Wonder Rush
- Thread starter dominatr
- Start date
Say 4 nations are all worker on a 600 shield wonders. One completes it and the others are forced to switch to something. If another wonder can be built, they switch to it. If they had 500 shields into the original wonder and the one the switched to needs only 400, boomit is done.
Now the next civ must switch and it may have enough to finish the 3rd in the list and so on. If no wonders, then they get an expensive item like a 500 shield musket or whatever.
Now the next civ must switch and it may have enough to finish the 3rd in the list and so on. If no wonders, then they get an expensive item like a 500 shield musket or whatever.
Basically.
What would you do if you were building an expensive wonder and another AI built it shortly before you finished? You'd swap to another wonder at your first opportunity, right, even if it cost you some shields.
The AI does the same thing. On its turn, it swaps the build. If that has enough shields to build the new wonder, then it gets built.
You can use one of the F key's to find out which civs are building which wonders in which town. Often, if a civ can build multiple wonders, it will tie up multiple towns building them. That also increases the chances for a wonder-cascade.
It's exactly as others have said - you get a "Wonder cascade" where Ur finishes Great Library, so Moscow which was building Great Library changes to Oracle and finishes it, then Zimbabwe which was building Oracle changes to Temple of Artmemis and finishes that, and Washington which was also building Oracle changes to Mausoleum of M and finishes that.
The most annoying thing about AIs beating me to Wonders - especially when it cascades like this - is not so much the loss of the chance to build it myself, but being left with a city with 400+ shields invested. Often you can end up with no Wonder left to build until you research another tech - after one turn, you have to "switch production to something totally useless like Colosseum" and waste enormous effort.
I use the Investigate City along with the F7 (Wonders being built) screen to figure out how long an enemy will be taking. Also withhold key techs (Music Theory, for example) until I know I've got the Wonder in the bag.
The most annoying thing about AIs beating me to Wonders - especially when it cascades like this - is not so much the loss of the chance to build it myself, but being left with a city with 400+ shields invested. Often you can end up with no Wonder left to build until you research another tech - after one turn, you have to "switch production to something totally useless like Colosseum" and waste enormous effort.
I use the Investigate City along with the F7 (Wonders being built) screen to figure out how long an enemy will be taking. Also withhold key techs (Music Theory, for example) until I know I've got the Wonder in the bag.
Hellfiredoom
Warlord
Nothing I love more than shopping out a tech the turn before my Wonder finishes.
It's great fun, but I prefer doing it the turn after I've finished the Wonder. I've been bitten on the **** a couple of times by selling the tech just one turn earlier. (I wonder, are you earning more money by selling the tech when the Wonder hasn't been built yet? It would make sense).
It's only happened a few times, but sometimes the AI manages to immediately switch to e.g. JS Bach's, and finish it on the inter-turn, leaving me high and dry! This is maddening. Possible explanations:
a) The AI happens to be 1 turn away from a Wonder that costs the same.
b) The AI is over production for JS Bach's, because building a more expensive Wonder, but decides JS Bach's is a better bet (which it almost certainly is!)
c) I think I read somewhere here that AI civs can use Military Great Leaders to hurry anything, including Great Wonders.
c above is something you just can't fight against; but I keep a close eye on the other possibilities by using the Investigate City screen whenever I get the "Russians are building Wonder X" message, and recording the results so that I don't have to Investigate City again for a while (spreadsheet attached to post #10 in this thread). You also get great info on the enemy's resource, luxuries, science rate and typical size of city defence from this screen. With this information and sometimes with a hunch, I sometimes feel safe to sell a tech just before I complete the Wonder, like Hellfiredoom.
Everything I've seen and read indicates that the AI can use MGLs to rush wonders, but I can't say that I've ever really tested it.
The GLib: gives you any tech known by two civs with whom you have contact, up until and including the turn on which you learn Education, including technologies that lie beyond Education in the tech tree.
The GLib: gives you any tech known by two civs with whom you have contact, up until and including the turn on which you learn Education, including technologies that lie beyond Education in the tech tree.
I believe it was verified 2 - 3 years ago that a bug in the code allows the AI to use *any* Great Leader to build a Wonder. Only the human player is unable to use the MGL for one.
PaperBeetle
Emperor
If you sell the tech when your is build is at '1 turn to complete' you are guaranteed to get the wonder (unless something happens to your town to alter its shield income, like a riot or pollution or whatever) because you are #1 in the turn order. If you sell a tech like Music or Artistry when its wonder is already built, the AI will pay virtually nothing for it.
dominatr
Smoke Jaguar
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2010
- Messages
- 922
so, essentially, you can build gLib, put you science slider to zero, and still get techs while other civs put lots of effort into them, and you can just sit back and collect them until education.
my question here is , is there a possible way to avoid getting education and getting every tech that doesnt have it as a prereq and then getting education last?
my question here is , is there a possible way to avoid getting education and getting every tech that doesnt have it as a prereq and then getting education last?
Bingo.
On building the GLib and avoiding education . . . With the GLib, you don't really get to choose what you get or when, but I suppose you could build the GLib and collect techs until right before you get educ. Then give the city away for a while, avoid researching Educ and recapture it when you're ready. The problem is that you could not leave the Middle Ages until you'd either recaptured the GLib or given up and researched Educ. If you waited too long, you could find the GLib city guarded by Infantry . . .
On building the GLib and avoiding education . . . With the GLib, you don't really get to choose what you get or when, but I suppose you could build the GLib and collect techs until right before you get educ. Then give the city away for a while, avoid researching Educ and recapture it when you're ready. The problem is that you could not leave the Middle Ages until you'd either recaptured the GLib or given up and researched Educ. If you waited too long, you could find the GLib city guarded by Infantry . . .
Hellfiredoom
Warlord
Even when I get the GLib, I continue researching towards Military Tradition, letting the GLib run me up the Education portion of the tech tree. I know I'm losing out on tons of gold this way, but as a war-monger I don't want to "wait" until I receive Education before researching towards MT. I would just use the gold for buying the techs to MT anyhoo, so "6 of one....". I figure I end up in the same spot (ie with MT), but without the AI getting any gold from me. Unorthodox I know, but works for me.
Optional
Deity
How are you losing out on the money? I recently even researched Theology when I had the GLib. The gpt the AI was willing to pay for that was much more than what I would have saved by not using the science slider.
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