World History Mod development thread

[kevinman4404]

Alright, I meant just leaderheads and flags, which I am able to do with little effort. I may actually do Africa first, so I can help Grishnash fill out the list.

Updated Aztec, Cherokee, Iroquois
Will start posting info on UUs and UBs in the proper forum

If I can code a religion's characteristics, I will... I will do everything I can to differentiate them

And I'll do some research on Olmec art and see how I can tweak the LH, if need be. I am already changing some backgrounds for civs on other continents (as well as Moreno from South America)

Kevin

 

[Krug]

Pondering This one for a while...Anyway.

UNITED STATES (formerly New England)
Leader: George Washington
Personality: Financial, Industrious, Organized
UU1:Continental Marine(Replaces Rifleman), Starts with Morale and Commando.
UU2:Navy SEAL (You know this one)
UB1:Baseball Stadium (Replaces Colosseum), +2 Per 20% Culture Rate
UB3:Mall
UP1ower of Capitalism, Nation is twice as likely to Produce Great Merchant from the Start.
UHV 1: Expand to the Current Area of the US (Including Alaska and Hawaii) by 1900
UHV2:Eliminate Nazi Germany by 1945
UHV3: Develop the Manhattan Project First
UHV4:Eliminate Imperial Japan by 1945
Rating: 5/5/5 [5]

HURON/ALGONQUIN NATIVES
Leader: Tarhe
Personality:
UU1:Mantlet (Replaces Spearman), +100% vs. Mounted Units, +25% City Defense (I don't know how you'll program this, but I'll throw it out there)
UB1:Midewiwin (Replaces Library), +25% Science, Can turn three citizens into scientists.
UP1ower of the Great Lakes, Work Boats can move one Extra Tile.
UHV1:?
Rating: 1/2/1 [1]

Oh yeah, and I'm also ready to start writing Civlopedia Articles.

 

[moopoo]

Nice effort there Krug. However, I think Work Boats moving one extra tile is a God Awful power to have.

 

[kevinman4404]

Updated... Heh I think you kind of underdid USA's personality, they are almost definitely the most imperialistic and one of the most aggressive nations there are. They are also very conservative. Use whatever you need to describe the nation

Do whichever civilopedia articles at your leisure, really doesn't matter how or when they are done, and this is still a long-term project.

I have covered Canada, though I am still thinking of a UB, power, and any more traits, so let me know if you have any in mind.

@Moopoo- a crappy power for a crappy civ However, I expanded it to include transports, as they used to travel by canoe a lot

Oh, and great job so far Krug!

Kevin

 

[Krug]

I have covered Canada, though I am still thinking of a UB, power, and any more traits, so let me know if you have any in mind.

@Moopoo- a crappy power for a crappy civ However, I expanded it to include transports, as they used to travel by canoe a lot

Oh, and great job so far Krug!

Kevin

Geez, I hope no Huron are watching, but the thing is, what did the Huron really do? Besides appear in Last of the Mohicans, and get a Lake named after them.

Thanks for the compliment! I just want this to see the light of day.

 

[kevinman4404]

Well, from my extremely vague memory on the Huron, they were allied for a while with the Iroquois, then broke that and fought hard with them. They also made alliances with Europeans, I think the French. They are actually perhaps the most widespread native group left in north america, living traditionally (outside those native internment things) in a hugeee area of Canada. They also go by the name Algonquin, and I am sort of referring to them as a whole, but mainly the ones that were in and out of battle with the Iroquois and colonists.

I'm guessing we can come up with some UHVs from that. But yeah they are still a rather unimportant civ.

I'd put slightly more priority on civ info than civilopedia, though you're more than welcome to work on those. If you know offhand where to get/where you got something, let me know, so I can borrow it from that mod. I'm surprised CivGold has so much. Do they have UU artwork for the ones you cited?

I did some updating, and added in the UU and UB information in the proper CivJunction thread.

ATTACHED: for the person who requested it

Kevin

 

[Grishnash]

Ah, Kevin, the Benin I've done was the Benin Empire, not the Benin Nation. Benin Empire was never Dahomey, that's the Republic of Benin which I don't have on my list (It's too small a nation). I think to keep people from getting them confuessed is to have the Benin Empire called the Edo Empire which it was also known as.

