World History Mod development thread

[moopoo]

To be honest, Kevin, I'm not sure 3d leaderheads are necessary at all. They're great to add for the style of the game, but especially in early stages like this (computer power and creating the mod -wise) it seems like it's just another thing that can go wrong.

I only recognize like half the civs there, but it looks like a good list =P

 

[kevinman4404]

Yeah, I guess that's why I've halted that. I might finish the one I nearly finished (McGillivray, which is behaving a bit weirdly but is otherwise great) and I might do Gabriel Moreno, which would be a simple modification. But for 95% of the remaining leaderheads on all continents I'll use a 2d leaderhead (or, failing that, a nice question mark). But if new leaderheads come about say in CivGold, I will use those whenever possible

I am guessing the civ list is agreeable then! Let's call it final (though seriously, if anyone has any suggestions, offer them!).

I have finalized and posted the flags. They may be viewed in the 3rd? post in the CivJunction Civs thread. note: borders will not be present in-game, they are so you can see the white areas
EDIT: Please don't look at them yet! I need your opinion on one particular flag which is in the next post, THEN I'd like you to look and get the overal impression (which will hopefully be great!) EDIT: I also missed a flag

My essay will be done Wed. GeneralSpecific, let me know once you've become freed up from midterm stuff!

Kevin

 

[kevinman4404]

OK, time for a break from all the hard work, just a moment to lighten up the mood a little bit.

Which flag do you prefer?

This one is simple and started off even simpler. It is the temple of the Sun, with, of course, a Sun in the background. And while this is obviously relevant for a Teotihuacan flag (that's one of the two grand temples at Teotihuacan), there's no evidence to suggest that it was "The" thing of the time. And I like the viewpoint I captured (despite the fact it took like... 2 minutes to make).

So I looked around and finally found a "The" thing. The supreme goddess of Teotihuacan. In front of the temple so not just is it very accurate it combines the two ideas, making it easier to choose. Well, three ideas, because of the nighttime, for the other (smaller) temple of the moon. The problem is, imagine that at in-game size, and imagine how hard it will be to see. It might not be an issue, but much detail will be lost. You would still be able to tell it is some sort of mythical figure holding out its hands, and guess where its eyes are, but no stars (for reference). Usable, but not as cool. (yes, i was bored)

OK, so there we have it! They both look a little cartoony. Unmatching simplicity or unmatching, ridiculous, pointlessly lost detail? I need 2 votes (plus one in event of a tie)!

 

[Gooblah]

I like the first flag, due to the simplicity. The second looks a lot cooler, but distortion may kill it.

Also, flags are relatively easy to set up, right? Just grab a flag, make it 128x128 on Paint, increase horizontal by 125%, and then save as a DDS DXT3 using a program like DXTBmp. I can start making some.

 

[kevinman4404]

@Gooblah: alright (one more vote folks). I really don't know how its done normally. Because normally it's a square flag. And I'm not 100% sure you fix it by stretching. Maybe, but I don't know. The way I do it is I have a template (from the horizontal flag modification). There is a space for the picture, and black bordering it above and below.

Here are the flag graphics. I will include both teotihuacan flags, though I suspect your vote may be pretty accurate. They are in a word document. I am guessing we don't want the border. So simply click on the flag you are making, choose "no line" on your drawing toolbar, and then copy. EDIT: actually, if you want the borders, you're welcome to omit the "no line" step. Just make sure they're all bordered or borderless. If you choose to keep the borders make sure it gets aligned really carefully. Otherwise we get what I call the "using a scissor to cut an outlined image" effect.

Then, you open my template flag (which is aztec.dds for you), you paste the image, and resize/move the image so that it covers the old image exactly.

Then you use DDS Converter 2 or similar program. Anyways, it's almost as simple, I guess. But I have a feeling you have to do it my way- I think the black above and below is there for a reason.

The template flag and the word document containing all the flag graphics are attached.

EDIT: I have already done Aztec, Cherokee, Chimu, Creek, Huron, Inca, Iroquois, Maya, Mixtec, Olmec, Shawnee, Sioux, Toltec, Zapotec. Please omit these flags. So really, there aren't a lot left to do. And also, the modern and colonial civs will not be needed for quite a while. So the only ones needed right now are Arawak, Carib, Miskito, Nazca, Tarascan Teotihuacan, Tupi. Though you are welcome to work ahead on modern/colonial flags, as they are finalized.

thank you

@Moopoo: sorry about the wait for the settlermaps. I will prepare that as soon as I've handed in my essay on wednsday (more or less)



Gooblah, I also now have duplicates for Tarascan and Nazca. Take your pick.

