World History Mod development thread

@kevin

Just a quick progress update. I've integrated about 70% of the techs on your original tree (the biggest problem is connecting the high middle ages to the enlightenment, I'm afraid the renaissance was always my weak point :lol:). The areas I have done are quite a mess of prerequisite lines so I've made them multi coloured to separate them, so now its starting to look a lot like the london underground map! I've tried to add a lot of techs from the old list we made on the civjunction forum from memory (I'm on a different computer to the one I made that tree on, and I won't have access to that info until arround 20th September).

If you (or any one else) has a copy of that tech list, preferably with your red-yellow-green priority colour coding, it should speed things up a great deal.
 
Just figured out what you meant, that list is long gone from when we lost the old forum, I only found a very small amount of information on my computer. The rest I just came up with on the top of my head

best I have is the lineated tech tree that I posted somewhere, besides it is much more polished and up-to-date than that list (though you are basically free to do what you want with it). Now that I think of it, what did you mean by my "original tech tree"? Anyways if you are looking for a reference that is definitely the file to use, it is somewhere in this thread several posts back. Any other files/information by me would be grossly out of date

~~~

water.dds attached upon request, for pretty water just put it in Art/Terrain/Water folder
 
Did not realize that about the large nations, so basically, I like that idea more than dividing them into smaller period nations. Though I think Imperialistic Japan (Meiji-Hirohito) should be separate as like, Nazi Germany, was unusually Aggressive and was poised to take all of Asia. Japan was never willing to do that before.

As far as religions go, Hellenism covered a very large portion of Europe. Anywhere where there was Roman rule there was Hellenism (Up until Constantine). I can't make the same argument for Pesadjet as it in itself was just absorbed into Hellenism in the end. That must be a powerful religion if it is able to Assimilate the Faith of an entire nation into itself like that. The stories within Hellenism continue to inspire artists to this day, it was a very influential Religion, even if it was tied to the not so small region of Europe and the Medditerrainian.

Hopefully I can get more Civlopedias to you by tonight.
 
Anywhere where there was Roman rule there was Hellenism

In other words, they were (essentially) the only nation to embrace the religion. Remember, world religions spread in ways other than conquest. Anywhere there was Roman rule to me means it is a part of the larger "Roman Empire"

Hm, I'm not exactly sure what Hellenism is supposed to mean, because "technically" it refers to the Greeks, but hey both Greece and Rome had it, so maybe it could work.

Another idea is just giving it a generic pantheonistic religion, and letting culture spread this "Hellenism"

Will think about it and let you know anything I come up with!
 
In other words, they were (essentially) the only nation to embrace the religion. Remember, world religions spread in ways other than conquest. Anywhere there was Roman rule to me means it is a part of the larger "Roman Empire"

Hm, I'm not exactly sure what Hellenism is supposed to mean, because "technically" it refers to the Greeks, but hey both Greece and Rome had it, so maybe it could work.

Another idea is just giving it a generic pantheonistic religion, and letting culture spread this "Hellenism"

Will think about it and let you know anything I come up with!

Hellenism I have heard refer to Both, so both the Greeks and Romans did have it. If the Egyptians and Roman religions were combined into one, that too would work, as the were eventually merged in the Following decades after Alexander's Conquest of Egypt.
 
If the Egyptians and Roman religions were combined into one, that too would work, as the were eventually merged in the Following decades after Alexander's Conquest of Egypt.
OK

and having Japan split into aggressive/non-aggressive sounds fine. Having large nations split into periods might be ok on a case-by-case basis
 
@kevin

When I said 'original tree' I mean't the one I made based on that old tech list, not that it really matters at this stage as I think my work on your tree has surpassed it.

By way of update, take a look at what I've got so far; I'd say I've got about 90% of the connections done (not including any more techs that we add later!), would especially appreciate any input on the ones I'm not sure about that I've left unconnected at the bottom of the tree.
 

Attachments

OH I know what you meant by the colours. You meant the excel document.

It looks impressive, I'll look over the whole thing and get back to you tonight!
 
A couple notes:

-beginning techs: I cannot include techs that all civs start off with. Therefore, agriculture, pictograms, hunting, pottery would need to go
-along the lines of the above comment, I would reccomend calling barter "commodity money," since it is slightly more advance than mere bartering, and everyone bartered back then
-what about herbalism? It seems like a decent tech
-domestication techs (including for horses) will be seperate. The only thing you could maybe put is taming, but it's not really a tech, nor is it that important
-what are your thoughts on Divine Right? I realize it is hard to pin down, and isn't much of a technology, but it could make a good requirement for certain civics/government types
-what are your thoughts on optics? Too redundant?
-mail-order catalogue (or just catalogue) may not be the most important tech, but it would fit beautifully between newspaper and consumerism