I don't think that those United State UHVs are the best to go by....
And okay, I could be wrong here but, I really don't see how Native Americans siding with Europeans would be the best UHV... Seeing as how most(if not all) of them did at one point or another and got rewarded with.... As you can see. Maybe they should be made :Build Defensive Pact and Fight in a War on the side of at least Native American Nation against Europeans. Seeing as to how divided they were, and if they were able to form a unified front to stop European conquest then they may have been able to survive. But having a UHV with them siding with the Europeans is not the best idea.

 

[kevinman4404]

I'm now inclined to agree about America's UHVs; the first one is likely not a good idea, as it kind of defeats the purpose of the goals, and I'd rather the UHVs are some sort of half-historical/half-ideal goals based on historical information, rather than simply being based on the results of the wars. Did USA even want to invade all of Japan (I'm not saying they didn't, I just never knew they did). Stuff like invade Nazi Germany would be a goal for all of the allied civs if I included it.

We also need to decide whether we want the goals to be highly historical or highly ideal. As of now, this could range from "do what they've done in real life" to "conquer the whole world."

I'm also not very exact with the names of these civs. I was indeed referring to the empire, but it seems that there was some overlap between the Benin empire and the Benin Republic/Dahomey

As for the natives, it could also be argued that getting on really good terms with a European civ is their only way of survival. But I will see if I can come up with something better and let both of you know

~~~

Progress is going well. I have updated some UHVs in the main forum, and am almost done Wintermod, I think.

Kevin

 

[Grishnash]

I think UHV should lean away from historic events. UHVs are IMO thing that if done, that civilization would be a... superpower in the world of today. So highly ideal with historic reasoning should be would UHVs are, I.E. Russia: Control siberia and Alaska by 1600AD.

And As for the natives, I don't see how good of terms they could get. Remember, the natives welcomed the Europeans with open arms, they fought other natives with them, gave them land, saved a countless number of their men of all rank and title. I just don't see what on earth the Natives could have done to become on good terms with the European Imperialist. And on top of that, when the Americans come about, it wouldn't matter what europeans like the natives, the Americans would still wipe them out. But that's just my opinion.

Anyways, glad to her of progress! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK OR I WILL EAT YOU!

 

[kevinman4404]

@Grishnash: Thank you for your opinion on both. With the natives, I'll try and come up with a better option.

Does anyone else have an opinion on the UHVs? Personally, I tend to want to avoid totally historical ("expand to USA's modern-day real-life territory") and superpower (example you provided, because of the date obviously). I seem to like it when it offers a way for the civ to be a little improved over how it is in real life, like what you did with a lot of the African UHVs. However, for some, I don't mind historical specifics. I so far have done a lot of goals like in EU3. Until we come to a conclusion on this, either method is acceptable, as with idealistic goals, as long as they're not too extreme.


Now, for future modding, as I said, I want to redo how borders are drawn. I do not want this square culture=borders thing. I need to hear some opinions on how the borders are drawn, how territory works, how it changes, etc. I will also need opinions on what to do with culture now that it doesn't set your borders.

Progress is going pretty well

PS. I am getting 2 books from chapters (I have a chapters gift cert.), Guns, Germs and Steal, and Collapse. I am quite the history buff and know a ton of facts and figures, and way more about geography, but these books might give me some ideas on some of the future game mechanics, how to make civs strong/weak and which ones will be strong/weak, among other things.

PS2. I hope Krug hasn't forgotten about us already

Enjoy your holidays!

Kevin

 

[Acerbus]

Now, for future modding, as I said, I want to redo how borders are drawn. I do not want this square culture=borders thing. I need to hear some opinions on how the borders are drawn, how territory works, how it changes, etc. I will also need opinions on what to do with culture now that it doesn't set your borders.

