[submod] RFC Dawn of Civilization: Aeons - Version 1.3! (34 new Civs! New wonders, buildings, units, and an overhaul of various mechanics!)

[Hickman888]

Beyond that, there’s plenty more I want to add. My scope for adding civs is pretty relentless, so I can see space for just about any region to get some new civs (except Middle East, and Africa, following 1.4, though even in the Middle East I feel like there’s a good case for adding a Turkoman civ, as well as modern Iraq, and maybe even the Ilkhanate???) Anyways, I’ll probably put up another poll and see what you guys favour.

I would love to see a Hawaiian Kingdom civilization.

 

[Maggy_domain]

Vwnicw?

 

[Rodnok]

The trick is to use your strong economy to citizenship rush units, and your initial crusaders are incredibly powerful, and you could immediately try to push into Egypt. I may give the UHV another check though, since both times I attempted it, Egypt was already being bothered by Crusaders which made conquering them easy.

Thanks, with Citizenship it was easy indeed. I managed to conquer Egypt some turns before 1200 AD. Funny that a crusade event was announced just afterwards, so they went against Tunis and captured it for a short time only.
Abandoned the Republic idea and used the first Great Prophet to spread Catholicism in Egypt - good job.
However, I still fail to research all Medieval techs in 88 turns (Epic speed). With entire Egypt and focus on research my best research time for one tech is like 15-18 turns. On Monarch the civs arent willing to trade. AI would rather capitulate or be destroyed than giving a single tech for peace.
Same for the culture goal... even with the Jerusalem unique power and buildings I am far from that culture requirement (15.000 total). There are maybe 2 wonders available to be build and one cathedral. So it needs some luck to get Great Artists.
Maybe farming XP from attacking Oghuz and using great generals for Golden Age, instead of leading Crusader units?

 

[Rodnok]

Ah, so the Great Generals can start Golden Age in Argentina only . But I guess Golden Ages and farming GPs is the solution... probably Republic isn't a bad idea after all.

 

[Apple111111]

Ah, so the Great Generals can start Golden Age in Argentina only . But I guess Golden Ages and farming GPs is the solution... probably Republic isn't a bad idea after all.

Egypt is a hot-spot for both commerce, research and population. Using its population to churn out Great People while keeping high commerce is key. If you find yourself short on cash, Mecca is an option, and will raise your income by 30 or so.

 

[Apple111111]

Just playing a chill Roman game, and... No idea if this is caused by Aeons or not, but... Celts have workboats on land

Spoiler boats on land :

View attachment 728844

Found the fix to this one. It's a pretty quirky one. Essentially, Celts were set to create "Work" units on birth, however, due to the Barbarian Kingdom gimmick, they actually can't make workers, so I guess Work Boats are considered the next best thing??? Anyways, I changed it by removing their "Workers" on spawn.

 

[damienreave]

Thanks for solving the bug!

I also think it would be interesting to break up China into several powers. Start with Xia like China is now, then Shang in 1600 BC, Baiyue in the south in 1300 BC, Zhou in 1000 BC, Xiongnu in the north in 300 BC, and Han in 200 BC. Then spawn in three powers for the Three Kingdoms period in 220 AD (Wei, Shu and Wu). Then Sui in 580 AD, Tang in 620 AD, Song in 960 AD and Ming in 1370 AD. Yuan is just the Mongols so no need to add for that.

Might be tough to come up with interesting and unique UHV for everyone though. And maybe skip the Tang, to give the Sui long enough to do stuff.

 

[SomethingAboutBears]

For 1.5, I'd love to see more new world nations represented. Not sure how that would affect European colonization and native tech rate, but it would be good to see all continents represented (somewhat) equally. Agreed with the split of China, and I would propose adding a Manchu nation (either before or after the mongols). Baiyue could be an extension of Vietnam perhaps?

 

[banzay13]

Thanks for solving the bug!

I also think it would be interesting to break up China into several powers. Start with Xia like China is now, then Shang in 1600 BC, Baiyue in the south in 1300 BC, Zhou in 1000 BC, Xiongnu in the north in 300 BC, and Han in 200 BC. Then spawn in three powers for the Three Kingdoms period in 220 AD (Wei, Shu and Wu). Then Sui in 580 AD, Tang in 620 AD, Song in 960 AD and Ming in 1370 AD. Yuan is just the Mongols so no need to add for that.

