Wonder pre-build & controlled anarchy

[FreeTheSlaves]

In my current game I missed the wonder I was going for (Leonardo's workshop) and was faced with wasting a lot of shields in my pre-build city.

However, upon examination I saw a chance to switch builds to JS Bachs in 4 turns if I went all out science; problem being that I would complete my palace in 1 turn even after micro-managing.

The solution was to put this one city into "controlled" anarchy, ie:

- move out the MPs (this was the easiest & chosen solution)
- sell happiness improvements (1000yr old temple? no way!)
- lower luxeries (this too was done)
- sabotage luxeries/roads (too many roads on mountains, too painful)

It worked out fine but I did note that the number of shields already accumulated did drop away in that period of "controlled" anarchy as the palace would take longer to build afterwards.

This seems a note-worthy tactic for a rather specific scenario, I haven't seen it mentioned so I thought I'd mention it (again?). Anyone done this?

 

[Stoo.W]

yeah ive done this before. However, I have also tried to reduce the number of worked squares and ended up losing so much population that when it came to turning production back up, i had put myself at a disadvantage There is a sacrifice to be made if your gonna try and do this. I think it would be difficult to get a city into a situation where you can turn production on and off with controlled anarchy without some kind of negative side effect like starvation.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I think it would be difficult to get a city into a situation where you can turn production on and off with controlled anarchy without some kind of negative side effect like starvation.

The city in question had a (maxed) pop. of 11. When I lowered luxeries to 0% and removed the MP garrison it had 6 unhappy citizens & thus anarchy. When I could begin building the wonder I installed the garrison & luxeries - I didn't adjust the tiles because I was going to finish building the palace in 1 turn regardless.

In this specific case the city had foodless mountain tiles to ditch anyway but I would consider starvation (especially with a granary, which again this city had) to a point.

Off hand the biggest negative impact is simply having a city not contribute science/cash/production . I had 20+ cities and within this number a good core of 7 cities that were well developed so the loss of one from the grid wasn't too painful.

 

[JMK]

I do not like the idea to keep a city under anarchy for 4 turns, you will likely loose some improvement. furtheremore, you won't be able to do it in Republic, there is no MP.
I would rather put the city on diet and change all citizen to specialist. Sure I may loose a couple citizen, but this could be easily replaced by joining workers after 4 turns.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I do not like the idea to keep a city under anarchy for 4 turns, you will likely loose some improvement.

Ouch, I didn't know this for certain although I remember something like this in Civ2. Even so, it may still be worth it.

 

[Renata]

What you could try to do is alternate riots and starvation. I.e -- send into riots first turn with the tactics you mentioned, if possible. (No loss of food that turn.) Second turn, pick up enough citizens from their tiles to change the build date to 2 turns at (presumably large-ish) food loss, making enough of them into entertainers to keep the city happy and the rest into taxmen. Third turn back to riots, fourth turn back to starvation. This'll ward off any negative effect from prolonged rioting while (hopefully) keeping the starvation down to a reasonable level.

That said, I don't think I'd ever use such Draconian measures just for Bach's, except *maybe* in a 20K game. It's more useful, I think, when you're in anarchy between governments, and one or two particularly large towns just won't stay happy without making so many citizens into specialists that the town starts to starve after a few turns. Letting the town riot every other turn cuts the food loss in half, approximately.

Renata

 

[eldar]

Starvation doesn't work. As soon as the pop drops, the governer will re-assign the citizens to tiles. And because food is calculated before shields, you get all the shields, and thus the pre-build completes. This I learned painfully in COTM04

Neil.

 

[JMK]

Starvation doesn't work. As soon as the pop drops, the governer will re-assign the citizens to tiles. And because food is calculated before shields, you get all the shields, and thus the pre-build completes. This I learned painfully in COTM04

Neil.

Yes, this is right, so the idea of Renata to alternates riots and starvation to avoid loosing a citizen.
Another possibility would be to revolt and go to anarchy, but this may last longuer than 4 turns!

 

[Stoo.W]

complete anarchy wouldnt work because then you dont get any science - therefore you dont get the next science which allows the building of the wonder in the first place.

 

[Stoo.W]

The city in question had a (maxed) pop. of 11. When I lowered luxeries to 0% and removed the MP garrison it had 6 unhappy citizens & thus anarchy.

did this not mean you also had to stuffer some starvation - the loss of 6 worked tiles must surely have meant a loss of food?? even with a full box of food - 4 turns of heavy starvation must have meant the loss of at least 1 citizen. Having said that - with a size 11 city, I doubt it would affect production too much. In another situation though, this tactic is sometimes not worth it.

 

[TimBentley]

complete anarchy wouldnt work because then you dont get any science - therefore you dont get the next science which allows the building of the wonder in the first place.

Hypothetically, you might be able to finish researching using scientists. But in most (I'm pretty sure that includes the situation described here) situations, that won't be enough. Regardless, anarchy would be a bad move just to build JS Bach's Cathedral.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

did this not mean you also had to stuffer some starvation - the loss of 6 worked tiles must surely have meant a loss of food??

The map is 3billion years old with a huge mountain range cutting through my empire. I had irrigated everything I could but was working several non-food tiles plus the granary was 1/2 full.

In the end it didn't matter because I worked every tile & just put the city into controlled anarchy (lowered luxeries to 0% & removed the MPs) for 3 turns until I had musical theory (? - Bachs). It worked a treat.