(By the way some of the flags are just plain brilliant!)

 

[Allan79]

I vote for no 1 too. With the same reason that's its the most simple one. The second one makes me think of the Incas for some reason. Probably because of the extensive colouring.

suggestion to the 1st one may be to make the sun a bit smaller. I actually didn't realize that it was the sun in the background until I read what you had written in the text.

 

[Gooblah]

I'm assuming you're done with Europe, then?

Damn. I have like 50 flags all set up for that. Alright, I'll check those out.

 

[kevinman4404]

@allan79, thank you. I'll experiment with the sun tonight, it was meant to be more symbolic and flaglike, but it would be neat to try a smaller and more meso-y decorative sun

@gooblah: nope. Well, I did quite a bit ages ago. You're welcome to work ahead and do the ones you have, no guarantee 0 changes will be made to Europe ones, but I'm sure they'll be 95%+ what I was intending.

thanks

edit:

@Grishnash (or anyone): I need flags for...

Ghana E.
Moorish D.
Nubia
Numidia
Takrur

(in the event that a flag doesn't exist, I will happily make the remainder. Wikipedia shows flags for Almohad and Almoravid, but I am a bit skeptical. Anyways I don't think one exists for Nubia, so I'll make one up for that. Numidia probably doesn't have a flag per se but there must be some sort of native flag/artwork that I can draw upon)

 

[kevinman4404]

Also, what shall I do about naming? In my opinion no good naming convention exists, and I don't think it would be possibly to accurately name something a(n) empire, kingdom, dynasty, tribe, jihad, caliphate, kha(ga)nate, etc. In most cases there is more than one option.

So my question- should we keep the idea of full names and short names, or just make them all short? Which is what I have done, for the most part, on the civ lists

(on a side note, all leader names will be in full, if possible, and in their proper language, though only using symbols within whatever font I use)



Oh, and if possible, GS, could we have civic ideas out by the end of November? I will be free (more or less) as of Wednsday, and there will only be a small bracket of time before final exam prep. starts. Civics will allow me to finish all the civ info and then I can put everything together (I hope that xml-person is still around... I think the vagueness of my request scared him away)

 

[kevinman4404]

As promised, there is a flag with a sun that cannot be mistaken for anything else, and it is decorative (again, perhaps pointlessly detailed). The detail is still visible at in-game size, though it just looks like a violent/volatile sun

I think the old one looks more flag-like, and this one too cartoony, at in-game size. However, it is cooler

Ultimately I'll leave it up to Gooblah as he's doing a lot of the flagwork but if you have a preference feel free to tell us

 

[moopoo]

I think that for now we should keep the names short, and see if we can find an appropriate naming system. Also, don't stress about the settlermaps - truth be told i haven't had time to even think about them until uni finished just last week.

 

[Gooblah]

My to-do list:
1) Set up Debug DLL for VS2008.
2) Finish the flags for all Wikipedia-able nations. This includes most of Europe, and the modern nations on the various lists.
3) Once Civics are finalized, set up those tags.

 

[nutnut]

For naming them I think stick to the standard Civ4 'The X Empire'. More appropriate names can be sorted later on, it's not really a priority.

 

[kevinman4404]

Ok, from now till 3PM tommorow, essay! A guaranteed all-nighter. That's what I get for procrastinating (though not quite as bad as some other people procrastinated). Though I will probably see a 3-hr. movie in a couple hours. Bad idea? Probably. But it will keep me from turning into an angry zombie.

