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Wonder Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by MantaRevan, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. sendos

    sendos Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,134
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Broadway - 5 It's not a very crucial wonder for CV. Best to aim for Eiffel Tower with your most productive city instead.
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 25 - a must have for archipelago maps and coast starts. +1 trade routes and additional gold from trade routes can help a lot.
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 24
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 33
    Louvre - 20
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 18
    Porcelain Tower - 14
    Prora - 2
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 31
    Stonehenge - 19
    Temple of Artemis - 8
    Uffizi - 12
     
  2. striker4life360

    striker4life360 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Broadway - 8
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 24
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 21
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 33
    Louvre - 20
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 18
    Porcelain Tower - 14
    Prora - 2
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 31
    Stonehenge - 19
    Temple of Artemis - 9
    Uffizi - 12

    The bonus is provided to every city in your empire and easily out produces HG in mid and late game. The difference in early game food is negligible once acquects comes rolling around.
     
  3. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,530
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    Broadway - 8
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 24
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 21
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 33
    Louvre - 20
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 18
    Porcelain Tower - 14
    Prora - 2-3=-1 eliminated only good for warmongers, and aristocracy is not the best ideology in my opinion
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 31
    Stonehenge - 19
    Temple of Artemis - 9
    Uffizi - 12+1=13, I think its a decent culture wonder, fits the Aesthetics tree, bonus is not difficult for me to get
     
  4. rawrtrav

    rawrtrav Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    83
    Broadway - 8
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 24
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 21 + 1 = 22
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 33
    Louvre - 20 - 3 = 17
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 18
    Porcelain Tower - 14
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 31
    Stonehenge - 19
    Temple of Artemis - 9
    Uffizi - 13


    Hanging Gardens is essential for that early growth in my opinion. +6 food is unrivaled and means you can instead focus on production tiles.

    While the Louvre is decent, I find the other culture wonders so much easier to get the bonus from, so because of that Louvre is the weakest one still up here.
     
  5. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    2,379
    Broadway - 2 (-3 from me, -3 from Sendos vote 3 posts above)
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 25
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 22
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 33
    Louvre - 17

    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 20

    Porcelain Tower - 14
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 31
    Stonehenge - 19
    Temple of Artemis - 9
    Uffizi - 13

    It's +1 and -3, not +3 and -1. This would last forever if it were so... Also someone didn't count the vote Sendos made. Fixed the votes.

    Petra is one of the best wonders ever. +1 food and production per desert? Great. A free trade route (two if Venice)? AWESOME. +1 Great Engineer point? Also nice.

    This wonder is pretty much always going to give you more Food than Hanging Gardens. Even assuming you built it in a city which has only 1 desert, that's +1 food, +1 production and +4/5/6 food from internal Trade Route which requires only a simple Granary, not to mention the greater flexibility



    -3 to Broadway. Why is this wonder still in? What does it give? Well, nothing special. Sydney Opera House, Great Library and Prora are in my opinion highly superior, and they're already gone. Definitely the worst on the list.
     
  6. Sake

    Sake Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    145
    Aww, dangit Muffin, you stole my kill :aargh:

    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 25
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 22
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 17
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 20
    Porcelain Tower - 15 - Wait, why is Porcelain so low? Yea, it requires some RA's to reach its full potential, but it makes RA's very powerful combined with rationalism. Free GS is also really nice. Plus AI doesn't grab rationalism that often (at least in my games) so it's pretty easy wonder to get.
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 31
    Stonehenge - 19
    Temple of Artemis - 9
    Uffizi - 10 - Requires 3 art from same era to get theming bonus. It really server only hardcore cultural players. It does give one artist for free yes, but that doesn't make it worth building for anyone not going for cultural win. Nice wonder, but while other wonders serve multiple purposes, this is purely for cultural CV.
     
  7. Verdant

    Verdant Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    14
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 25
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 22
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 17
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 20
    Porcelain Tower - 16 - I love my free great scientists.
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 31
    Stonehenge - 19
    Temple of Artemis - 6 - Maybe because its near impossible to get at immortal. It'd be better for me if it didn't exist (along with every other ancient wonder). I'm just targeting this one because I like stonehenge better for the faith, and you can pick up fertility rites if you really need the growth.
    Uffizi - 10
     
  8. Kintara

    Kintara Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    146
    Location:
    Kailua, HI
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 25
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 19 I like you HG, but...
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 17
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 20
    Porcelain Tower - 16
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 31
    Stonehenge - 19
    Temple of Artemis - 7 Fertility Rites sucks in comparison to the Temple of Artemis. A size 35 city with +10 food would get +1 food from Fertility Rites, but it would get +8 from the Temple. The Temple of Artemis (and Floating Gardens) are food bonuses instead of growth bonuses. In terms of picking it up, it helps that the AI never gets Archery as a bonus starting tech. Anyway, I'm not sure whether I care if it's easy to pick up against the AI, like the Porcelain Tower can be. It's still a good wonder, as are others that go really quickly.
    Uffizi - 10
     
  9. rawrtrav

    rawrtrav Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    83


    Huh? Both Fertility Rites and Temple of Artemis are 10% growth bonuses I'm pretty sure.
     
