Work in Progress - Conquests of Might and Magic III

[Samez]

Short question (might already be answered somewhere in the this thread):
As you could switch form surface to subterrain level in the homm games within one map and civ 3 won't handle this easily how did you solve this problem Are the maps just either or, or did you make the portals airports (which will result in the ability to move to any airport/ tunnel-entrance)?

 

[Roland Ironfist]

Sorry I have not posted up images of the faction leaders yet. New Years' was hectic, but the mod is looking superb! It's like looking at Heroes III screenshots! I will get together as many useful images as possible and post them here as soon as I can.

 

[nick0515]

Short question (might already be answered somewhere in the this thread):
As you could switch form surface to subterrain level in the homm games within one map and civ 3 won't handle this easily how did you solve this problem Are the maps just either or, or did you make the portals airports (which will result in the ability to move to any airport/ tunnel-entrance)?

Tom will be able to answer this more thoroughly but I believe that both surface and underground terrain will exist on the same map for scenarios and the hacked editor teleportation flag is used as a means to get between the two areas of the map.

Cheers

Nick

 

[tom2050]

Also regarding the creature structures it just occured to me that all cities could be done this way. If city graphics were invisible then the cities could be represented by a capturable unit as the creature structures are. That way they would still look like a certain civ even after andother civ captured them. Each city could have a resource under it that is required for the entire line up of units and buildings for the particular civ. Thus when you capture another players city it will look the same and you can build all that other civs buildings and units there. That's how it worked in Homm 3 didn't it? Been so long since I played. This could only be used for scenarios with preplaced cities of course. I think I'll try this in yet another fantasy mod idea I thought of recently. I'm thinking about a new mod that will incoporate many of the ideas you are pioneering in this mod Tom, but with some variation hopefully and a totally different setting.

That could work as well perfectly, the only potential problem I see is the fact that the city would be at the bottom of the stack (it always goes to the bottom with 0 Att 0 Def, even with king unit I think, just like a worker or scout does). So you would only see units standing on the terrain.

If you gave the city Attack and Defense, and all other units king untis, it would show on top, but then could be destroyed by an enemy, and no city graphic would exist at all.

Perhaps there is another way around this pickle?

Short question (might already be answered somewhere in the this thread):
As you could switch form surface to subterrain level in the homm games within one map and civ 3 won't handle this easily how did you solve this problem Are the maps just either or, or did you make the portals airports (which will result in the ability to move to any airport/ tunnel-entrance)?

Yes, Nick stated it right on... the hacked editor has a teleportation feature which the AI actively uses (and uses very well). So although the teleportation is a bit different than the way HoMM3 used the Monoliths, it does the job well enough and accurately.

So the Monoliths have a certain range which units must be in the range of to use them. Then they can teleport over (So units in Civ3 cannot use a Monolith to teleport to another, then can just teleport to a Monolith from anywhere as long as they are in range).

The difference here is that once you teleport to a Monolith (to Surface level or Subterranean level, you cannot get back)... it's a one-way road, so players will need to make sure they are prepared. <-- Done for AI reasons.

Sorry I have not posted up images of the faction leaders yet. New Years' was hectic, but the mod is looking superb! It's like looking at Heroes III screenshots! I will get together as many useful images as possible and post them here as soon as I can.

Hello again Roland Ironfist! Your timing couldn't be more perfect, as I am very close to getting around to making the leaderheads and getting conversions done of the other units I need. It will be the first time I have done leaderheads in my life, but the tuturial posted on how to do them seems straightforward, and making the test unit from the Utahjazz tuturial taught me quite a bit about Poser, so the main thing will be finding props for the characters to wear, and adjusting their faces to look like the HoMM3 characters.

For Mutare the Dragon, I think there is a Dragon leaderhead, perhaps I could recolour it red ??

Tom

Tom

 

[nick0515]

That could work as well perfectly, the only potential problem I see is the fact that the city would be at the bottom of the stack (it always goes to the bottom with 0 Att 0 Def, even with king unit I think, just like a worker or scout does). So you would only see units standing on the terrain.

If you gave the city Attack and Defense, and all other units king untis, it would show on top, but then could be destroyed by an enemy, and no city graphic would exist at all.

Perhaps there is another way around this pickle?