Maybe borders should be somehow connected to military power? Seems to make sense that the more people you have patrolling the countryside and ready to attack any hostile parties, the larger amount of land you could hold. Don't know how that would work, though. Maybe make forts important for increasing borders, maybe tie it to the number of units garrisoning a city. A few more concrete suggestions, though:

1) Perhaps you should need a military unit to perform some sort of "claim tile" action on a neutral (unoccupied) tile in order to make it yours. The tile then remains yours for N turns. After N turns, you need a military (or a tax-collector?) unit to claim it again, or the tile could become restless and useless to the city, eventually turning into an unoccupied square again.

You could set your units to "patrol the countryside" mode, which would make them move around automatically and perform the land-claiming action when needed. If there is too much claimed land surrounding the city and too few units to patrol it all, then your units will just be overwhelmed with the task and tiles will start turning back into neutral, until you have few enough tiles, so that the units could manage to renew all of them within the time limit.

There should be a limit to the overall number (or distance from city) of tiles you can claim. This limit would be dependent on your city size, civic choices, culture, maybe some other criteria. You should always be in control of the 8 tiles nearest to the city. Maybe the amount of turns a tile remains yours could be dependent on civic choices, buildings, the unit that claimed the tile (maybe some new promotions could come in handy?) and so on.

2) When border tension kicks in, maybe you could sign a border contract with your neighbor. For example, if you click something on the trade screen, you go back to the main gameplay screen, only now it has an overlay like during advanced start. This allows you to designate the tiles which you want to control in the disputed area. The other side can then make another offer and so on until you reach a compromise.

The borders would then remain fixed regardless of the culture level in each tile. Even if your tile has 95% foreign culture, it would still remain yours as long as there is a border contract binding it to you. Culture would still spread normally in foreign squares, and border cities could become restless if they have too much of the neighbor's culture. When a city revolts and flips to another civ, the border contract would automatically be ended.


Just throwing out some ideas. It's around 2:30 AM right now, so my post probably doesn't make sense. When I wake up and read this again, I'll probably scream and pull my hair at how stupid I sound right now.

 

[Gooblah]

Borders would initially be determined by culture (the current system), until a set event or tech is researched. From then on (this would require HEAVY modding):

1) Player-Set Borders: Enter the strategy layer. Click on [Territory]. A culture map appears. Start clicking on tiles that you want. These can be anywhere within the cultural radius of your city (even if it's another city).
2) Negotiating Borders: Now, this is where it gets fun. Every nation whose borders you 'encroach' upon, their leader will be pulled up to talk to you. Instead of the normal diplomacy options, there's a small map of the area the negotiations are talking about. The options are:

Will you accept these changes?
What would make this deal work?
Never mind...

Click on Option 1 and the Leader will say "Yes.", and the border's reset - if "no," then hit the second option. The Leader will rearrange the border to suit his or her needs. Negotiate for a bit, find what you want, make a deal - BAM!
The culture shifts around a bit and the borders are adjusted. For exactly 20 turns, these borders will remain the same. Culture mechanics will kick in after these turns pass.

 

[Grishnash]

I've already posted an Idea on borders, don't know if you've seen them or not, but yeah...

Anyways, I think I know what the Mongol UHVs should be.
1st: Control Asia by 1300AD for 200 years.(Not counting the middle-east or Japan.)
2nd: Control the middle-east by 1400AD for 100 years.
3rd: Control Europe by 1500AD and while at least shaky*Stability (Not counting England)

And for the US:
1st: No European colonies on the Americas by 1800AD.
2nd: Control at least 10 Oil patches and 3 Vassals by 2000AD.
3rd: Build the Manhattan Project and Apollo Program by 1950AD.

For Russia it could be:
1st: Control Siberia, Finland and Alaska by 1700AD.(Vassals not counted, excluding Finland)
2nd: Control area of USSR and Afghanistan by 1900AD (can be done with Vassals)
