Wonder Elimination Thread

Chichen Itza (16)
Eiffel Tower (5)
Notre Dame (10)
Great Library (16)
Hagia Sophia (35)
Hanging Gardens (9)
Oracle (3)

Who thinks that a Social Policies is more important than a tech ?
So, take the SP wonder and not the tech wonder.
 
Chichen Itza (16)
Eiffel Tower (5)
Notre Dame (10)
Great Library (13) -3
Hagia Sophia (35)
Hanging Gardens (9)
Oracle (4) +1

A free SP is much better than a free tech and the free SP makes all future policies cheaper.
 
civnoob13 said:
Chichen Itza (16)
Eiffel Tower (5)
Notre Dame (10)
Great Library (13) -3
Hagia Sophia (35)
Hanging Gardens (9)
Oracle (4) +1

A free SP is much better than a free tech and the free SP makes all future policies cheaper.
Click to expand...

Yes ! The free tech doesn't make the other tech cheaper.
 
Chichen Itza (16)
Eiffel Tower (2) -3
Notre Dame (10)
Great Library (13)
Hagia Sophia (35)
Hanging Gardens (10) +1
Oracle (4)

Sadly, you have already killed my favorite wonders ( #1 and #2 ), and I have a problem, which one is my #3 ...

However, ET is here the weakest, for it's relative value. The other wonders in the list are all very good, but under some circumstances the one or other is better. Oracle is better, if you haven't ever get a culture goody hut. HG is awesome if you can switch then the pops to production. GL is damn cheap compared to what it brings. Damn, its really hard.... and ( after 5 min think-time) my #3 is HG.

HG : The +10 food is just awesome at that time. Switch pops to hammers, and/or faster city growth. --> more Science. Or also to build settlers faster. It can be used for various things.

edit : +10 food is awesome in the ancient, but nothing at the industrial age. So, plz don't compare 10 food later, for the benefit of HG. And if, I would question, how many Maritime Cities you normally have in the ancient ?
 
Chichen Itza (16)
Eiffel Tower (2)
Notre Dame (10)
Great Library (13)
Hagia Sophia (36) +1
Hanging Gardens (7) -3
Oracle (4)

HS= best wonder by far.
HG= a bunch of worthless food unless you have the happiness to pay for it. Food is such an easy resource to get, it is the least scarce.
 
Chichen Itza (13)
Eiffel Tower (3)
Notre Dame (10)
Great Library (13)
Hagia Sophia (36)
Hanging Gardens (7)
Oracle (4)

CI is definitely not the second best wonder.
ET gives a lot of happy faces.
 
Chichen Itza (13)
Eiffel Tower (0)
Notre Dame (10)
Great Library (13)
Hagia Sophia (36)
Hanging Gardens (7)
Oracle (5)

I gave a plus for Oracle, because I like the FREE POLICY, and I killed Eiffel Twoer.. well, for me it seems that the Wonder is not "as powerful" in the times as it seems, and I'm only saying because on Chieftain it's not that hard to get happy nation.... (it's quite hard removing points to be perfectly honest, they are all wonederful wonders).
 
Chichen Itza (13)
Notre Dame (10)
Great Library (13)
Hagia Sophia (36)
Hanging Gardens (4)
Oracle (6)

Hanging Gardens is nice, just not nearly as nice as the others. A couple free farms? Meh.

I'll vote Oracle here because I respect the arguments that a free SP is way underrated. It is more important than a free tech. The only way GL outranks it is if you time that free GL tech to slingshot to the Medieval Era and then buy 2 cultural CSes for +24 free :c5culture: per turn around turn 50. That is like 4 Stonehenges in your lap, along with about 15-20 research turns saved. Otherwise, GL is not as good as Oracle.
 
Chichen Itza (13)
Notre Dame (11) +1
Great Library (13)
Hagia Sophia (33) -3
Hanging Gardens (4)
Oracle (6)

ND: Happiness means a huge boost in turns saved (you can put off happiness buildings)

HS: I think you people are overrating it WAY too much. All it does is give a small boost to great people and give a free GP (which is usually an engineer). So all it does is make GP come a bit faster and count as a cheaper wonder. Honestly, how often do you get a great artist or merchant with that thing?
 
insaneweasel said:
Chichen Itza (13)
Notre Dame (11) +1
Great Library (13)
Hagia Sophia (33) -3
Hanging Gardens (4)
Oracle (6)

ND: Happiness means a huge boost in turns saved (you can put off happiness buildings)

HS: I think you people are overrating it WAY too much. All it does is give a small boost to great people and give a free GP (which is usually an engineer). So all it does is make GP come a bit faster and count as a cheaper wonder. Honestly, how often do you get a great artist or merchant with that thing?
Click to expand...

Cheaper? It's absolutely free! Therefore, Hagia Sophia is any wonder you want, which in my opinion makes it better than any single wonder. It can be adapted to any playstyle and is the most versatile of the lot because of this. That's why I think it's the best.
 
civnoob13 said:
Cheaper? It's absolutely free! Therefore, Hagia Sophia is any wonder you want, which in my opinion makes it better than any single wonder. It can be adapted to any playstyle and is the most versatile of the lot because of this. That's why I think it's the best.
Click to expand...

