World History Mod development thread

@TheLastOne36: hm. I agree that it shouldn't really spread, but how would i do this? im not totall sure it's possible to say "pantheon tech puts pantheonism in one or all of your cities." Also, what about for civs that don't want to found pantheonism? The unresearched pantheonism tech will drag back the rest of the tech tree. Anyways I'll see if I can find a way to get it to only spread in your borders, once it is chosen as state religion

African Trad./Diasporic has been consumed by/split into both Anamism and Shamanism

Just to be clear about religions, I need help making choices, so I will need 3 votes on each of the following...

1. Pantheonism vs. individual representation
2. Paganism or Paganism and Pantheonism
3. Nestorianism?
4. Arianism?
5. Juche?
6. Sikhism?
7. Cannanism (individual, pantheonism or paganism?)

My big concern is that if we allow even one of these highly individual religions, we should allow them all. Are you all leaning towards the important religions (my list minus those we're voting on (except pantheonism)) or towards including every religion we can? I personally am leaning towards just the important religions, and grouping the smaller ones under pantheonism, paganism, animism, shamanism, etc.

And although I won't renege on my decision to remove scientology, it will be included in the eventual made-up/random history scenario just for fun

I am also working on the gamefont files
 
I still haven't made up my mind on the religions so i won't be casting my vote yet.

How about including Greco-Roman Pantheonism and Egyptian Coptic and grouping the rest up in Pantheonism?
 
# Throughout history immigration has been an issue. Take a look at the world's newest nation, Kosovo, a country founded on immigrant Albanians. How come is this not implemented in the game?
# Maybe theres been a recent conquest, and a captured city's population wants to return to it's original country, so it immigrates there
# Border City, Population from another Country just joins the border city, happens alot throughout history, makes sense. Infact it's sorta already implemented in the game with culture.
# Soldiers capture a city, and there lonely have no homes etc. so they settled down in the new city that has been captured.
# The Romans made a Colony, but it's pretty underpopulated, the Roman citizens, seeking land, wealth, etc. immigrate to the new world.
# Another conquests. i've captured a city, but it's filled with enemy population, i "deport" the population back to there homeland.
# I've captured a city, but it's fileld with enemy population, i turn the population into slaves and send them to work in other cities as slaves. there ancestors settle down in there new city.
# Rome captured a city, but it's filled with Russian population. Rome bring some romans from other cities to make my new city more "Roman"
# My empire/city is so poor/backwards/horrible living conditions/unhappy/low life expectancy/seek better paying jobs/etc so i'm immigrating to another empire/city.
# i made a new city, and i need workers in the new city, so i'm sending citizens there to work.
# New immigrants can bring a new religion with them, as well as there culture.
# if to much immigrants are in a small area, civil war may be about! which can lead to cities becoming part of the original immigrants country!
# There could be a feature where you can control where you want immigrants to go.
# Illegal immigration can be implemented into the game, and can cause unhappiness etc.
# Finally a way to include Ethnic Cleansing! (which will probably create tons of unhappiness.
# maybe a map that can show you immigration paterns throughout the world?
Click to expand...

Long, Long ago i made this up in the Civ 5 Idea's thread, you think something like this could be implemented?
 
johny smith said:
I could not possibly read this whole thread it is long, but I saw how many religions you are looking for. I don't know if you have made these religions buildings and units yet. But I did make all as new textures for 30 religions that act as denominations already.

Here is what I did.

Jewish

Pharisees
Sadducees
Essenes
Karaites

Christian

Nestorian
Coptic
Orthodox
Catholic
Protestant

Islam

Sunnism
Shiism
Kharijism
Mu'tazilism
Isma'ilism

Iran

Mazdaism
Zurvanism
Manicheanism
Baha'i

Hinduism

Smarthan
Shaivan
Viashnavan
Shakti

Buddhism

Theravada
Vajrayana
Mahayana
Zen

Chinese

Confucianism
Taoism
Mohism
Legalism

Here is a link to explain how to get some of the stuff.

http://civ4religionmod.freeforums.org/links-to-download-and-chat-server-t38.html

But anyway we have schisms working at this point from the great prophets. And working on adding uniqueness now to many aka pagan religions. Anyway if anyone is interested I am around.
Click to expand...
adding in some pegan stuff would be cool too

Pegan
Native american stuff (dunno their religions name)
Shinto,
etc
 
well Albanians weren't living there not to long ago. But it's just an example, let's not turn this into an arguement. OT is for that.
 
Well, ok, let's not get in to an argument about it but we're here in Kosovo way longer then the Serbs were.
 
I'm going to cry seeing Traditional African Religion cut up and merged with Paganism :(

Well, off the religion topic, I've revised some UHVs I posted before below...

