors we have now, the gold savings would by 45*20= 900gold. We would surely use it a lot more as well so potential gold savings could be in the 3-4K range.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Sistine Chapel!

 

[Daghdha]

If Sistines doesn't help us to the 100K in any substantial way, I'd say Leo's after consulting my more careful self. We're a sleeping duck atm and should start military pronto after the whip has done it's work. Delay the iron hook-up until we have decided.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

We definitely need military. Won't Sistine double cathedral culture?

Edit: it doubles the effects of cathedrals. which I think means makes more

 

[jb1964]

Both. Leo's first. Sistines will be available to us for the entire game. No other team is should even consider building it. At least that's my opinion at the moment.

I'm guessing Saber's wonder city was on the coast and will almost certainly become the Colossus. I don't think they were anywhere's close to Monarchy so them getting the HG's is never going to happen.

So I would guess that the HG's would be available for some time to come as well but it runs out of steam at, well, Steam and shouldn't be needed if we build Sistines, which never expires.