@Gooblah: great! just so I know, are you able to convert the N/S america designs to .dds, as I described? In any case, it's not urgent. Remember to pick the Tarascan and the Nazca design

@nutnut- yeah, I shouldn't really worry about them at this point, it was just a thought... though if that is the goal (easiness) maybe I should just stick to short naming conventions, I would be able to do it much faster

@moopoo- k

 

[Grishnash]

I came up with two flags for the Moors, either one may be used. For the Numidia's I kinda couldn't find one so I came up with one, you don't hot got use it if you don't want.
And for Numidia, again, couldn't find. But I think it should be like a Numidia pyramid on a yellow flag or something
Ghana and Takrur are harder to come by, maybe someone with more time on their hands could find 'em for you

Moorish Flag1

Spoiler :

Numidian Flag

Spoiler :

Moorish Flag2

Spoiler :

 

[kevinman4404]

@Grishnash: thanks, looks great! I'll design Ghana and Takrur, then. And thanks for all the replies. African info is not terribly far from being done. I would like the inclusion of Fatimid and Mamluk, the only difference between them and something like the southern Muslim nations was that they were in more contact with Arabia, but they are still centered in Africa and all, even if they're not terribly African culturally. However, I too will chip away at them, as I can tell you much prefer researching nations that were African in nature

OH MY GOSH. I was working on my music-hist essay, approaching 48 hours of having had no sleep. Then an hour before one of my classes (which I was planning on skipping to get it done, it got cancelled later anyways), I decided to take a one-hour nap. I double-checked the alarm. The deadline was at 3pm.

I woke up at 3:45. The alarm appeared not to have even been set. Like most large essays it was 40% of my mark and means an instant fail (midterm mark wasnt great, ok but not good). And I have a high-80s average otherwise. That little nap caused me to miss the essay deadline, two classes and almost my mock audition.

You hand the essay to a desk-person in the music building, I explained what happened to that person, and can hand it in first thing tomorrow at 8:30. Gosh that was a nightmare, thank God that secretary is really understanding.

 

[moopoo]

***hugs***

 

[GeneralSpecific]

@ Kev
I have since been finished with my midterm crap, but I have been insanely overwhelmed by projects (right now I could cry for winter break).

I have thought of a few things since...(when was it last?) oh well...
Anyway, I have played some EU3 and have seen some good things from it.

If it interests you, I am thinking of a rights/privileges system that can enhance player influence and power over certain parts of society. Each will provide a different cost/benefit to the player. Note: these are not forms of government, they are distributions of power and favor which can help you form a particular kind of society or power structure.

Theocracy: Give the clergy privilege
Bureaucracy: Give government officials privilege
Technocracy: Give academics privilege
Aristocracy: Give the military privilege
Plutocracy: Give the wealthy privilege

@ anyone: would it be difficult or even possible to distribute a percentage of government favor over different groups through a sort of slider/adjuster system (as in the case of the research/gold/culture/espionage adjuster)? The varying degrees of distribution will determine the degree of the cost and/or benefit to the player.

Something like:

Theocracy: 40% ; religion bonus
Bureaucracy: 20% ; stability/efficiency bonus
Technocracy: 0% ; (if more than 0%...) research bonus
Aristocracy: 30% ; military bonus
Plutocracy: 10% ; income/commerce bonus

PS,
the doability of the above will determine my final suggestion on government civics

 

[kevinman4404]

@moopoo: thankss

Ill let you guys know how I did, I have no idea if I did anything right, really. Her essays are weird. And thank God for that secretary!

@GS: Theres no problem that I am aware of with it. I would love to give players much more control over the shaping of their civ, through the use of an expanded slide system, at some point.

Is it doable? Of course. Would it be hard? Yeah- Ive never done sliders or even any sort of popups before. But at some point I will try to expand the sliders.

(I dont wanna influence your decision, Im sorry I couldnt give a clearer answer, something like that will likely exist at some point. If youre willing, posting both options would be fine! As for when you show the proposal, anytime in the next few weeks is good (though as you said you are busy); as well, Christmas holidays (the best option, since its a holiday), or the beginning of second semester (January).)

And, a beta for all of the African flags- see CivJunction Civs Post 3 (same routine). This does not closely reflect recent changes to which African civs are included (didnt have the time to make changes) However it is very close

 

[GeneralSpecific]

@ kev,
Well then, as for now we could just have them function as civic selections where you can enact only one at a time. Really in any form of government you can privilege certain groups.

I would also like to add a selection - Democracy. Under the selection of Democracy, every citizen is given equal protection (no privilege to any class or group).

I can make the government system in such a way as to allow you development flexibility, that is, a system that won't have to be uprooted whenever you implement a new system elsewhere (such as a slider system) later on.