@Kevinmen: Hows the civics list coming along? Would help finishing the African civilizations :p Anyways, I've done some touch up to the list, however, things are coming along slowly! :( Also, when things get to the point, you should see if tsentom1 could give you a hand on some things, he made some neat wonders Link

@everyone: You all should check out the main forum if you haven't already :)

And now them revised UHVs.

Have at least X number of resources and X population by 1950AD(More then could be on Japan and Korea). (Info: The main goals of Japan's expansionism were acquisition and protection of spheres of influence, maintenance of territorial integrity, acquisition of raw materials, and access to Asian markets. Western nations, notably Great Britain, France, and the United States, had for long exhibited great interest in the commercial opportunities in China and other parts of Asia. These opportunities had attracted Western investment because of the availability of raw materials for both domestic production and re-export to Asia. Japan desired these opportunities in planning the development of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.

The Great Depression, just as in many other countries, had hindered Japan's economic growth. The Japanese Empire's main problem lay in that rapid industrial expansion had turned the country into a major manufacturing and industrial power that required raw materials; however, these could only be obtained overseas as there was a critical lack of natural resources on the home islands.

In the 1920s and 1930s Japan needed to import raw materials such as iron, rubber and oil to maintain strong economic growth. Most of these resources however came from the United States. The Japanese felt that acquiring resource-rich territories would establish economic self-sufficiency and independence, and they also hoped to jump-start the nation's economy in the midst of the depression. As a result Japan set its sights on East Asia, specifically Manchuria with its many resources; Japan needed these resources to continue its economic development and maintain national integrity. )

About the Aztecs goalds: The 3rd goal was to represent the Idea of a Native Empire delivering massive blows to European invaders which would have inspired other Native Empires to withstand invasion. e,g "Hey, the Aztecs them were able to kill 'em white man, we can too!"

A revised Mongolian UHV list:

1st: Control far-east (excluding Japan) by 1300AD. (Info: Was their goal, one that they almost did)

2nd: Courthouses in all cities by 1400AD. (Info: To represent centralization and able government)

3rd: All cities connected by roads by 1400AD. (Info: To represent unity and connection between the vast Empire)

4th: Control the Middle-East (excluding Arabia) and Eastern Europe by 1500AD. (Info: One of their goals that they almost did as well.)

Also, I looked at the civs list and decided to give my two cents, however in this economy, that doesn't count for anything :p

Canada's UHVs looks more like what they DID and not like a UHV IMO.

The US's 5th goal should be more like "Defeat X number of units" and not start wars, since the way I see it is they wanted and want to show their might and not so much go to war with the world :p IMO

And I have to say that England is as if not more Imperialistic, Aggressive then the US.

And why is it Nazi Germany with the German Empire in grey? It should be Germany and that's all, and since there's only going to be one leader per civ, then Hitler shouldn't even be the leader, some older guy should be IMO

RUSSIAN EMPIRE (formerly MOSCOWY and later SOVIET EMPIRE)
Click to expand...
Should be:
RUSSIAN EMPIRE (formerly MOSCOWY and later SOVIET UNION)
Click to expand...
IMO
And their UP could be: Motherland: Minus 25% Maintenance cost and Stability lost from cities built more then ten spaces from capital.

Well, that's all for now! GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please?
 
Revised Russian Chinese and Japanese UHVs IMHO:

CHINA
UHV1: Build Great Wall by 200 BC
UHV2: Army of 200 units by 0AD
UHV3: Control area of the PRC by AD750, excluding Tibet and Manchuria (around the time of height of Tang Empire)
UHV4: No cities lost to Barbarians, Mongols, Nomads by 1500 AD
UHV5: No non-Asian culture on Asia

JAPAN
UHV1: No foreign culture on main islands (Honshu, Shikoku, Hokkaido, Kyushu)
UHV2: Richest and strongest (military units) Asian civ by AD1900
UHV3: Control East Asia (Korea, China, South East Asia) by AD1950
UHV4: Most naval units in the world by AD1950
UHV5: Corporation in every city in the world by AD2000

RUSSIA
UHV1: Control Siberia and Alaska by AD1700 (no vassal)
UHV2: Control area of USSR by AD1900 (no vassal)
UHV3: Largest land army in the world by AD1950
UHV4: Build Apollo Program by AD1960
UHV5: Entire world adopting State Property by AD2000
 
Why Japan's goals should not be "Control Asia" is because their goal wasn't 'Control Asia' as I show in the Info part of the revised UHV in the above post. Another, because that would be too historical and not ideal enough IMO.
And I think largest land army in world is a given for the Russians. If they had two units in each city they'd have the largest land army in the world :p

And I proposed 0AD as representing the first unified Chinese state established by the Qin Dynasty in 221 BCE, having it that the Dynasty unified the whole of China by that time. :)

Anyways, a variety of opinions are always great :D
 
@Grishnash: I am not merging TAR into paganism; I am merely splitting it into animism and shamanism. I have a feeling this is correct, and I noticed that this is what EU3 does too. However, if you all elect to have individual paganistic religions (ie mesoamerican, heliopian (whatever its called), roman, greek, celtic, cannanism, etc.) then TAR will also stand on it's own, and Animism and Shamanism will be replaced in the Americas by native spirituality.