Might be tough to come up with interesting and unique UHV for everyone though. And maybe skip the Tang, to give the Sui long enough to do stuff.

In cross modmod those 2 China (Wu and Sui) constant at war, one of them always respawn, while other unstable. And it's hurt China's development overall. So, all new chinese civs must have strict historical borders for resurrection.

 

[soul-breathing]

To split China civilization into 2 or more different civs, as a Chinese, I think it's inappropriate.
Both so-called North or South China civilization, they all represent several dynasties in Chinese history. You can't consider Qin, Han, Tang as North China, meanwhile consider Jin, Song, Ming as South China. They are all dynasties of China civilization.
For example, it's ridiculous to split Roman civilization into Gaul Roman, African Roman, Illyria Roman, although such a state of division did exist during the period of Tetrarchy.

 

[1SDANi]

To split China civilization into 2 or more different civs, as a Chinese, I think it's inappropriate.
Both so-called North or South China civilization, they all represent several dynasties in Chinese history. You can't consider Qin, Han, Tang as North China, meanwhile consider Jin, Song, Ming as South China. They are all dynasties of China civilization.
For example, it's ridiculous to split Roman civilization into Gaul Roman, African Roman, Illyria Roman, although such a state of division did exist during the period of Tetrarchy.

Yeah, it really is just a mandate of heaven system but worse. Now that players are separate from slots a system where a civ can collapse into multiple copies of itself is theoretically possible, but unless the AI gets a ton of improvements that will just lead to the same issues that led to Leoreth removing the city secession feature. It's all just more trouble than it's worth.

 

[SomethingAboutBears]

Perhaps you could make a case for the Liao, Jurchen Jin, Yuan, and Qing dynasties being playable, separate from China. Yuan dynasty is probably best left as a part of the Mongol civ, and maybe Jurchen Jin and Qing dynasties could be combined into a Manchu civ. I think this would be a lot more interesting from a player standpoint than the current Chinese gameplay

 

[soul-breathing]

Perhaps you could make a case for the Liao, Jurchen Jin, Yuan, and Qing dynasties being playable, separate from China. Yuan dynasty is probably best left as a part of the Mongol civ, and maybe Jurchen Jin and Qing dynasties could be combined into a Manchu civ. I think this would be a lot more interesting from a player standpoint than the current Chinese gameplay

Yes it would be better than splitting China civilization. Maybe also can add Xiongnu (different from Huns in Europe) and Xianbei, those 2 steppe civs and Turks, Khitan(Liao) , Jurchen(Manchu, Qing), Mongol are major nomadic peoples that can threat China in Ancient ages.
Just like Celts, Huns, Vandals, Goths threated Roman civilization.

 

[Lilna]

Thanks for solving the bug!

I also think it would be interesting to break up China into several powers. Start with Xia like China is now, then Shang in 1600 BC, Baiyue in the south in 1300 BC, Zhou in 1000 BC, Xiongnu in the north in 300 BC, and Han in 200 BC. Then spawn in three powers for the Three Kingdoms period in 220 AD (Wei, Shu and Wu). Then Sui in 580 AD, Tang in 620 AD, Song in 960 AD and Ming in 1370 AD. Yuan is just the Mongols so no need to add for that.

Might be tough to come up with interesting and unique UHV for everyone though. And maybe skip the Tang, to give the Sui long enough to do stuff.

Every dynasty as a different civ seems like overkill - especially for China, which as it is now is one of the better long games out there. And if you were to do it that way, skipping the Tang is just crazy talk.

Jurchens/Manchus/Qing might have some merit as a civ, since for their early history they occupy a different space on the map and make the diplomatic situation for China and Korea more interesting. But even then, you'd pretty much have to spawn them after the Mongols, and that puts them in an area of history where you need to actively consider the civ cap. Which means either they spawn and take a spot from somewhere else, or they don't spawn and China gets weird.

Right now, I think one Chinese civ is the way to go. Maybe 2 like in Cross' before it added more, but I feel like it leads to an ahistorically weak China.

I’m starting to think that once 1.4 is released, I might make a 1.5 a smaller-scale update focusing a bit more on balancing and changing up the UHVs, and possibly UPs for current civs which I don’t think are fully balanced or dynamic enough (Judah, Jerusalem, Nubia immediately come to mind, and some others could use some work like Mamluks, too.) I could also add some more buildings and possibly techs for the classical-medieval era. I’m also thinking some new UUs could add some more fun, even if outside the UHV timescales, and some modern era leaders for civs like Korea, Cambodia, etc could probably add a bit more.

