Wonders and Uniqu Features Design

[Psychic_Llamas]

This is a list of wonders from the Civ 3 Mod for WH. what does every one think? whaich ones shall we make for Civ 4 mod?

Wonders:
The Black Library
Bugmans Brewery
Dwarf Engineers Guild
Fireworks
Gnome Workshop
The Grand Cathedral
The Great Bazzar
The Great Forge
The Great Voyage
Hall of Kings
Imperial Explorer
Lighthouse of Manaan
Miracle Cure
Palace of the Wizard Caliph
The Pillar of Skulls
The Silk Route
The Spice Road
the Sisters of Shallya
The Suiddock
Tarnhelm's Keep
Vloedmuur
The Witch Hunt

Unique Wonders:
The Black Pyramid of Nagash (Khemri)
The Pyramid of Eternety (khemri)
Al-Alnon's Gardens (Araby)
The Brotherhood of the Bear (old World Civs Only)
The Knights Panther (old World Civs Only)
The Ordeer of the Fiery Heart (old World Civs Only)
The Order of the White Wolf (old World Civs Only)
Order of the Blazing Suns (old World Civs Only)
Gates of Zharr (Chaos Dwarf)
Pagoda Palace (Nippon, Cathay, Ind)
Su Lim Monestary (Nippon, Cathay, Ind)
the White Tower (Highelves)
Tower of the Eternal Wood (Woodelves)
That-Dark-Magic-Tower-I-Can-Never-Remember-The-Name-Of (Darkelves)

Unique Features:
Altar of ultamate Darkness
The Cursed Pit
The Moot
Mount Arachnos
The Oak of Ages
The Springs of Eternal Life
Vauls Anvil
Drachenfels castle? (possibly a Vampire Counts unique wonder if its too Overpowered as a UF)

Equipment Wonders:
Anvil of Doom
Libre Mortis
Libre Bubonicus (Skaven)
Olde Wierde's Incanublum

Note being used:
Chaos Moon
Chaos Node
Citadel of Sunset (will be a city for the Highelves)
Cult of Pleasure (should be a guild)
Thieves Guild Charter (should be a guild)
Fighters Guild Charter (should be a guild)
Warpstorm (will be a spell or ritual)

 

[kairob]

They all look good but I think that Errenty War/Holy war should be out, either replaced by cheeper drafting for those factions or a 'war' type civic...

 

[deadliver]

This is a list of wonders from the Civ 3 Mod for WH. what does every one think? whaich ones shall we make for Civ 4 mod?

Wonders:
Al-Alnon's Gardens
The Black Library
Bugmans Brewery
Dwarf Engineers Guild
Fireworks
Gnome Workshop
The Grand Cathedral
The Great Bazzar
The Great Forge
The Great Voyage
Hall of Kings
Imperial Explorer
Lighthouse of Manaan
Miracle Cure
Palace of the Wizard Caliph
The Pillar of Skulls
The Silk Route
The Spice Road
the Sisters of Shallya
The Suiddock
Tarnhelm's Keep
Vloedmuur
The Witch Hunt

Unique Wonders:
The Black Pyramid of Nagash (Khemri)
The Pyramid of Eternety (khemri)
The Brotherhood of the Bear (old World Civs Only)
The Knights Panther (old World Civs Only)
The Ordeer of the Fiery Heart (old World Civs Only)
The Order of the White Wolf (old World Civs Only)
Errantry War (Bretonnia)
Gates of Zharr (Chaos Dwarf)
Holy War (Araby)
Pagoda Palace (Nippon, Cathay, Ind)
Su Lim Monestary (Nippon, Cathay, Ind)
the White Tower (Highelves)

Unique Features:
Altar of ultamate Darkness
The Cursed Pit
The Moot
Mount Arachnos
The Oak of Ages
The Springs of Eternal Life
Vauls Anvil

Equipment Wonders:
Anvil of Doom
Libre Mortis
Libre Bubonicus (Skaven)
Olde Wierde's Incanublum

Note being used:
Chaos Moon
Chaos Node
Citadel of Sunset (will be a city for the Highelves)
Cult of Pleasure (should be a guild)
Thieves Guild Charter (should be a guild)
Fighters Guild Charter (should be a guild)
Warpstorm (will be a spell or ritual)

There is an order of knights based in Estalia...I think their patron god is Myrmidia. If you want I will get the name of the group for you as I think that if the Empire gets Whitewolf and Knight's Panther Wonders, then the Estalian one should also be included. The Order were responsible for the crusades against Araby. I think they were called Order of the Sun or something, I will check with my gaming buddies this weekend err you know after I get back from err the orgy yeah...

I think perhaps Bugman's Brewery should be a unique feature instead of a Wonder because after Bugman's brewery was destroyed he never rebuilt it, instead becoming a mercenary.

Perhaps a monster spawning special feature Drachenfels castle could be cool. Drachenfels is an evil sorceror who is so old that he tangled with the original Sigmar (and back then he was an ancient evil too!) He is basically a lich if I remember correctly and his castle could spawn second tier or higher monsters such as Skeletons, daemons or other unpleasantness.

those are all I can think of right now.

 

[kairob]

The knightly order in estelia is still loyal to the Empire IIRC. If that guys castle is Cannonical then go for it, sounds pretty neat.