Yes I thought of that problem later after I posted. I can't think of any way round it yet. I guess it's not really workable to have units as cities. No way to make them always show if they are stacked. Nevermind. At least it will work well with creature structures. Though I imagine people may want to guard them with other units which may make them not visible also. Not as important as with city graphics though.

Cheers

Nick

 

[DFBATTLER]

* Mutare the Dragon =D

 

[tom2050]

Though I imagine people may want to guard them with other units which may make them not visible also. Not as important as with city graphics though.

Even Flag units sometimes appear over them, which is annoying as well.. but will have to do.

* Mutare the Dragon =D

Thanks, I put Mature and didn't even realize it.


A few more things....

Map Structures
Although this is going to take a while to add in initially, each map structure should be able to somethings specific... so Magic Shrines will provide spells, Temple will provide Morale, Fountain of Youth will provide Morale and some good movement ability around the structure, Griffin Conservatory will provide an Angel if Griffin's defeated, etc...

Artifacts
Initially I was going to make artifacts just like some resources... as Flag Units, where you pick them up and cash them in for gold... but that is kind of boring since there are plenty of resources scattered around on all maps.
So I was thinking would it be preferred if these special Artifacts could instead be captured, and then the player/AI could upgrade them at their towns to a specific unit?
For example, capturing the Centaur's Axe would allow you to gain a Centaur.
Spell Scroll would gain you a Spell, Clover of Fortune would gain you the Fortune Spell, Shield of Dwarven Lords gains you a Dwarf, etc...

Some artifacts are not so specific, but I believe there is some lore around about artifacts, so I could get something close. Doing it that way is probably a bit more exciting than simply getting a small lump of money; and more enticing to fight for the artifact as well.

Which sounds better? Artifact to gain unit, or artifact as another flag unit for gold?

Tom

 

[nick0515]

Which sounds better? Artifact to gain unit, or artifact as another flag unit for gold?

Getting a unit is definitely more exciting.

Cheers

Nick

 

[tom2050]

Here is the best way I have found to make Hereos (Armies) at this point.

They will only be able to carry 1 unit. This is done so AI will use them, and gives human player no huge advantage.

All Heroes will be able to summon spells to their locations (teleport), with some differences.
Might Heroes will have very limited range in which they will be able to bring spells to their location and directly into the battle.
Magic Heroes will have a very long range in which they will be able to bring spells to their location, which means that almost no matter where they are, they can continue to bring up reinforcements. This is especially devastating if the player has Summon Elemental Level 5 spells.

Magic Heroes will be King Units (I don't think this has any bad side effects for Armies, but will have to check to see if it even works). This is done so Magic Heroes will not be directly in harms way as they teleport spells to their location.
Might Heroes will not be King Units, so they will more likely be on top of the stack. If they do bring spells to their location, they may be in trouble if they let there hitpoints drop too much.

Magic Heroes will not have ability to Blitz, whereas Might Heroes do. So a Magic Hero without proper spells will have a tougher time doing any good damage compared to a Might Hero. Might Heroes who can Blitz, and whom have more Hitpoints, will be much more capable of direct combat.

Magic Heroes have some other abilities such as Radar and ignore movement costs on terrains, but have only 1 move point initially. Might Heroes do not have these, but have 2 move points, making them faster on open roads, but not as quite as mobile in enemy territory.

------------------

All Heroes of different factions will/may have slightly different stats. Depending on how powerful of a magic town it is, the Hero will be in line with this. So Magic Heroes such as the Elementalist, Wizard, and Warlock will have the greatest magic range for spells, whereas Battle Mage and Barbarian will have very little.

Similarly, Might Heroes such as the Barbarian, which is one of the most powerful attack heroes, will have greater hitpoints and perhaps even more move points.

-----------------------

Most all map structures have been completed and entered into the BIQ, I will try to get all the creature dwellings in next. So for creature dwellings, if you defeat the guards that are protecting the dwelling, you will capture the creature dwelling and be able to recruit the creatures there. There will be preset creatures there that will be capturable, and they can be brought to a city to have them upgraded to the actual creatures themselves. AI uses this, so it is the best way to go.

Tom

 

[vmxa]

This may or may not be what you want, but the AI will now attack the army/hero with most units. Having 1 unit added to the army will put the hit points low enough to allow attack. This will be even more the case, if the army has taken any damage.