Beyond that, there’s plenty more I want to add. My scope for adding civs is pretty relentless, so I can see space for just about any region to get some new civs (except Middle East, and Africa, following 1.4, though even in the Middle East I feel like there’s a good case for adding a Turkoman civ, as well as modern Iraq, and maybe even the Ilkhanate???) Anyways, I’ll probably put up another poll and see what you guys favour.

One spot that I'd love to see fleshed out is the Andes. Its own little cradle of civilization, older than even some in the Old World. Caral-Supe gives 3000 BC another player, the Moche allow for a long-ish game if combined with the Chimu who descended from them, Tiwanaku keeps the southern Andes interesting, and the Muisca could be a good choice for the north. The Wari would also be nice to see, though they might overcrowd things - you'd probably have to pick between including them or the Moche/Chimu. The Mapuche could also be interesting, though they run into the problem of existing in a crowded era where they'd fight for player slots with more important civs.

The good thing about these civs (and the region in general) is that they don't have any real influence on the Old World, and so won't affect much if a higher prio civ needs the player slots. You could really just have them spawn if the player is in South America, and if not then keep the current setup of native cities for the Inca AI to eat.

 

[noppler]

Are slaves supposed to be able to mine jungles before Microbiology?

 

[Apple111111]

Are slaves supposed to be able to mine jungles before Microbiology?

Hmm... I don't think that should be happening...? I'll try to look into this one... (This issue may actually affect the main RFC DOC, since I didn't really change slave mines at all. Maybe you should test on the main RFC DOC and report the bug to Leoreth if it's still occuring. It'll affect this mod more, though, since slaves are more easily available.)

 

[youtien]

Too many conquerors!
Tried Judean twice, never able to attach that iron, Persian army overwhelmed me. I once defeated them and made a peace treaty, they gave me Sur at the next turn(maybe too much expense for them), and they attacked me again 10 turns later with a doom stack. Never had this experience at any RFC mod.

The next game I tried sub Saharan civ, didn't make it, switched to Arabs when they born, and I discovered I have conquerors around every city in flip area, -52 gold every turn. You get so much army at start, I know what you want to simulate but that makes no sense. But, nice work anyway!

 

[Apple111111]

Have any of you guys got any music recommendations for pagan African themes? Right now, I’m giving them the native music, since it fits better than the Roman ones at least, but if I could a set of 5-10 themes for pagan civs in Sub-Saharan Africa it’d be great.

 

[Lilna]

Have any of you guys got any music recommendations for pagan African themes? Right now, I’m giving them the native music, since it fits better than the Roman ones at least, but if I could a set of 5-10 themes for pagan civs in Sub-Saharan Africa it’d be great.

For Ghana and Mali at least, there's a lot of Griot music that you can choose from - the Kouyate family (the royal griots of the Mali empire dating all the way back to the time of Sundiata) are actually still making music today.

 

[Rodnok]

Too many conquerors!
Tried Judean twice, never able to attach that iron, Persian army overwhelmed me. I once defeated them and made a peace treaty, they gave me Sur at the next turn(maybe too much expense for them), and they attacked me again 10 turns later with a doom stack. Never had this experience at any RFC mod.

The next game I tried sub Saharan civ, didn't make it, switched to Arabs when they born, and I discovered I have conquerors around every city in flip area, -52 gold every turn. You get so much army at start, I know what you want to simulate but that makes no sense. But, nice work anyway!

How come you didnt attach iron? I switched to Republics/Deification immediately, took Sur when it was possible, employed artist there (and I had prophet in Jerusalem, thus Deification). Maybe I was lucky that barbs took Babylon (Sea peoples are too strong imho, only Persia could clear them finally), so I could mine that hill long before I got Bloomery.
Luckily there are so many civs and they are willing to trade techs.
I played it at Emperor level, because someone mentioned in the other thread that it was easy after the iron was hooked.

Feedback for Apple111111: the immigration feels too strong. Maybe the Republics helps me here but immediately after 1000 BC I got 3 population points at once in Jerusalem and later I got even more in both. I didnt have a normal population growth (ended around 600 BC for now), only immigration. Sur had never a food surplus but it still got +3 population points, the last one was even unhappy - why would people migrate to a city to be unhappy? I had to build harbor and weaver because of that. Not that I complain, but it feels a bit weird.