 

[deadliver]

Well Drachenfels castle is usually shown on the maps, I think somewhere near Sylvania. Also it makes sense the Knightly order in estalia is loyal to the Emperor becaused Myrmidia is really an Empire Human deity iirc. But

would be a real nice little flavor thang for the Estalians.

 

[Masada]

Myrmidia isnt from the Empire shes from Tilea... the only places in the Empire where she is worshipped in any large numbers is in the South and thats only because they are near to the Tilea.

Drachenfels is in Slyvania and from memory the Von Carstiens used to live there (of course Slyvania was always a poor and somewhat dark place in the Empire... so it wouldnt surprise me if something lived there before the present masters of Slyvania came to power)

I dont know of any Knigtly Orders of the Empire residing in Estalia... i know that the Knights Panter and Blazing Suns were founded in Estalia during the Crusades but that they spend most of the time fighting in the Empire. One of the two is dedicated to Myrmidia... but honestly of the top of my head i cant remeber.

 

[deadliver]

I am going off of the RPG stuff from way back when. She is related to one of the Empire gods...well actually they are all related to each other cept sigmar. She is popular in Tilea but not from there.

The Blazing Suns are the Myrmidian group. iir you could pick them up as a unit in the Empire battle army, prolly just a nod to old background material. That is an interesting point you made, I think that the humans should share being able to build these knightly orders. Perhaps having the building to get these knights could provide a positive diplomatic bonus between the different civs who have the same building? That way the humans would get along better even though they are all cramped up. Would give players a choice, try to get along diplomatically and form alliances or "crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women." -Conan, ripping off Ghenghis Khan. I guess what it comes down to is that the human civs share similar backgrounds and this should be reflected by a higher level of cooperation.

Bretonnia and the Empire are big rivals but most of their actions towards each other consist of embargoing Bretonnian Brandy and sending insultingly comical dwarf diplomats to altdorf.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Cool i added the Order of the Blazing Sun in as an oldworld only wonder.

moved al-alnons garden to an araby only wonder.

removed the holy war and errantry war wonders.

added in Drachenfels castle as a UF, but it could possibly be beter as a Sylvanian wonder if its too over powered as a feature (look at barbatos in ffh, if you start near him your screwed., sylvaninas will be doomed if Drachenfels castle is a UF)

 

[Masada]

That is true. The Empire and Brettonia dont get along all the time... well very little of the time... but they are closer in relations than say the Orcs etc...

From memory and i cant be bothered to pull out the White Dwarf she is actually from Tilea... most of the old world human gods are its quite simply older than the Empire.

Sigmar, Ulric and Taal are "Empire Gods" even though Taal isnt from the Empire. Those are the 3 most worshipped inside the Empire. But it doesnt really matter.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

If evil/undead priests could have a chance of wresting controll over enemy undead troops inside cultural borders, an undead spawning feature would be a resource rather than a menace to those civs.
Only applicable no non-hero/mage undead units, with maybe success chance of (100-EXP)/unitcost?
Giving smiting/turning powers to good/neutral civs too early would render undead troops useless however.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

ive got a dominate undead spell planned for the necromancy line of spells.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

ive got a dominate undead spell planned for the necromancy line of spells.

careful can quickly end up as whack a mole mechanic. Try to limit this to only convert barbarian units to your own. Else war between Khemri and Lahmia would hardly be enjoyable.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

true that ploep. ill keep that in mind when i implement it. although Khemri will not have access to ANY magic except their 4 incantations.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

true that ploep. ill keep that in mind when i implement it. although Khemri will not have access to ANY magic except their 4 incantations.

would be even worse then.

 

[kairob]

as all their undead would be stolen by lhamia? You do make a good point. Although I think that khemri should be immune to this effect anyways.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

as all their undead would be stolen by lhamia? You do make a good point. Although I think that khemri should be immune to this effect anyways.

If there's a conflict between sylvania and Lhamia the whack a mole would be there again. Stick to barbs only that's better also fluffwise as civcontrolled undead can be counted as controlled by necromancer while barbunits might be free undead(caused by start constellations or whatever)
Another problem will be Nagash and his troops though as they are near Lhamia this spell would maybe boost them too much.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

yeah, your right again guys. what if a control undead spell was a limited use spell, like domination in FfH? make it have a chance of converting all enemy undead adjacent to the caster, but the caster loses the ability to cast the spell again untill he gets the promo back?

 

[Arexack_heretic]

Ploep is right, I was worrying about the same thing...

limiting the 'assert mastery' spell to barbarians only would make a nice spell,
making it one-fire only might be good on a high level spell that works on any player's units...'

...could we invent a system that takes into considderation the number of undead troops vs the number of necromancers, to determine the effect of using the spell on another undead employing civ. Comparing both ratios.
...maybe give a good chance of being resisted if an enemy necromancer is in the target-area. (Penalty for rear-generalship use of necromancers: your controll is shaky.)

 

[rocklikeafool]

I have a suggestion. Make it simple. Have it so it can be cast once a turn, jus like every other spell, and can only convert Barb Skeletons. That eliminates all the problems you guys seem to be seein here. It also makes it so there doesn't need to be any buffer spells or other fancy . .. .. .. .. Most important rule, never make it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

better to considder all complicated options and failures and then trim the concept to it's mosty fundamental form.

We...at least I, tend to overcomplicate stuff, a personal flaw but usefull sometimes.
It is also easy to forget about the scale of CIV. As WH is really localized battlefield-scale, while civ is broad empire scale. Often concepts that work for HW tabletop just don't translate that well.