3rd: Never lose a city by 2000AD. (Areas of USSR and Alaska must be Russia(Vassals counted, excluding Alaska) to win)
4th?: (Maybe merge this with one of the above) Build the Apollo program by 1950.
5th?: (Maybe merge with one of the above) State property civic from 1900AD to 2000AD.)
6th?: (Again, maybe merge with above. Also, would need my idea of Ideologies for this one) Spread Communism to 75% of the world.

For China I have some ideas for their UHVs but again like Russia, some need to be merged somehow...
1st: Control the area of the People's Republic of China 0AD. (excluding Tibet)
2nd: Build the Great Wall of China by 200BC
3rd: Army size of 200 war units by 0AD
4th?: No cities lost to Mongols or Barbarians by 1500AD
5th?: No foreign culture on the whole of Asia by 1900AD (Excluding India and the middle-east and Siberia, and excluding Barbarian and other Asian cultures)

Japan's:
1st: No foreign culture, no trade or open borders, embassies(if WH has them) or civics proposed by any civilization and no foreign religion in Japan until 1900AD
2nd: No cities lost by 1900AD.
3rd: Have seven cities connected by culture and land routes off of mainland Japan by 1950AD.

Arabia's could be:
1st: Spread Islam to at least 50% by the end of the 17th century.
2nd: Control at least 3 holy cities by 1300AD.
3rd: Vassal or have alliances with all Islam States by 1750AD.

Aztecs might be able to be:
1st: No Europeans on Central America and Southern United States until 1700AD.
2nd: Control Central America and Mexico by 1600AD(Vassals counted)
3rd: Kill at least three European settlers, fifty military units and a dozen ships by 1750AD.

The UKs could be:
Control at least three cities on every continent in the world by 1730AD.
Control at least four vassals by 1750AD.
Control the whole of North America by 1800AD.

Another thing, I think every Civilization should have the same amount of Us, like in RFC, for Game Balance

 

[Krug]

Sorry for my lack of activity,

Another thing, I think every Civilization should have the same amount of Us, like in RFC, for Game Balance

Problem with that is, more Powerful Nations, with a better starting position, might be able to get to their UHVs faster than, say and nation like Huron.

I think stronger Nations need more UHVs, but I agree on all nations having the same amount of UBs and UUs.

 

[Grishnash]

Sorry for my lack of activity,



Problem with that is, more Powerful Nations, with a better starting position, might be able to get to their UHVs faster than, say and nation like Huron.

I think stronger Nations need more UHVs, but I agree on all nations having the same amount of UBs and UUs.

Not necessarily. The civilizations that start out better off, or even before other nations would have their UHVs harder then others. Their UHVs would take longer or what not... JMO

Hey, I would like some comments on three Ideas of mine, their in the Idea Pit on the official World History Forum. Link: http://civjunction.freeforums.org/idea-pit-t258.html

 

[Krug]

Ah, Ideology, that should be in there, as technically, it was like a religion in the cold war. That's an Idea that needs to go in. Nazism and Facism should be the same, as Hitler was a Facist. Nazi was just the name of his political party. Fundementalism/Therocracy should be another, to represent Nations like Iran that are islamic Republics, or the Nations like the Holy Roman Empire

Fendementalism
Plus one relations with Fendemnatalist States, minus with Fundementalist states. Cities with State Religion gain +15% Defense.


I like UCGs as well, I'll make some ideas for them later.

 

[Grishnash]

Fundamentalism is a good idea, it could be added to the Ideologies if their added to WH.

Nazism, officially called National Socialism, refers primarily to the ideology and practices of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party under Adolf Hitler; and the policies adopted by the government of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945.
Nazism is sometimes considered by scholars to be a form of fascism. I think it 'could' be it's own Ideology... maybe

 

[Krug]

Okay, something I noticed,

Golden Horde isn't the best name for the Mongol Empire, as it's commonly termed as the Russian Khanate that rose after Ogedei Khan's death. If you wish to include the Golden Horde, then to be frank, you should include the Ilkhanate, Changtai Khanate, and Timurid Empire as well. As they all rose from the Mongol Empire's ashes.
------------------------------
First Nation to utilize Ideology!

YEMEN
Leader:Abdullah al-Sallal
Personality:revolutionary, nationalistic, aggressive
UU1:Maqil Soldier (Replaces Cavalry), Not Affected by Terrain Movement Costs, Normal Cavalry Abilities