 

[tom2050]

This may or may not be what you want, but the AI will now attack the army/hero with most units. Having 1 unit added to the army will put the hit points low enough to allow attack. This will be even more the case, if the army has taken any damage.

Not to mention when an Army brings in a spell unit, it also loses 1 hitpoint each time. This is why I have made Magic Armies as Kings, so they are at bottom of the stack and protected.

Armies will have a decent amount of hitpoints added to them, so they do not suffer defeat very easily, but they will have enough to make them viable and tough.

Losing Armies will not be a huge loss in scenarios though, since they can be produced rather easily, so it should be expected... and in some situations even necessary.

It would be terrific to have several units in an Army, but AI will then just sit the Army in a city with only 1 unit in it for most of the game, until a faster unit is available, but by then it is probably too late for AI to make good use of the Army.

I feel it is good that AI individual units attack an Army, instead of avoiding them. This makes Armies still vulnerable, but their advantages make them extremely useful. You are right though, AI will go after weak armies or damaged armies with a vengeance!

Tom

 

[tom2050]

Okay, it has been a while since I have posted anything here. I have been busy trying to get the scenario units in place in the BIQ (all of them) so each additional scenario will have everything needed; which will make them much easier to create, and to avoid having to add additional units later. Over 350+ units have been added, which include map structures, all artifacts, what unit/spell/combination the artifacts become, additional spells I was still missing; and now it is mostly complete except for a few things to finish up.

The pedia is going to be a pain to do, but that will have to be the last thing on the list, to avoid having to make constant changes as I go. Once I start it, it shouldn't take too long to complete though.

For Artifacts that will be found laying around on the map, I have these figured out for the most part. So, you may stumble across the artifact Centaur's Axe. You can capture the artifact, but it is worthless as is; and enemies can capture it from you if they come across it. You must get it back to a town to upgrade it into it's usable unit. In this case it becomes a Centaur unit. The Axe is a Weapon Artifact, so the Centaur has a very good 8A, but only 2D. Make sure to protect him!

Centaur's Axe is a relatively weak artifact, some of the very powerful artifact's can either turn the tide to your favor, or leave you wishing that you had scouted for any and all artifacts sooner!

Armageddon's Blade, for instance, is a quite all-around powerful artifact. If you can secure it, the unit created by it is a mid-level 10A,9D creature, but these stats are enhanced by it's ability to use the Armageddon Spell, has good protection from the elements, among some other innate magic abilities (at this time, Fireball, Prot from Fire, Stone Skin, and Shield have been decided upon). These abilities relate to the +Attack,+Defense,+Know,+Power skills of the artifacts from HoMM3; and so each boost in power HoMM3 artifacts had, I have translated them to provide certain benefits, to keep different artifacts somewhat consistent.

There are a few which I am unsure if they can even be implemented into Civ3, such as Water Walk... and so will likely just be omitted. I thought perhaps a very fast magical type ship could be used for this, but that would not make much sense in the grand scheme of things.

Getting these can provide a huge boost of power, but there is a very small upgrade cost associated with them (everything cannot be free! ). But they are not usually sitting out in the open... wandering creatures will most always have to be defeated to obtain them.

Tom

 

[nick0515]

Awesome Tom. The artifacts will make things really fun. In my, only theorised, fantasy scenario I plan to have artifacts that work exactly as you have set them up; upgrading to a unit or spell (though I don't plan to use air units as spells like you have).

Seriously can't wait to test this out.

Cheers

Nick

 

[tom2050]

Okay, much of the units of the BIQ will have to wait until Steph finishes the next update of his editor. So I will have to stop at where I am at now for entering units. But most of the units are in now for the scenarios; and I have started doing some more of the Civilopedia, so I don't fall too far behind on it.

Good news on some other fronts as well... Spells such as Land Mines, Force Field, Quicksand, etc will be able to be used pretty much in a similar way as they should be. They are immobile and must be casted to where you want them to be (where they will stay unless you build a Spell Tower there). They will act as Airdrop units.

