Wonders biased towards the U.S.?

[jason77024]

The cultural wonders (Broadway, Hollywood, Rock 'n' Roll) are there for a specific reason. Late-game that can be traded.

How many musicals come from the West End? Sorry, Rodgers & Hammerstein + Lerner & Loewe + Sondheim + Berlin + Kern > Noel Coward + Andrew Lloyd Webber. Besides, why would you have the West End -and- the Globe Theater?

And while the Sydney Opera House is an iconic symbol, it is known more for its architecture than for its contribution to opera. La Scala, the Leipzig Gewandhaus, and Vienna's Staatsoper are all (far) more notable than Sydney, musically speaking. (Though from a timeline point of view, musicals > opera from a gameplay perspective. Not that either one really appeals to me! )

Which country (GB/US) has had the best rock is certainly debatable. Most of my favorites are from outside the US. Which country invented RnR, however is not up for discussion. = USA

If you're really hung up on reducing the number of late-game US wonders (whatever), you'd at least have a (really) good case for something like the Brandenburg Gate instead of Mt. Rushmore.

 

[jessiecat]

I have been to Mt. Rushmore three times. It is gorgeous and even better now that there is a walkway so you can get up close and underneath. But, even the Erie Canal is a better "world wonder" or the Eades Bridge (across the Mississippi River at St. Louis). What about that English Channel tube thingy? I can't believe it is real - not reall sure it is yet. When I flew over (actually I was in an aeroplane) the area I didn't see it. Maybe it is a fake, like men landing on the moon, eh?

You flew over the English Channel and didn't see the Channel Tunnel.
Hope your're sitting comfortably. I will try to explain.

It's a tunnel, isn't it? And it's under 100's of feet of water, isn't it? So you're not going to see it from thousands of feet up, are you?
Anything else you need explaining, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Gooblah]

Couple things:
There's a reason The Internet, The Apollo Program, and The Manhattan Project aren't classified as "wonders" but as "projects". All 3 are international icons of world development. The Apollo Program is a generalization of most space programs, but was the only one to take people to the moon. The Manhattan Project was not the first one to be started, but the first one to detonate a nuke. The Internet is probably the most international thing out there, with the exception of the UN, and even the UN is not American, but Worldly.

I don't want to sound all "GO AMERICA! WOOT! AL THE OTHER COUNTRIES SUX!" because I'm the son of immigrants and am part of my school's Model UN. But...
Statue of Liberty-icon of American Democracy. When people came from Europe, Africa, Asia, South America, etc before the invention of mass transport by airplane, the first thing they would see entering New York Harbor would be Lady Liberty. People would gaze at it, hanging off the rails of ships for a glimpse. It represented, and still represents, the freedoms America has.

Mt Rushmore-Not a World Wonder. Should be a National Wonder, since its just an American generalization of every country's leader memorial.

Hollywood-Bollywood produces more movies, but Hollywood is more recognizable. What does America export? Cheap labor and cheap movies!

Wall Street- National Wonder for a reason. EVERY country that's even a minor economic power has one. NYSE/Wall Street is America's. And America has the world's largest economy, as far as I know.

West Point- National Wonder, right? Whatever. It should be an NW. It trained some of the world's greatest military leaders. Again, an American generalization of the standard military training place/university.

Pentagon-World wonder. Should be National.

All Ican think of off the top of my head.

 

[The Conquerer22]

Couple things:
There's a reason The Internet, The Apollo Program, and The Manhattan Project aren't classified as "wonders" but as "projects". All 3 are international icons of world development. The Apollo Program is a generalization of most space programs, but was the only one to take people to the moon. The Manhattan Project was not the first one to be started, but the first one to detonate a nuke. The Internet is probably the most international thing out there, with the exception of the UN, and even the UN is not American, but Worldly.

I don't want to sound all "GO AMERICA! WOOT! AL THE OTHER COUNTRIES SUX!" because I'm the son of immigrants and am part of my school's Model UN. But...
Statue of Liberty-icon of American Democracy. When people came from Europe, Africa, Asia, South America, etc before the invention of mass transport by airplane, the first thing they would see entering New York Harbor would be Lady Liberty. People would gaze at it, hanging off the rails of ships for a glimpse. It represented, and still represents, the freedoms America has.

Mt Rushmore-Not a World Wonder. Should be a National Wonder, since its just an American generalization of every country's leader memorial.

Hollywood-Bollywood produces more movies, but Hollywood is more recognizable. What does America export? Cheap labor and cheap movies!

Wall Street- National Wonder for a reason. EVERY country that's even a minor economic power has one. NYSE/Wall Street is America's. And America has the world's largest economy, as far as I know.

West Point- National Wonder, right? Whatever. It should be an NW. It trained some of the world's greatest military leaders. Again, an American generalization of the standard military training place/university.

Pentagon-World wonder. Should be National.

All Ican think of off the top of my head.

how is lady liberty a figure of freedom when it comes from France, America has a smaller economy then Canada, what the hell is west point, pentagon is a hq, therefor I agree with you, Hollywood I agree they should create a building or something and call it a blockbusters or something to replace it, mount ruchmore shouldnt be in the game, it should be a statue or something and call it, tribute to our leader and can only be built during the golden age of a civ or during a cities we love the leader day

 

[Quotey]

how is lady liberty a figure of freedom when it comes from France

Because it is American and you know it, soldier. But if we're playing like that, the CN tower's materials come from the ground, so it isn't really Canadian! It's... Earthican!

