CyberChrist
You caught my attention
... and with the remarks regarding Libya and NATO the expectancy of any believeable degree of realism in this project took a serious nosedive ...
World History Mod development thread
- Thread starter kevinman4404
- Start date
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
@Cyberchrist: thanks for the heads up
I can understand how someone would be against Libya (let's not get into that here), but few smart, educated people would display the ignorance you showed by supporting NATO.
First of all, noone's political opinions have any bearing whatsoever on what is done with the project, and it will portray even the least-liked parts of history. We have two amateur historians working on making this a complete, historical game. I trust Grishnash with African history, and I happen to know quite a bit about African history myself. So rather than trying to tell me what "really" happened in African history, please take your disrespect somewhere else.
NOTE TO ALL: This is not a place for political debate.
I can understand how someone would be against Libya (let's not get into that here), but few smart, educated people would display the ignorance you showed by supporting NATO.
First of all, noone's political opinions have any bearing whatsoever on what is done with the project, and it will portray even the least-liked parts of history. We have two amateur historians working on making this a complete, historical game. I trust Grishnash with African history, and I happen to know quite a bit about African history myself. So rather than trying to tell me what "really" happened in African history, please take your disrespect somewhere else.
NOTE TO ALL: This is not a place for political debate.
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
The map is now fully independent of RFCE, and the game (and my very very simple rise and fall code) work without errors. I believe the coding hurdle I was having may now be gone. I will try again in a few days.
I believe I am very close to having a working siege system. I cancelled all the stuff that happens when you capture a city, so now when you walk on it, nothing happens, and instead I will do the siege/city capture in python. Below is an outline of how siege would work:
When you walk on a city tile (having defeated any soldiers that happen to be there), you commence a siege (fire graphics appear). The city's militia will either accept you by surrendering, or pop up and fight to the death. How much resistance there is depends on a few factors: size of city population, defending nation's manpower, strength of incoming army and how happy the city is with its old owner.
If there are fortifications, city capture becomes much more difficult. Your unit must stay on the city until the siege is over- leaving will cancel the siege. The better the fortifications are, (generally,) the longer the siege will take. The goal is to make the city surrender, or to make the militia die. Fortifications allow the city to last long enough for reinforcements to arrive and get rid of the attacking army.
The militia are the armed citizens who defend the city. They will gradually die of combat, lack of food, disease, etc. Assaulting the city can reduce or eliminate them, but you run the risk of failing to capture the city, if your army dies.
The militia will eventually surrender, as they run out of food and water or as odds are stacked up against them.
By using siege machinery, or siege engineers, fortifications can be destroyed more quickly, speeding up the siege.
All of this will be easy to code, except for assaulting the city. That will have to come a little later. I don't know how to add a command to a unit.
This system should work well for all types of civilizations. Preview coming soon.
Kevin
More on city sizes and manpower:
I believe I am very close to having a working siege system. I cancelled all the stuff that happens when you capture a city, so now when you walk on it, nothing happens, and instead I will do the siege/city capture in python. Below is an outline of how siege would work:
When you walk on a city tile (having defeated any soldiers that happen to be there), you commence a siege (fire graphics appear). The city's militia will either accept you by surrendering, or pop up and fight to the death. How much resistance there is depends on a few factors: size of city population, defending nation's manpower, strength of incoming army and how happy the city is with its old owner.
If there are fortifications, city capture becomes much more difficult. Your unit must stay on the city until the siege is over- leaving will cancel the siege. The better the fortifications are, (generally,) the longer the siege will take. The goal is to make the city surrender, or to make the militia die. Fortifications allow the city to last long enough for reinforcements to arrive and get rid of the attacking army.
The militia are the armed citizens who defend the city. They will gradually die of combat, lack of food, disease, etc. Assaulting the city can reduce or eliminate them, but you run the risk of failing to capture the city, if your army dies.
The militia will eventually surrender, as they run out of food and water or as odds are stacked up against them.
By using siege machinery, or siege engineers, fortifications can be destroyed more quickly, speeding up the siege.
All of this will be easy to code, except for assaulting the city. That will have to come a little later. I don't know how to add a command to a unit.
This system should work well for all types of civilizations. Preview coming soon.
