Wonders Balancing Thread

[king of nowhere]

I think they should rethink the whole concept of wonders. Many civilizations built pyramids. I have always hoped for a system where any civ can dedicate huge ammounts of hammers into projects in a more intuitive, opportunistic and less punishing manner. IT could be something similar to religion pantheons. Different wonders have different sets of possible effects to choose from and first to complete gets first pics. Earlier wonders should generate a lot more culture than later "ripoffs".

civ4 had national wonders, buildings that each civilization could build once. for some reason they weren't kept in later installments

 

[Rosty K]

civ4 had national wonders, buildings that each civilization could build once. for some reason they weren't kept in later installments

Why? 5 had them too. In 6 there's probably no space for them in 3-tile radius. You got district projects instead though.

 

[LethalLeigh]

I think Petra and Chichen Itza need some sort of an area effect (so that the neighboring cities could also benefit from them).

I don't think everyone agrees with that though.

There could also be a similar wonder for tundra, and maybe mountains (making them workable with some yield, or just giving a direct yield from them, they already can provide some indirect yield through adjacency bonuses).

I agree with this I have thought for a while now Petra is too weak. It should be like the Colosseum and give all dessert tile with in 6 tiles +food

 

[LethalLeigh]

Why? 5 had them too. In 6 there's probably no space for them in 3-tile radius. You got district projects instead though.

Civ6 has room for them due to the fact that you can only build 1 per Civ it adds to the game of what your going to use your tiles for. I always have a few titles where I just build farms because I have nothing else to do with the tile.

 

[God of Kings]

Big Ben is outright broken if done correctly.

Either it adds an Economic policy slot (which is the second best slot after the wild card slot of course) or doubles current gold in the treasury, not both as it is done currently. Alternatively, Big Ben could provide an Economic policy slot and a flat amount of gold instead.

 

[Amrunril]

As far as national wonders are concerned, they were in V, and I'm not at all convinced that they improved the game. I wouldn't be completely opposed to bringing them back, but I'd want to see a well thought out explanation of how they'd work and what they'd bring to the game.

Cultural wonders are bad right now, but I think that's not always because the wonders themselves are bad but because tourism is. Bolshoi for instance, is very good, even if you don't want to win culturally because of free civics. If tourism gets to the point where it has benefits other than as an unlikely endgame currency then cultural wonders may improve indirectly. Hermitage could still be better, though.

I think there's an important distinction to be made between different types of culture wonders. The ones with unique global effects (Eiffel Tower, Cristo Redentor) already seem fairly strong. On the other hand, the ones that just give great artist points and slots (Hermitage, Broadway, Sydney Opera House) are horrendously bad. The Civ V equivalents gave a great person instantly, instead of points that might, over the course of a game (if you're lucky) add up to great person, and they had strong theming bonuses. I think restoring these functions would make the great artist point wonders at least decent.

If we assume 2 gold = 1 cog, then it's the same yield of a regular worked tile in the middle age - mined hills are already better. And it's important to consider that in order to build petra, the city needs to already have decent production. You can't just settle in the middle of the desert and hope petra will make it all right, unless you are quin shi huang. So when you complete petra you will already have good tiles to work in that city. you could work that desert if your city keeps on growing, but given housing limitations in early ages, it's unlikely you will grow it much more. Until the modern era, when the tech bonuses to various improvements will make the base desert yields very bad compared to other tiles. So a city on flat desert with petra will always be no better than a city with normal terrain, and it will be worse in later eras.
there is also the opportunity cost to consider: you must settle a city near desert, try to build a wonder, if you lose the wonder the city won't be able to grow, if you get the wonder it's still no better than having settled on any other place. So I settle first on good land, and by the time I think "the only place left to settle is desert, may as well take it and try petra" petra will have been taken already.
At least that's my experience about it.
I concede you the point about unique improvements, though. In general, petra is good if you can get something in addition to that 2-1-2

True, I wouldn't go for a Petra city with just flat, resourceless desert, but in a city with a mix of flat and hilly/resource desert tiles, upgrading the flat tiles from worthless to average is a significant upside.

 

[Roald Amundsen]

From a realism point of view I agree with your post, but I think the idea of hit-or-miss wonders is such a fundamental part of the Civ series that the game would just not be the same without it. For better or worse, the rush of snatching a wonder is one of the most exciting parts of the game for many players (including myself).

There is another point as well and it's huge in my opinion. When you play on higher difficulties, and i know i always do, the ruling mechanic of the wonder race makes them impossible or unwise to build. So on higher difficulties this whole aspect is basicly removed from the game, making it less stellar and actually less complex.

 

[Tech Osen]

I was thinking on how to improve the Great Library and had an idea: why not turn it into a special campus district with special bonusses. Might work for some other (early) wonders as well. Maybe one per district type.