I am on the last stretch of completing my map, and have started making the code and stuff that will simulate snow cover, river seasons (ie on the Nile), floods, and advance and recede ice. I will also include the domestication system I mentioned in the map thread in my latest post. It should be without a doubt the nicest fundamental map yet made. My point is I will be putting as much effort as I can into these aspects.

Thank you all for the civ stuff, it will be updated tonight. I will also get back to you (Grishnash) on your ideologies.

I urge you all to help as much as you can with civics- I need to know what all my civics are going to be, not neccessarily the exact effects they have, as this will allow us to properly flesh out the civs, because I need to know the civic they prefer in EACH category. I really don't know the names/terms for a lot of the civics I need, so please help make lists if you can.

@Lastone36- I'd love to, but obviously not knowing how to code without outside help/borrowing, there will be massive limits to what I can do for these ideas. Some will have to be knocked off immediately. While a dynamic immigration map would be amazing, it's impossible, at least for me. Most will be hard. Certainly, for now, we could make an immigration event like in EU3 where you can choose to let colonists leave or not when there is religious difference, unhappiness, etc.

@Grishnash- yes, I agree Britain is (was) more imperialistic and maybe aggressive too. But USA is more... something. Especially these days.

@Taillesskangaru- nice to see you again :)

Kevin
 
I have updated the civ list modifications done by Grishnash and TaillessKangaru. I have also updated Iran as done by Krug (I hope he's still around, around is always better than nothing especially if you're busy)

I repeat, I need 3 votes on religions. Would you rather the following setup

SETUP A

Animism
Shamanism
Paganism
Pantheonism

or... SETUP B

Native Spiritality
Traditional African Religion
Celtic
Egyptian
Roman
Greek
Cannanism
Norse
Mesoamerican
and any others not yet included... all they need is to be the state religion of at least one civ

Personally, I think setup B could present a very lengthy list, and while they were important religions to the civilization associated with it, they didn't properly spread, as religions spread in-game. I think Setup A is very accurate, and minimalist while not overly so. My vote therefore goes with Setup A

I would like 3 to 4 votes on Setup A or Setup B. Please vote, that's the simplest I can make this religion debate.

Also, please state whether you think Nestorianism, Arianism, and Tibetan Buddhism should be included. Please vote on all 3, individually. Tibetan Buddhism, although it spread a little, is associated with only one civ in this mod- Tibet. Nestorianism and Arianism I also need some opinions on.

I'd also like to that this time to thank Grishnash for sticking around for so long and express my hope that he'll see it through to the end. This goes for anyone else who has been around (ie EvilTheMonkey, Moopoo, LastOne36), I hope that you guys will stick around.

Oh and thank you (Chiyochan) for the information on how to access information/downloads on the religion and schisms stuff, I appreciate it and I imagine it could be put to good use

Kevin
 
I would go for setup A with some qualifications. First when you said Pantheonism, is that the same as Pantheism (ie the believe that god is an abstract concept and encompasses everything)? In which case I would put it in. Second I would include Sun Worship in this group, mostly so that we can have potentaily one religion for each isolated region (I'm thinking of the americas here).

Personally I wouldn't include the 3 smaller religions you mentioned simply because of there limited impact, though I would put say Zoroastrianism and maybe even Shinto in, so I guess its up to you. But if you go to that extent why not go for option B (but if you do that you'd have to restrict religion to specific civs which seems to me to dilute the point of religion in the game).

As for sticking around, this mod has got me far too interested for me not to see it through to the end. Keep up the excellent work kevin :goodjob:
 
Setup A, but prevent the religions from having Holy Cities (for example, the Holy City of Greek polytheism can;t be in Scandinavia, but if both Civs are under Polytheism...etc).
 
@ETM thank you :goodjob: I appreciate the support

It looks like I'll take setup A, and the vague religions, ie paganism, pantheonism, etc. will not have holy cities.

@ETM (again)- no, pantheonism is just pantheonism- having a pantheon of gods, ie Rome, Greece, Celtia, Scandinavia, Egypt, Mesoamerica, etc.