UB1:Qat Market (Replaces Grocer), Normal Grocer Abilities, +3, +1
UP1:?
UHV1: Defensive Pact with Egypt by 1957 A.D. (See The United Arab States)
UHV2: No European Influences in Yemen by 1967 A.D. (For this I was thinking tat when the Yemen Spawns the are at war with the Ottoman Empire and must Carve Yemen out for themselves, also Britain needs to be around there too (See The History of South Yemen))
UHV3: All Cities contain State Ideology and Friendly relations with all Nations of the same Ideology by 1990 A.D. (There was once a South Yemen, and a North Yemen, with one being a Republic, and the other, a Communist State, its up to the play to decide the which to side with..)
Rating: 3/3/? [?]

 

[kevinman4404]

@Krug: np, just chip away at the civs when you can, hope you're having a good holiday

Updated Yemen. Here are the updated goals for the civs chosen by Grishnash:

UNITED STATES
UHV1: No European colonies in North America by 1800 A.D.
UHV2: Control 10 oil and 3 vassals by 2000 A.D.
UHV3: Complete the Manhattan Project and Apollo Program by 1950 A.D.
UHV4: Establish and lead NATO.
UHV5: Start X number of wars and something to do with capitalism.
UHV6: Something to do with being a top nation

GREAT BRITAIN
UHV1: Build five factories with world's highest production (to be edited)
UHV2: Control 25% of world landmass by 1920 A.D.
UHV3: Annex Scotland, Wales?, N. Ireland and declare United Kingdom/Great Britain by 1850 A.D.
UHV4: 3 cities on every continent (except Ant.) by 1730 A.D.
UHV5: Control all of North America by 1800 A.D.

AZTEC
UHV1: Control Mexico and Central America, vassals counted, by 1575 A.D.
UHV2: Eliminate a civ by 1492 A.D.
UHV3: No Europeans on Mexico/Central America as of 1675 A.D.

ARABIA
UHV1: Islam most popular religion by 2000 AD
UHV2: Control at least 3 holy cities by 1300 AD
UHV3: Make world 50% Islam by 1700 AD
UHV4: Vassal/Ally with all Islam states by 1700 AD and maintain for a while

CHINA
UHV1: Control area of the PRC by 0 AD
UHV2: Build Great Wall by 200 BC
UHV3: Army of 200 units by 0AD
UHV4: No cities lost to Barbarians, Mongols, Nomads by 1500 AD
UHV5: No non-Asian culture on Asia (possible exceptions: India, middle-east, Sibera, barbarian culture)(how on earth am I going to manage this )

JAPAN
UHV1: No foreign culture, trade, open borders, embassies, accepted civic proposals, foreign religion until 1900 A.D.
UHV2: No cities lost by 1900 AD (under evaluation)
UHV3: Have seven cities connected by land/culture by 1950 AD

Let me know if there are any quams/suggestions, obviously I threw some of my ideas into the mix


Grishnash, I seem to remember you posting about borders once, I'll have to look for it, I really don't remember what the idea was. Once I have seen it, I will try to come up with a system I can use, and give my opinions on the systems Gooblah and Acerbus have posted.

About your Ideologies, I will reply shortly in the thread you made on CivJunction

About UCGs, these sound good, and I can likely use these sort of for WW1+2, among other things

About UUs and UBs, you guys are forgetting the main goal of the mod It is not to be a balanced game at all, but to be historically accurate. As long as we are being accurate, and the number of UUs or UBs doesn't make the civ disproportionately strong or weak, I am happy. So please keep this in mind and do not be afraid, for now, to use more UUs and UBs. Do whatever you feel will most accurately represent the civ.

Also, RP (real progress) will be slow, until mid-March, as I have auditions and exams before that. I will likely still be around similarly in the forums and help with idea-making, but that is it, aside from a little work on the map, hopefully.

Kevin

CONTINUATION:

I'll throw in a format for the civ information, though you are more then welcome to just chip away at stuff. But this is what it should look like when finished:

LEADER: Name of most suitable leader. Max 1.
PERSONALITY: Traits. These should be halfway between the "personality" of the civ and the personality of the chosen leader. Please use however many you need to describe the civ and do NOT worry about balancing. There is a list provided below but you may make up trait names off the top of your head- you are just describing the personality.
UU#: Name of UU. Include details, though I will place these in a different thread. Please, if you know of any, link to a picture, or at least give suggestions to how I can edit the graphics of the replaced unit to be unique. I have no idea what most UUs suggested so far look like. Also, there is no max., and I'm aiming for at least one per civ. I encourage you to have as many as will be historically accurate.
