wonderbread
- Thread starter mardukes
- Start date
funxus
Orange Cycloptic Blob
I've never heard of it, but I suggest you search this forum
...
I did a search, but couldn't find anything that seamed to match.
...
I did a search, but couldn't find anything that seamed to match.
from Solo's dissertation on "early landing" strategy:
"...but if there is a lack of suitable terrain, it may be more convenient to keep it at a minimal size, having the station start accumulating shields in an unused wonder, acting as the recipient of the wonder bread food freights that the SSC will be producing to unblock its supply commodities."
"...but if there is a lack of suitable terrain, it may be more convenient to keep it at a minimal size, having the station start accumulating shields in an unused wonder, acting as the recipient of the wonder bread food freights that the SSC will be producing to unblock its supply commodities."
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
It's one of Solo's supply and demand unblocking techniques. It has to do with dumping food caravans (i.e., "bread") into wonders to free up trade goods supplies (I think). Check out the Early Landing Guide in the apolyton strategy forum or someone who plays the ELG's like Elephant can probably explain it.
Sorry I missed this one; I've been "away from home".
If you are playing One City Challenge or Early Landing Game you should be checking your SSC every turn to see if any commodities are unblocked (this is assuming you play without caravan rehoming, which is permitted for GOTM but not for ELG). At some point you may notice that the three commodities you have listed are not the same as the three commodities that are listed in your trade routes (also assuming that you do not have an undelivered SSC caravan sitting around or on its way somewhere). You have an opportunity to free up any commodity that is blocked but not listed in the trade route list, but it takes a trick that has been titled WonderBread to do it. You have to start a Wonder in the SSC by using up a food caravan (you could use a commodity caravan too, but that is far more valuable), which triggers a refresh of the SSC commodity list. It should happen right away if it is going to work (a few times it has not; check the detail in Solo's EL Guide); then switch the SSC to building a caravan (losing half of the shields), and purchase the rest of the shields that the SSC is not going to complete that turn to get the caravan next turn. Also note that cities can change their commodities lists every 16 turns (the "Solo cycle") based on the order in which they were created, so if you can calculate your SSC's cycle you should know when to look for a change and when to hurry up a caravan before an imminent change.
This trick is pretty powerful if you get three trade routes going early in the game with fast growing AI cities, especially if they are on your continent and you set up a RR or StationCity link to get the extra RR trade bonus. Trade commodities lists change over time, and if you can "freeze" the early routes you will be free to repeat making the later commodities ad infinitum. Just be careful not to deliver any to a city that has more trade than one of the ones you have existing trade routes with. Once your SSC is up to speed (producing 100+ trade arrows) it does not matter much how big the other city is; as long as it demands the goods and is located on another continent you will still get pretty close to the max payout.
Solo's Early Landing Guide:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82209
Samson's Calculating Supply and Demand Formulas:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67754
Samson's Calculating Delivery Payments:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64729
If you are playing One City Challenge or Early Landing Game you should be checking your SSC every turn to see if any commodities are unblocked (this is assuming you play without caravan rehoming, which is permitted for GOTM but not for ELG). At some point you may notice that the three commodities you have listed are not the same as the three commodities that are listed in your trade routes (also assuming that you do not have an undelivered SSC caravan sitting around or on its way somewhere). You have an opportunity to free up any commodity that is blocked but not listed in the trade route list, but it takes a trick that has been titled WonderBread to do it. You have to start a Wonder in the SSC by using up a food caravan (you could use a commodity caravan too, but that is far more valuable), which triggers a refresh of the SSC commodity list. It should happen right away if it is going to work (a few times it has not; check the detail in Solo's EL Guide); then switch the SSC to building a caravan (losing half of the shields), and purchase the rest of the shields that the SSC is not going to complete that turn to get the caravan next turn. Also note that cities can change their commodities lists every 16 turns (the "Solo cycle") based on the order in which they were created, so if you can calculate your SSC's cycle you should know when to look for a change and when to hurry up a caravan before an imminent change.
This trick is pretty powerful if you get three trade routes going early in the game with fast growing AI cities, especially if they are on your continent and you set up a RR or StationCity link to get the extra RR trade bonus. Trade commodities lists change over time, and if you can "freeze" the early routes you will be free to repeat making the later commodities ad infinitum. Just be careful not to deliver any to a city that has more trade than one of the ones you have existing trade routes with. Once your SSC is up to speed (producing 100+ trade arrows) it does not matter much how big the other city is; as long as it demands the goods and is located on another continent you will still get pretty close to the max payout.
Solo's Early Landing Guide:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82209
Samson's Calculating Supply and Demand Formulas:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67754
Samson's Calculating Delivery Payments:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64729
a) specifically, the first 50 shields of the wonder must come from a caravan? Or any 50?
b) so the routes being different from the list causes list members to unblock, but are you saying it also keeps the list from changing?
c) this seems contradictory or are you saying that once the SSC gets that big we don't care about the list changing anymore? What is the process for choosing which existing route will be replaced by the new one?
____________________________________________
Let me tilt once again: for those who care, the year is AD 2003, not the other way around
a) I believe that is so - regular shield production or disbanding a unit does not do it. I think you could use an SSC food caravan in another city, but then you do not get the half-start on the new commodity caravan in the SSC. See Solo's EL Guide for more details.
b) No - see Samson's exhaustive Determining Supply and Demand thread to calculate what causes changes in the lists. A supply commodity that is blocked and not listed among the 3 trade routes can be unblocked via WonderBread (or a regular delivery of a commodity); a supply commodity that is blocked and also listed in the trade route list cannot be unblocked deliberately, but if the lists change it can be unblocked (or more likely, another commodity will join the list and something will drop off).
c) When the SSC has a lot of trade it dominates the calculation of the ongoing Trade Route benefit. I dont have the regular TR formula with me at the moment, but it is something like (T1 + T2)/8, where T1 is the number of base trade arrows (subtract existing trade routes) in your city and T2 is that of the destination city. So if your SSC has 100 arrows and the destination city has 1 the TR would be 12 (rounded down), while if the destination has 10 the TR is 13 (AI cities with base trade over 10 are rare birds!). The game program compares the size of the new TR to the three existing ones and only swaps it in if it is larger (the smallest drops off). So if you dont want to cause one of the existing TRs to drop off, see if you can lower the number of arrows just before the caravan enters the city (of course, you will get a lower bonus payment too), or if the destination city is yours you could monkey with its trade before delivery. Once the delivery is completed you can restore the arrows immediately; the TRs will stay the same.
Note that I am dropping consideration of the trade route modifiers, which can skew these calculations significantly but obscure the base city comparisons. In order of effect they are:
-Same civ: -50%
-Different continent: +100%
-"Optimal" Rail connection: +100%
-Superhighways at home: +50% (in both: +100%)
-"Optimal" Road connection: +50%
-Airport at both ends: +50%