-public works (government spending on society, ie infrastructure, public buildings, etc.) is weaker; if you choose to include it it could go after social contract
-Classicism I like (don't know about placement though). But Astrolabe, up to you, since it could be included in Navigation. Though it was an obviously important invention
-what's resource-based?
-try to make sure everything falls into columns, as that is how they are sorted in-game. In my attempt at the tech tree, some of mine were slightly to the side, signifying that I had to go back and look at it- it wasn't deliberate

I'm glad you seemed to have spotted my inclusion mistakes (ie simple machines)!

Also, what do the different-coloured-lines signify? EDIT: nevermind, I realized they're there to make the lines easier to follow

I followed as many of the lines as I could, and it seems you did a really solid job connecting them! It's looking really good so far! Thanks for the huge amount of work you've put into it
 
Point by point:

-Reasonable enough, I guess putting them in makes no sence. Propose to move Irrigation back to replace Agri, Pictograms delete outright, replace Hunting with Tribal Warfare, replace Pottery with Brick Making.
-Agreed and implimented
-Where would you put Herbalism?
-Ok. What about replacing Domestication/Horse Training with Leather Working (thus acting as prereq. for saddle and so on)
-Not sure about Divine Rights. I guess I could include it between Priesthood and Monarchy but I'm not sure of its purpose (unless you have a specific civic to link to it that doesn't work with either of these two existing techs).
-Pretty much yes, I've pretty much split it into telescope and microscope
-That is a good point. How about calling it Advertising and add Factory Process as a second prereq (I'm thinking of Josiah Wedgwoods innovations, of which the catalogue was but one)
-As a prereq for Civil Engineering perhaps? (thanks for clarifying its meaning)
-I see Classicism as going in as an Opera prereq (not sure about its prereqs though), I've pretty much replaced Astrolabe with Navigation, I guess I forgot to delete it :D
-Future Tech Social/Economic Policy, you might of heard of Post-Scarcity? its pretty much the same idea
-Rearranging everything into columns as we speak (never was very organised :p)

So what are your plans for domestication, seperate trees, event based?
 
Well for Herbalism, in my mind I see it being researched from Monasticism, but I'm not entirely sure that that is reality as opposed to fiction

Leather working sounds fine

There is only one tech tree, with absolutely everything in it. Then if I need to, I can make certain techs unavailable to certain civs, therefore giving natives, etc. a unique prehistory

This is very similar to what I am doing with units/buildings... very simply, each civ can produce the buildings/unit types it was historically able to produce. (each civ has a list of units and buildings it can produce in the xmls). And I'm considering doing away with the terms "unique unit/unique building." People nowadays try way too hard to fit these things into a mould

Domestication will simply be a line/scattering of techs at the bottom of the tech tree, that will be carefully planned. It can be spread through trade, and spreads like a religion. By carefully choosing the civs that get initial access to it, by making visibility of these bonuses require these techs, and by good map bonus placement, it is possible to accurately model the moving of domestication (for example horses becoming available to Native Americans, or maize moving north into the States)
 
OMG, this is an insanely ambitious project, I just think your project is going to encounter people not caring much after September 21st
 
OMG, this is an insanely ambitious project, I just think your project is going to encounter people not caring much after September 21st

Wouldn't be so sure; there are people still playing CIV2 and CIV3. Civ fans recognise a hardcore game when they see one and if this fulfils even half the goals could be a classic.

Anticipation of this mod is the only reason CIV 4 is still installed on my pc.
 
remember, I do plan on including anything of value (to the best of my ability) from civ5, or at least update/freshen my mod slightly

I have to go, public internet/library closing, I will have internet in 1-2 weeks (just moved). I will continue then

thanks!
 
I have nothing to say... Nope, can't think of anything of any important to post.
Nothing new, nothing old... No point in posting this really. Can't see why I would.

Nothing.

Hmmmm....

Civilization V is out, but then I'm pretty sure every user on this forum already knew that.

Ahh, do you smell that? Smells like gas... and smoke? oh noooo... .

Wait.. False alarm! It was just... nothing.

:D
 
I'm back, I have internet now! Well, I'm sharing it with two other people caz the router isn't working yet, but that's ok for now!

Downloading civ5 right now

Grishnash, you could tell me if you are willing to do a city name map, as described above... I'd appreciate it!

thanks! I will try and get back to work
 
I'll see what I can do with the city name maps, though I'll admit it's not my strong point :D
 
I have excellent news, though it has nothing much to do with the upcoming release... I have the core of the new civics system finished (especially the ones that define the government)! It is astoundingly simple. It is also capable of portraying and type of government along with a few other civics (ie feudalism, constitution, etc.). I am confident that I have filled the void left by our archaic civics person

Here are the main categories/civics:
Legend: #these are the civics that are unlocked/allowed by having this civic#

ECONOMY
Decentralization: Government holds little control over the economy