I didn't add that in before, because certain civ's used the Airdrop ability to do things such as transport between towns (Inferno Castle Gate, Stronghold Escape Tunnel), but I have decided to use the Telepad Building option instead; since it can be used without causing problems. <--- this is only so in the case of flavor units, which don't allow them to teleport to other civ's bldg telepads, so the inadvertant taking of cities cannot happen.

Much relief that it just so happened to work out this way. Although earlier I stated I would probably be done by now for beta, I was way off. I was thinking in terms of only the epic game (which that BIQ is 99% done), but scenaio's required much more work than I anticipated, so I will just keep ETA unknown for now... but hopefully things can keep going quickly!

I will start looking for pics of HoMM3 leaders, all that I can find... the more the better to help me make accurate leaderhead graphics! and Iron Rolandfist, if you are out there, please let me know if you have pics also... I am going to start making the leaderheads very very soon. Thx!

EDIT: I think I remember it being said that Barbarians can not Enslave... is this true? Can't quite remember.

Tom

 

[Kyriakos]

This is a massive thread, i cannot look at all of the posts unfortunately Would you be needing any fantasy city sets for the scenario?

 

[nick0515]

Tom, I believe I read that too about barbarians not being able to enslave.

Varwnos, Tom has already converted the cities for this mod from the original Heroes of Might and Magic 3 game. But don't let that stop you from making more fantasy cities!

Cheers

Nick

 

[DFBATTLER]

Did Tom say Iron Rolandfist a few posts back? O_O

*much needed bump*

 

[vmxa]

Yes, but I figured that was a user name, not error for Roland Ironfist. I think Tom got side stracked by CCM.

 

[tom2050]

This is a massive thread, i cannot look at all of the posts unfortunately Would you be needing any fantasy city sets for the scenario?

Possible for a neutral civ, but I ran into the problem of not enough building slots available, I've hit the 256 max!

Tom, I believe I read that too about barbarians not being able to enslave.

I don't like the idea of including an extra nothing civ, just so guard units can enslave. But it may be better than having them not enslave. After all neutral creatures (immobile guards) should be considered dangerous based on what their extra abilities are as well. Perhaps I will check out doing that instead.

Did Tom say Iron Rolandfist a few posts back? O_O

*much needed bump*

That was definitely a typo! Roland Ironfist is more like it! Have not heard from him though yet, so I've been compiling images to begin leaderheads.

Yes, but I figured that was a user name, not error for Roland Ironfist. I think Tom got side stracked by CCM.

A small break is always good, helps let me come up with ways to do things that I normally would not think to do. Anyways, there is actually nothing I can do with the BIQ until Steph releases his next version of his editor. Reason is, without the abilities of his editor, adding duplicate type units by hand would take eons', and any other way would erase all the information regarding charm and teleportation already set for all the units. I could do it in his editor now, but I need to add new units to the map as I go, so I don't forget to do it later.

The first scenario is practically done and fully playable (and quite difficult on Sid, but it can be won). I need to finish adding in all unit for everything though. So I can just use the same BIQ for all other scenarios, and just make w/e changes are needed for each individual one.

Also, I have corrected problems with the Tavern that was occuring before. I have completed much more of the Civiliopedia recently as well.

Due to the sheer number of everything:
- Units, their upgrades, all artifacts, the things the artifacts become, creature structures, what the creature structures hold, map locations and their goodies, neutral guards, regular units, ability to capture units from creature buildings and upgrade them correctly, spells, capturable spells and their upgrades, this that and the other...

it is quite huge! I wouldn't doubt if the unit count nears 900. It's already up near 700+ I believe. I initially never expected it to be like this, but for things to work right, and feel more like how HoMM3 should , it is definitely a good thing!

So I will continue doing other menial tasks until I can really start kickin again with finishing the BIQ! In the meantime, I may desperately seek out the remaining units I need and try to get them done once and for all (which will be a great relief!). Of course, I need to add shadows to some of the units as well.... and finish the Hero graphics... perhaps this weekend I will try to do so.

Tom

 

[nick0515]

Glad to hear things are still ticking a long Tom. If the scenario is, I believe you said, fully playable does that mean we can expect an alpha test some time soon? I for one would be happy to test it out even if the Civilopedia, leaderhead graphics etc are not down yet. Or a pre-alpha perhaps such at the 40K Scenario released a while back.

Cheers

Nick