Kevin
More on city sizes and manpower:
Spoiler :
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
What happened to this and how come the forum link is broken? Is there a place that still has the downloads for this?
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
Hydromancerx- if you mean the mod download, it never existed, not close enough to being ready to test... Recently I've been trying to get the map-related part of the mod released, then I am coming back to this. I will need to get all the basic functionality working properly and tested, then I will fill in all civs at once, then do lesser mechanics (stuff like colonization). All the while I will be filling in blanks (UUs etc). I'm not going to lie there are probably going to be around 400 civs- but this time I have a looser fill in as much as I can strategy. The mod will still perform well enough, a little worse than my mapmod release
The forum is expired (for the second time)- if anyone knows a free forum hoster that doesn't expire due to inactivity, please let me know
The forum is expired (for the second time)- if anyone knows a free forum hoster that doesn't expire due to inactivity, please let me know
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Did you have units like a Petard or Headhunter? I have been looking for models for them. Anyways I am looking for some of the unique units you posted to be added to C2C. If you have any of them still around please post them. It would really save us some time trying to re-make them.
The forum is expired (for the second time)- if anyone knows a free forum hoster that doesn't expire due to inactivity, please let me know
Um, this forum?
EviltheMonkey
One Primate Think Tank
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2006
- Messages
- 85
A bit out of the blue perhaps, but hello again guys 
Been looking into this and its seems like this is just something you have to pay for; free hosting has to make its money somehow, namely with advertising. An inactive forum means no one being exposed to the warm glow of Advert-rays, therefore the plug is pulled.
These guys are at least nice enough to archive content from inactive fora so that members can get all their ideas back. I guess you could then just cut/paste it all into a new forum.
That might be the best we can do for no money.
The forum is expired (for the second time)- if anyone knows a free forum hoster that doesn't expire due to inactivity, please let me know
Been looking into this and its seems like this is just something you have to pay for; free hosting has to make its money somehow, namely with advertising. An inactive forum means no one being exposed to the warm glow of Advert-rays, therefore the plug is pulled.
These guys are at least nice enough to archive content from inactive fora so that members can get all their ideas back. I guess you could then just cut/paste it all into a new forum.
That might be the best we can do for no money.
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
@Hydromancerx: petard, no. Gyrocopter, just change the body of a gunship in 3dsmax, really easy. Headhunter... well, what is that? Something historic or just in general? I sort of have one, though it doesn't actually chop off heads... And yes I think I will be releasing all art. I do not think I will be releasing this mod in stages, so that shouldn't be a problem... I just have to be careful not to spend too much time
Regarding a forum, the idea for this mod has been around a long time but I doubt we are close enough to a release or have the organization neccessary for a forum here.
@ETM: thanks! that is slightly better and I will try using that instead... I have backups on my computer but using that forum will mean I don't have to keep making backups every time something is changed
Kevin
Regarding a forum, the idea for this mod has been around a long time but I doubt we are close enough to a release or have the organization neccessary for a forum here.
@ETM: thanks! that is slightly better and I will try using that instead... I have backups on my computer but using that forum will mean I don't have to keep making backups every time something is changed
Kevin
EviltheMonkey
One Primate Think Tank
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2006
- Messages
- 85
@Kevin
I seem to remember that you had a master list of resources either on this thread or over with the Map stuff and I can't find it anymore. Would be grateful if you could post it again as I've finally got around to sorting the Domestication lines in the tech tree.
Btw. I'm up to 295 techs now, I think when I've got Domestication sorted I'll have another tidy up, its getting muddled again. Do you want me to post it anytime soon for a review?
I seem to remember that you had a master list of resources either on this thread or over with the Map stuff and I can't find it anymore. Would be grateful if you could post it again as I've finally got around to sorting the Domestication lines in the tech tree.
Btw. I'm up to 295 techs now, I think when I've got Domestication sorted I'll have another tidy up, its getting muddled again. Do you want me to post it anytime soon for a review?
The Capo
godless Heathen
Hey Kevin, awesome stuff here, this mod looks very promising. I am also working on a mod (click Diplomacy II in my signature) and have a lot of unreleased material. Maybe we can swap art or something. What do you think?