Mercantillism: Government protects its economy from outsiders while expanding its own influence
Collectivism: Economy/production is the shared responsibility of the citizens; food and wealth is shared or allotted
Capitalism: Workers are free to choose their own paid carrer, and private individuals fit in to the profitable areas of production or service, through their own decision-making and with little intervention from the government, and reap the rewards of such efforts
Economic Governance: Economy is the prime focus of the government, and often highly controlled by the government
Corporatism:

ADMINISTRATIVE DIVISIONS
Decentralization: the government has little power over the entire civ, and much is decided at the local level
City-State: the government concentrates its power in its capital city
Vassalage: the government exerts control through social hierarchy, with no states
Confederation: the weak central government rules over loosely-joined, strong states
Federation: power is shared between a strong central government and weaker state governments
Centralization: the government somehow retains strong control over the entire nation (more research pending)

FOREIGN POLICY
Subjugation: foreign nations should be dealt with by force
Imperialism: foreign nations should be dealt with through military and economic sanctions in the name of expansionism, mercantilism and core beliefs
Occupation: foreign nations should be dealt with through peaceful and forceful occupation
---modern civics---
Unilateralism: foreign nations should be dealt with without the confsideration of the international community
Multilateralism: foreign nations should be dealt with considering the interests of itself and of the international community
Interventionism: foreign nations should be occupied, taken over or sanctioned when pursuing a policy conflicting with our own
Non-Interventionism: foreign nations should be dealt with only on a diplomatic and economic basis

MILITARY
Barbarism: Military service is for personal gain
Mercenary: Military service is contractual and for monetary gain
Militia: Military service is local
Ritual: Military is primarily ceremonial, ritualistic or sacrificial
Warrior Society: Warriors are the essential and commonplace members of society, and are often educated primarily through the military. Service is considered a social responsibility
Fealty: Military service is ceremonial and feudal, usually with the exchange of property for vows
Conscription: military service is forced upon in times of war
---modern civics---
Compulsory: military service is mandatory for all citizens
Voluntary: military service is voluntary, often as a career
International: military service serves international purposes

RULE
Chiefmancy: civ ruled by a powerful chief, or Big Man #Tribalism#
Monarchy: civ ruled by a monarch or emperor, who gets the throne without an election (nepotism, etc.) #Despotism, Absolutism, Administrativism#
Electoralcy: civ ruled by an elected official #Tribalism, Despotism, Administrativism, Merit, Aristocracy#
Theocracy: civ ruled by a religious official or clergy

POWER
Tribalism: ruler is a tribal member committed to the affairs of his tribe
Despotism: ruler with undefined powers who does whatever he chooses
Absolutism: ruler with unlimited power
Administrativism: ruler shares powers with other government officials, often following customs or laws
Merit: ruler was chosen for reasons of merit, at least in theory
Aristocracy: ruler shares power with the elite

GOVERNMENT TYPES
Legend: GOVERNMENT CIVIC, Other Civic, other requirement, Ideology

Tribal Despotism = CHIEFMANCY, TRIBALISM
Tribal Federation = ELECTORALCY, TRIBALISM, Federation
Tribal Democracy = ELECTORALCY, TRIBALISM
Despotic Monarchy = MONARCHY, DESPOTISM
Administrative Monarchy = MONARCHY, ADMINISTRATIVISM
Feudal Monarchy = MONARCHY, ADMINISTRATIVISM, Feudalism
Constitutional Monarchy = MONARCHY, ADMINISTRATIVISM, Constitution
Absolute Monarchy = MONARCHY, ABSOLUTISM
Enlightened Despotism = MONARCHY, ABSOLUTISM, The Enlightenment
Empire = MONARCHY, DESPOTISM/ABSOLUTISM or ADMINISTRATIVE, Imperialism
Revolutionary Empire = MONARCHY, DESPOTISM/ABSOLUTISM or ADMINISTRATIVISM, Imperialism, must be undergoing a revolution or embrace revolutionary ideals
Administrative Republic = ELECTORALCY, ADMINISTRATIVISM
Constitutional Republic = ELECTORALCY, ADMINISTRATIVISM, Constitution
Noble Republic = ELECTORALCY, ARISTOCRACY
Merchant Republic = ELECTORALCY, ARISTOCRACY, Economic Governance
Revolutionary Republic = ELECTORALCY, ADMINISTRATIVISM or DESPOTISM, must be undergoing a revolution or embrace revolutionary ideals
Republican Dictatorship = ELECTORALCY, DESPOTISIM
Greco-Roman Republic = ELECTORALCY, MERIT


CIVICS FOR THE PRECOLUMBIAN NORTH/SOUTH AMERICAN RELEASE:

Spoiler :
POLITICAL DIVISIONS
City-State
Vassalage
Centralization
MILITARY
Ritual
Militia
Warrior Society
FOREIGN POLICY
Subjugation
Imperialism
LEGAL
Customary
Martial?
LAND
Alotted
Common
State?
LABOUR
Quota
Egalitarian?
RULE
Chiefmancy
Monarchy
Electoralcy
POWER
Tribalism
Despotism


Please give me your suggestions for this list... it doesn't need a lot of work, but I need a little more certainty in it

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On the progress front, yes, I am behind. I will be permanently busy, and especially busy in the coming month, but I will find opportunities to get stuff done. And when I can't, I can occasionally chip away at smaller things, or idea-work.

Hoping you are all liking civ5. I could easily foresee this being ported to civ5 in the distant future. The art is very convert-able, and it should be easily mod-able. However, the reason this mod exists right now is because of the existance of RFC Europe, which made it easy to bring rise and fall to my mod. So, all this is very uncertain.
 
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