It's only free if you choose one of the wonders in the medieval/ren. age. The only real wonders worth getting are Notre Dame, PT, or Sistine (or an earlier wonder that hasn't been taken). It only saves a few turns if you decide to go for those guys, and if you decide to save it for a later wonder its bonuses peter out, as you are likely to have a great engineer anyway.
 
Chichen Itza (13)
Notre Dame (11)
Great Library (13)
Hagia Sophia (30)
Hanging Gardens (4)
Oracle (7)

Hagia Sophia: Awesome, to be sure. But I'm not sure that it's so much better than the others as to be so far ahead of the pack.

Oracle: Yeah, I upvoted this last time (several days ago now), but I find the early policy really useful. Also, I hate to let my rivals get any SPs any earlier than I have to.
 
civnoob13 said:
Cheaper? It's absolutely free! Therefore, Hagia Sophia is any wonder you want, which in my opinion makes it better than any single wonder. It can be adapted to any playstyle and is the most versatile of the lot because of this. That's why I think it's the best.
Click to expand...

The higher Great person-rate is only an advantage, if you have many specialists. ( but you killed SoL :(, so I guess, more people have rather less specialists and it's only awesome for a later SE Empire). The GE is the short return, which is quite useful. But if I reduce it to the one GE it's meh. However, after ET is killed now, my next downvotes are given for the HS. If I should have missed CI, HS isn't that valueable to me. ... my empire explodes^^, if I enter industrial age and having then CI,HS,SoL and Liberty.

And @ HG-downvoters, have you ever built HG ? The 10 food is awesome in the ancient, and you won't have 10 farms nor 10 maritime CS by that time. Indeed, later the 10 food is nearly nothing, but from the ancient till the renaissance you have an awesome City.
 
Chichen Itza (10)
Notre Dame (11)
Great Library (13)
Hagia Sophia (30)
Hanging Gardens (5)
Oracle (7)

(+) HG : Food = Pop = Science and Free hammers and / or Specialists.
(-) CI : Good for a med / small empire. A must for a Darius game, but it drew the short straw of those on the list now.
 
Chichen Itza (10)
Notre Dame (11)
Great Library (13)
Hagia Sophia (27)
Hanging Gardens (6)
Oracle (7)

(+) HG : My favorite strategy is to rush this as quick as possible then spam other wonders. Since you can focus on production you can spam other wonders in your capital in much much less time. Also your capital grows much faster than usual. Once it is done you can also get out early units in a couple of turns so you can defend after too.
(-) HS : I agree it is one of the best but other than the great person the bonus is not that great compared to the others.
 
NicTeos said:
The higher Great person-rate is only an advantage, if you have many specialists. ( but you killed SoL :(, so I guess, more people have rather less specialists and it's only awesome for a later SE Empire). The GE is the short return, which is quite useful. But if I reduce it to the one GE it's meh. However, after ET is killed now, my next downvotes are given for the HS. If I should have missed CI, HS isn't that valueable to me. ... my empire explodes^^, if I enter industrial age and having then CI,HS,SoL and Liberty.
Click to expand...

The main advantage of hagia sophia is the free great engineer. The actual great person rate increase is just a bonus. Usually people use that ge to rush either notre dame or porcelain tower. In essence you can count hagia sophia as a cheaper (hammer wise) notre dame that you can start building earlier and get a special bonus of more great persons to boot. Also AI tends not to build HS that early so it is easy to hard build. Since Notre Dame is still on the list and HS is just strictly better wonder you shouldn't down vote it yet (or ever).
 
Chichen Itza (10)
Notre Dame (11)
Great Library (10) -3
Hagia Sophia (27)
Hanging Gardens (6)
Oracle (8) +1

I've said it before and I'll say it again: A free SP and cheaper future SPs is much better than a free tech and a tiny bit of maintenance saved.
 
Chichen Itza (10)
Notre Dame (11)
Great Library (10)
Hagia Sophia (24) -3
Hanging Gardens (7) +1
Oracle (8)

HG - awesome city growth, which can be used for awesome production.
HS - There are better wonders, for a SE -strategy, and a GE to rush another wonder, maybe this can useful in some cases, it's not a problem with a HG City and it's production and science through its size. Also there are other sources to get a GE, if you really want a wonder ...
 
Chichen Itza (10)
Notre Dame (11)
Great Library (7) -3
Hagia Sophia (24)
Hanging Gardens (7)
Oracle (9) +1

Agreed on the fact that 1 free SP is much better than 1 free tech.
 
NicTeos said:
HS - There are better wonders, for a SE -strategy, and a GE to rush another wonder, maybe this can useful in some cases, it's not a problem with a HG City and it's production and science through its size. Also there are other sources to get a GE, if you really want a wonder ...
Click to expand...

Really? I must admit that I have never been in a situation where I could say "I have too many great engineers and don't know what to do with them". What difficulty are you even playing? In high difficulties getting hanging gardens can be very hard when AIs like to build it very early and you can't go wonder whoring just like that. While I agree that HG can be nice to have it is off the normal tech progression paths and I'm not comfortable enough to try to grab it when it is so easy to lose the race for it.

Chichen Itza (10)
Notre Dame (11)
Great Library (7)
Hagia Sophia (25) +1
Hanging Gardens (4) -3
Oracle (9)
 
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