 

[The Conquerer22]

Im talking nationalities, and got what right "soldier"

 

[cybrxkhan]

ack, the game is made in America

 

[The Conquerer22]

true to that

 

[jessiecat]

Because it is American and you know it, soldier. But if we're playing like that, the CN tower's materials come from the ground, so it isn't really Canadian! It's... Earthican!

Just in case you didn't know. Up to this year the CN Tower was the tallest
free-standing structure, taller than the Sears thing, than the one in Malaysia,
taller than any building. Not any more. Its been beaten by the telecommuni-
cations tower in Dubai (still under construction). But when BTScame out, it was the tallest and should have been included in the gameas a wonder.

 

[Gooblah]

True, Lady Liberty was a French design gifted to the US to show the bonds between our two nations. But it still is more associated with the US then anything, and you'd be hard-pressed ( as far as I know) to find something like that in the rest of the world. And the CN Tower should probably be a Wonder.

 

[brianshapiro]

Just in case you didn't know. Up to this year the CN Tower was the tallest
free-standing structure, taller than the Sears thing, than the one in Malaysia,
taller than any building. Not any more. Its been beaten by the telecommuni-
cations tower in Dubai (still under construction). But when BTScame out, it was the tallest and should have been included in the gameas a wonder.

There's a difference between having a world record, and being a wonder. If you're talking about wonders historically, I would say it tends to be a monumental structure, but one that represents some cultural role and influence the civilization had. The Pyramids represented the Egyptian culture and religion and views, and its influence and contribution to history.

But if we're talking skyscrapers, a taller skyscraper is being built every year. The tallest skyscraper of the moment isn't necessarily more of a wonder than the last tallest skyscraper, or the next tallest skyscraper. There will always be some egotistical competition to build the next tallest skyscraper. One year one country and one building will hold the honor, another year another country and another building will hold the honor. This is a part of the culture of capitalism.

Some of the skyscrapers in Dubai are more believable as wonders, because they represent something which I believe of cultural significance. Capitalism through globalisation has found an outlet in Dubai for all its egotistical fantasies, and Dubai's massive building boom is a sort of orgy of global capitalism. And will be remembered that way in history.

As for a lot of wonders in the game being American, I think its just because the game developers felt they needed to fill a niche for "modern wonders", and what we refer to the "modern age" is actually historically a very short period which has been so far culturally dominated by America. In my view, the overloading of American wonders in the game more represents how the designers are giving too much weight to the "modern era" as a historical period, which because of how the game turns work, lasts as long as the ancient era. Some of these things, mind you, can be handled differently, by not involving wonders at all but some other type of game structure that isn't culture specific.

The Sydney Opera house, like people have said, may be admired for its architecture, but doesn't represent anything historically significant, or culturally important about Australia. As for a historical role, Broadway had more importance (more than equivalents in other countries, I'd say---most of the musicals you know of originated on Broadway, read about the history of musicals sometime, Broadway was the precursor to Hollywood). But I'm not sure either need to be in the game at all. A lot of the modern wonders are glut.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

According to this weeks QI on BBC2 the first thing immigrants see nearing arrival to America is a huge elephant shaped hotel which was a brothel at one time or another.

 

[Civfan333]

I think Mt. Rushmore shouldn't even be in the game.

 

[The Conquerer22]

Just in case you didn't know. Up to this year the CN Tower was the tallest
free-standing structure, taller than the Sears thing, than the one in Malaysia,
taller than any building. Not any more. Its been beaten by the telecommuni-
cations tower in Dubai (still under construction). But when BTScame out, it was the tallest and should have been included in the gameas a wonder.

technically wouldnt the cn still be considered the tallest since the communications tower is no done, and what is the planned height in comparison to the cn tower?

 

[The Conquerer22]

I agree with civfan333, Id also add a few other wonders too

 

[Party]

Of course it's biased, Americans like to think they are the cultural center of the world.

 

[The Conquerer22]

like to think I beleive is what you mean, politly crrecting you,not to be rood

 

[jessiecat]

technically wouldnt the cn still be considered the tallest since the communications tower is no done, and what is the planned height in comparison to the cn tower?

Ya, sorry. According to Wik, CN Tower is 1815ft., was surpassed on Sept 12
by the Dubai Tower (1922ft) ,which when its finished is planned to be
over 2600 ft.
Still, nothing is forever. Somebody will come up with something bigger one day. We had our day.

 

[brianshapiro]

Ya, sorry. According to Wik, CN Tower is 1815ft., was surpassed on Sept 12
by the Dubai Tower (1922ft) ,which when its finished is planned to be
over 2600 ft.
Still, nothing is forever. Somebody will come up with something bigger one day. We had our day.

Not that it matters... these skyscrapers are being funded by international investors. It doesn't really say much about the country its in or anything

 

[MrFelony]

the SDI should be considered american thanks to reagan