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
@ETM:
resources:
I'd love to see it when you've done that and organized it!
@The Capo:
Thanks and sure. I will keep an eye on your mod and if I can help you know I'll try
In response to your PM, WHM is basically supposed to be a historical (as opposed to broad market) mod where you can jump in at any point in history and experience it. I want the mod to some day be something I can invest my knowledge of history into, and make that into something liveable. Unfortunately not a whole lot has been done considering the long time it's been around. My old computer could not handle it, and only recently have I figured out what I should be doing with the SDK. So there is only a tiny bit of SDK work, some python, my mapmod (in my signature), and a whole lot of disorganized artwork and conceptual information. It's not really in a deliverable form right now, but if you would like artwork feel free to ask. If you want all the artwork, well, at some point I plan on organizing it and making it available, I just need to find the time/priority, lack of time has been my number one setback (aside from lack of C++ ability)
My hope is to get a very small amount of simple code to work, the base for my mod, and hopefully be far enough along for a team and forum. Maybe then I can put the mod on sourceforge or something for team members to download and work on. I hope to pick up steam over the summer.
It has made some conceptual strides. For example, it is based on the RFC idea, yet you can choose any civ and jump right in (no waiting). This is actually not hard to do. However all civs and most units/buildings have to be finished before doing this.
Something that is hard is that I believe that if places are left out, then it is not historic, since history is the result of every state etc. interacting. So basically I have to represent everything (including a few hundred playable civs). It will be an interesting challenge (not to mention a lot of work) because there is so much we don't know in places/times prior to colonization, islam, etc. For example, there were supposedly a lot of advanced states (ie countries) in the forests of West Africa during 600-1100 A.D, and we don't know any of them. And I must figure out how to make the game work with tribes, chiefdoms, etc.
Looking at your mod, yours is an expansion, mine is kind of the opposite philosophy (ie I'm actually (groan) not a fan of civ4 really, in that I don't often play it, so my goal is to fundamentally change it). Still, played it a lot back in the day. Civ4 makes a good base game though for a mod- not many history games qualify, because they are too bland/restricted (EU3) or the graphics/code are too hard. One thing I liked about your mod because I want to emphasize it in my mod is detailed, appropriate AI personality. Everything a leader says, and of course the AI, will be properly thought out. (No more weird comments from leaders! Instead, very intelligent/appropriate ones based on their historical situation) The other is that barbarian civs can spawn into new empires. This has many good uses. It could be used for civs such as the Vandals, and of course can be used to make nationalistic rebels like in EU3 (rebels that spawn their own country).
I hope that answers your questions, it sort of turned into a rant
Oh, and your leaderheads are great
Kevin
resources:
Spoiler :
I'd love to see it when you've done that and organized it!
@The Capo:
Thanks and sure. I will keep an eye on your mod and if I can help you know I'll try
In response to your PM, WHM is basically supposed to be a historical (as opposed to broad market) mod where you can jump in at any point in history and experience it. I want the mod to some day be something I can invest my knowledge of history into, and make that into something liveable. Unfortunately not a whole lot has been done considering the long time it's been around. My old computer could not handle it, and only recently have I figured out what I should be doing with the SDK. So there is only a tiny bit of SDK work, some python, my mapmod (in my signature), and a whole lot of disorganized artwork and conceptual information. It's not really in a deliverable form right now, but if you would like artwork feel free to ask. If you want all the artwork, well, at some point I plan on organizing it and making it available, I just need to find the time/priority, lack of time has been my number one setback (aside from lack of C++ ability)
My hope is to get a very small amount of simple code to work, the base for my mod, and hopefully be far enough along for a team and forum. Maybe then I can put the mod on sourceforge or something for team members to download and work on. I hope to pick up steam over the summer.
It has made some conceptual strides. For example, it is based on the RFC idea, yet you can choose any civ and jump right in (no waiting). This is actually not hard to do. However all civs and most units/buildings have to be finished before doing this.
Something that is hard is that I believe that if places are left out, then it is not historic, since history is the result of every state etc. interacting. So basically I have to represent everything (including a few hundred playable civs). It will be an interesting challenge (not to mention a lot of work) because there is so much we don't know in places/times prior to colonization, islam, etc. For example, there were supposedly a lot of advanced states (ie countries) in the forests of West Africa during 600-1100 A.D, and we don't know any of them. And I must figure out how to make the game work with tribes, chiefdoms, etc.