UB#: Name of UB. Include details, though I will place these in a different thread. Please, if you know of any, link to a picture, or at least give suggestions to how I can edit the graphics of the replaced building to be unique. I have no idea what most UBs suggested so far look like. Also, there is no max., and I'm aiming for at least one per civ. I encourage you to have as many as will be historically accurate.
UP#: Unique powers. Right now, this is pretty abstract. This just helps individualize each civ and illuminates their special characteristics. These can also be used to make stronger civs stronger and weaker civs weaker. No limit as to number, but you probably won't come with too many per civ.
UHV#: Goals. These should be balanced, somewhere between historical goals and idealistic goals. Stronger civs (ie USA, Russia) should lean towards ideal goals, to give them more work to do, while weaker civs should lean towards historical goals (ie Aragon: conquer Sicily). There is absolutely no limit to the number of goals. Also, make sure I can code. If you can, please look at RFC goals, and if possible base these off those, so I don't have to code. I will post these later on. If it is not based on these, please suggest how to code it to the best of your ability, if you have the time.
START: Date. A little before aprox. when the civ came into being.
END: Date. A little before aprox. when the civ left us.
PREFERRED CIVICS: What civics has this civ leaned towards throughout its history?
PREFERRED RELGION: Exactly that. State free religion or no religion if applicable.
PREFFERED IDEOLOGY(IES): See Grishnash's thread called "Idea Pit." Examples are communism and capitalism, but there are many more, and these are closely tied to civics. I do not know how these will work yet. It was suggested they act like corporations but I am also considering having them act like civics. Include as many as will be accurate.
UNIT/TECH-SET: Does this civ belong to Europe, Middle East, East Europe, Native, Asian, African, Nomadic/Tribal, Native American or Mesoamerican group? This will determine the tech tree and base unit set the civ will follow, as obvious they differed enormously between these regions.
ARTSTYLE: This will determine how the cities will look. Possible choices are Basic European, Mediterannean, Romano-Greco, Norse(Scan.), Islamic, Eastern, Asian(China, Korea, Japan, etc.), Southeast Asian(Khmer etc.), Basic African, Mesoamerican, Eastern North American Native, Western North American Native, Plains Native, Tribal, Nomadic, Ancient Egyptian. An Eastern Europe/Russian artstyle may come, so please use this for all appropriate civs.
OTHER: Include if other considerations need to be made for this civ.
RATING: In most cases, this is already provided. If somewhere it is not, or is not provided fully, you may suggest a rating. The first number is military, the second is economy, and the third is starting situation. Note that these are not preferences and are not proportionate to eachother. It is a rating of how that civ's military, economy and position compare to all other civs, particularily at that time.

Feel free to post civ stuff (if you want to instead) in the civ thread at CivJunction, linked to in the first page, in case anyone hasn't yet found it. But I check all 3 forums (civJunction, here, map thread) and either here or CivJunction are fine for civ info.

Kevin

 

[Grishnash]

Happy New Year! - 12:00AM

- When the power of love overcomes the love of power... The World will know peace. -

"If I could tell the world just one thing
It would be that we're all ok
And not to worry because worry is wasteful
and useless
Singing Amen, I, I'm alive
If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we'd see the day when nobody died
Every mother every father
Raise your sons and your daughters
With respect and with hornor
From the seed comes a fruit
I Have To Find My Peace Cuz
No One Seems To Let Me Be
False Prophets Cry Of Doom
What Are The Possibilities
I Told My Brother
There'll Be Problems,
Times And Tears For Fears,
We Must Live Each Day
Like It's The Last
And the dream we were
Conceived in
Will reveal a joyful face
And the world we
Once believed in
Will shine again in grace
Then why do we keep
Strangling life
Wound this earth
Crucify its soul
Though its plain to see
This world is heavenly
Be gods glow" - Various Artist

“In a world filled with hate, we must still dare to hope. In a world filled with anger, we must still dare to comfort. In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream. And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe.” - Michael Jackson

Happy New Years - 12:00:00AM NEW YEARS DAY