  10. Kintara

    Kintara Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    146
    Location:
    Kailua, HI
    Yeah, the game doesn't do a great job of explaining it, but you can tell if you count up the food in a city.
     
  11. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 26
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 16
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 17
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 20
    Porcelain Tower - 16
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 31
    Stonehenge - 19
    Temple of Artemis - 7
    Uffizi - 10

    Agree w/Kintara. HG is a good wonder, but ToA is straight up better, and Colossus is way better. You want early food? Colossus gives you as much as HG if you go with an internal trade route. You want late food? Colossus gives you more than HG. You want gold, production, research? Colossus, colossus, colossus. Oh yeah, it's also cheaper, doesn't require any particular policy, and is less sought out by the AI than either HG or ToA. Yes, it was a trash dog in vanilla and GnK, but Colossus is godly in BNW.
     
  12. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 26
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 16
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 17
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 17- Lesson: Dont put a city in the middle of the desert.
    Porcelain Tower - 16
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 32- Yay Production
    Stonehenge - 19
    Temple of Artemis - 7
    Uffizi - 10
     
  13. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,530
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 26
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 16
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 17-3=14, one needs to open the exploration tree to obtain this wonder, exploration is one of the weaker policy trees for me
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 17
    Porcelain Tower - 16
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 32
    Stonehenge - 19+1=20, building this wonder pretty much guarantees you a religion
    Temple of Artemis - 7
    Uffizi - 10
     
  14. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    2,379
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 26
    Eiffel Tower - 33
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 16
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 11

    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 17
    Porcelain Tower - 16
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 32
    Stonehenge - 20
    Temple of Artemis - 8

    Uffizi - 10

    +1 to Artemis. Later on it'll give you much more Food than Hanging Gardens and not only in the capital. On top of that it gives some nice +production on ranged units and 1 GE point if I remember correctly. A great, underrated wonder.

    -3 to Louvre. It's not bad, don't take me wrong, but it requires a lot of work to have any significant benefits. Also, requires Exploration tree, and doesn't fit it much.
     
  15. sendos

    sendos Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,134
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 26
    Eiffel Tower - 34 a great wonder for culture victories and boosting happiness.
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 16
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 11
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 30
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 17
    Porcelain Tower - 16
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 32
    Stonehenge - 20
    Temple of Artemis - 8
    Uffizi - 7 Worst wonder left. It is a rather nice wonder but the theming bonus can be hard to get at times.
     
  16. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 26
    Eiffel Tower - 35- Best wonder for Culture Victory, and even if not going for it, I build it, just to get some tourism to keep happiness up.
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 16
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 11
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 27- Not a big deal for me, unless I am going really wide, which I usually dont.
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21
    Petra - 17
    Porcelain Tower - 16
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 32
    Stonehenge - 20
    Temple of Artemis - 8
    Uffizi - 7
     
  17. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,530
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 26
    Eiffel Tower - 35
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 16
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 11
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 27
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 21+1=22, a better wonder to build than the Parthenon
    Petra - 17
    Porcelain Tower - 16
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 32
    Stonehenge - 20
    Temple of Artemis - 8
    Uffizi - 7-3=4 an okay wonder, but only good for a cultural victory, there are better ones
     
  18. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,815
    Location:
    Lebanon
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 26
    Eiffel Tower - 35
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 16
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 11
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 28
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 22
    Petra - 17
    Porcelain Tower - 13
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 32
    Stonehenge - 20
    Temple of Artemis - 8
    Uffizi - 4

    Porcelain Tower -3 : I like research agreements but they are relatively difficult to attain in BNW and are only worth it if you are the limiting civ.

    Neuschwanstein +1: Fun wonder to build. Reminds you to build up your defenses and rewards you for it. Why not?
     
  19. Arcaian

    Arcaian Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    208
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 26
    Eiffel Tower - 35
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 16
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 11
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 28
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 22
    Petra - 17
    Porcelain Tower - 13-3= 10; Research agreements used to be great, but after BNW and Fall Patch, they're only so-so, especially if you're already strong in tech. Not so great anymore.
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 32
    Stonehenge - 20
    Temple of Artemis - 8+1 =9; ToA hasn't got some love recently, and the food boost is really useful. Combined with Venice and the Hanging Gardens (+ food trade routes) can help getting a massive city, and it's not overly prioritised by the AI.
    Uffizi - 4
     
  20. seanflokstra7

    seanflokstra7 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    517
    Location:
    In your mind
    Chichen Itza - 27
    Colossus - 26
    Eiffel Tower - 35
    Forbidden Palace - 18
    Hanging Gardens - 16
    Leaning Tower of Pisa - 34
    Louvre - 11 + 1= 12: Anytime I try culture victory, I use the Louvre. Sure, it's not the best wonder, but it shouldn't go too early
    Machu Picchu - 21
    Neuschwanstein - 28
    Notre Dame- 24
    Oracle - 22
    Petra - 17 - 3= 14: Anyone who doesn't start on desert tiles, won't need Petra.
    Porcelain Tower - 10
    Sistine Chapel - 33
    Statue of Liberty - 32
    Stonehenge - 20
    Temple of Artemis - 9
    Uffizi - 4
     

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