However, I am debating splitting Sun Worship as you suggested, as long as this includes Incan spirituality. I will also have to check to make sure there aren't other mainly-sun-worshippers. But I think it will likely stay how it is, just because since it doesn't have a holy city, it would be a little pointless, as long as I can find a way of giving Pantheonism or Paganism to N/S America. I'd might as well use one of these

@SadoMacho- thanks

@LastOne36- I am getting better at python, and perhaps a modification of immigration mod or well-planned events will do the trick for immigration


People, please offer civic naming assistance wherever you can. In CivJunction, in the civics thread, I have listed the civic categories thus far. Please help provide names for individual civics- I can make up the effects, I just don't know what a lot of would-be civics are called, to do the research

Otherwise, I am mostly working on the map-related stuff, as it will be released soon for any interested modders

@Gooblah- glad youre still around and nice map of Greece


EDIT: information on all the bonuses is up on civjunction (in resources thread)


Kevin
 
Glad to be around. I'l help with Civic Namin'.

Edit: Currency/Economic:

Currency Civics:
• Barter System: (Low) Inflation rises by 1% every 100 years, + 2 :mad: per city
• Commodity System (Medium): Inflation rises by 1% every 100 years, -5% maintenance costs per city
• Fiat System (High): No inflation, +15% maintenance costs per city
• Hard Currency (Medium): Inflation rises by 1% every 100 years , +1 :) per Gold, Silver
• Soft Currency (Low): inflation rises by 1% every 10 years, -10% maintenance costs per city
Economic Civics:
• Decentralization (no upkeep): -5% :beakers: per city, -10% maintenance costs per city
• Mercantillism (high upkeep): + 1 :) per 500 gold per city; no foreign trade routes; +1 free Scientist or Merchant per city
• Collectivism (high upkeep): +10% :beakers:, :culture: per city; no food surplus; - 10% production
• Laissez-Fair Capitalism (low upkeep): +20% :commerce: per city; + 1 free specialist per city
• Mixed Economy/Capitalism (med. upkeep): Must be in Hard or Soft Currency to run; +10% commerce per city
• Corporatism (med upkeep?): No foreign Corporation spread; -50% corporation maintenance costs; Must be in Soft Currency to run.
 
Social Policy Civics:
• Tribalism (Low): No effect
• Caste System (Medium): + 1 :( per 2 population; +2 Artists, Scientists, Priests, or Merchants per city
• Communalism (Medium): -1 :food: from Cottage, Hamlet, Town, Village; +1 :hammers: from Farm; +1 :) from Granary, Aqueduct
• Nationalism (High): +1 :) per military unit; -25% war weariness;
• Egalitarianism (Low): +1 :) per city; +1 :) from Courthouse, Jail
• Internationalism (Medium): +2 trade routes per city; +25% war weariness; +20% commerce from trade routes
Suffrage Civics:
• Plutocracy (Low): +1 free Merchant per city; -3 specialists per city
• Oligarchy (High): -1 trade route per city; + 10% military unit production; + 10% building construction
• Majority (Medium): + 1:) per 10% of Civilization’s culture in city; -25% city maintenance costs
• Universal (Medium): +2 :) per religion in city; + 10% :commerce: per city
 
Gooblah- thank you, and I hope you'll stick around to the end :) It's taking ages and ages just to type up all the information, this civ list of mine is a leviathon and admittedly this will be a very long project... but I guess if anyone is persistent enough to do it it's me

~~~

I will be going on a cruise starting this Sat. and I'll be back 8 days later. EDIT: I'll update the new civic info once I'm back

I have done MASSIVE updates to civ information (CivJunction forum). You can ignore most of the Preferred Civics: these aren't right now actual civics but rather tendancies that will later help me to pick the real preferred civics. That's why I only have repetitions/variations of the same 4 civic names (centralization or decentralization, mercantillism or free trade, aristocracy or plutocracy, serfdom or free subjects)

Also, I urge everyone to help out with civic names. I was just about to ask again when Gooblah posted :P This is a prerequisite for continuing work on civs. If anyone has even a few minutes of spare times giving me some civic names would be great, because it's easy to research, but hard when you don't know how to research, caz you don't know what a certain policy is called

And Gooblah, good job, and if you're ever too busy for full civics, I would be more than happy with mere civic names. Just as long as I soon have civic names for each of the categories we should be fine and able to continue with civs (not that I don't like and greatly appreciate more :P)

ps. I read Guns, Germs and Steel (or whatever its called) and I'm reading Collapse now


Also, I was having way too many problems (files going missing...) and reinstalled Civ4, and now it won't even run. So yeah. I hope I can fix this before I get a new computer half a year or one and a half years from now.

Kevin
 
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