Looking at your mod, yours is an expansion, mine is kind of the opposite philosophy (ie I'm actually (groan) not a fan of civ4 really, in that I don't often play it, so my goal is to fundamentally change it). Still, played it a lot back in the day. Civ4 makes a good base game though for a mod- not many history games qualify, because they are too bland/restricted (EU3) or the graphics/code are too hard. One thing I liked about your mod because I want to emphasize it in my mod is detailed, appropriate AI personality. Everything a leader says, and of course the AI, will be properly thought out. (No more weird comments from leaders! Instead, very intelligent/appropriate ones based on their historical situation) The other is that barbarian civs can spawn into new empires. This has many good uses. It could be used for civs such as the Vandals, and of course can be used to make nationalistic rebels like in EU3 (rebels that spawn their own country).
I hope that answers your questions, it sort of turned into a rant
Oh, and your leaderheads are great
Kevin
The Capo
godless Heathen
So could get a link to download what you have so far? I can send you any graphics you need, I do more than leaderheads.
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
Alright. There will be a TON of art from other mods mixed in but not used; likewise there is some python that shouldn't be there. I can't clean any of it up. There is no SDK for me to show for at this point. The other half of the little that has been done so far is my mapmod. They will be combined once that is done in the coming couple weeks. The folder I will upload to mediafire is about 1Gb. I think it is the most recent test folder
Also while you're here, I was wondering, since you publish your unit art, how do you make civ4-style unit art buttons (the art not the border/file)? In my mind I doubt people draw them from scratch or use random images... I've always wondered how people go about doing that
I will PM the link soon
thanks!
EDIT: to anyone who wants me to release onto C2C meso/maya/native/andes unit graphics, it will have to wait until a few minor glitches are fixed, all the buttons are done (haven't started them), and everything gets organized. Plus, other important things to do too!
Also while you're here, I was wondering, since you publish your unit art, how do you make civ4-style unit art buttons (the art not the border/file)? In my mind I doubt people draw them from scratch or use random images... I've always wondered how people go about doing that
I will PM the link soon
thanks!
EDIT: to anyone who wants me to release onto C2C meso/maya/native/andes unit graphics, it will have to wait until a few minor glitches are fixed, all the buttons are done (haven't started them), and everything gets organized. Plus, other important things to do too!
@Kevin
Are you talking about the button like this one?
If that is the case, the button files are located in
C:\...\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Gold\Beyond the Sword\Mods\[Your mod name]\Assets\Art\Interface\Buttons
If there isn't any there, you can go to
C:\...\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Gold\Beyond the Sword\Assets\Art\Interface\Buttons
and pick out a few. You can then remake them to your liking.
Then you can pin point your unit to the appropriate button by go to Civ4ArtDefines_Unit.xml
within each unit there is a line like
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Lion.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Atlas.dds,6,5</Button>
You can then change it to
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Lion.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/[Your custom button file].dds,x,y</Button>
where x and y is the position of the appropriate button. I think x is the colmn and y is the row, but I might be wrong, it's been a while.
Hope this help =)
Are you talking about the button like this one?
If that is the case, the button files are located in
C:\...\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Gold\Beyond the Sword\Mods\[Your mod name]\Assets\Art\Interface\Buttons
If there isn't any there, you can go to
C:\...\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Gold\Beyond the Sword\Assets\Art\Interface\Buttons
and pick out a few. You can then remake them to your liking.
Then you can pin point your unit to the appropriate button by go to Civ4ArtDefines_Unit.xml
within each unit there is a line like
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Lion.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Atlas.dds,6,5</Button>
You can then change it to
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Lion.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/[Your custom button file].dds,x,y</Button>
where x and y is the position of the appropriate button. I think x is the colmn and y is the row, but I might be wrong, it's been a while.
Hope this help =)
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
@allypower: yeah, those buttons. I know how to use and make the files, what I'm asking is how he does the artwork for the buttons of his custom units. IE whether he draws the images from scratch, edits internet images, or something else. I always wondered if there was a way to take a picture of the unit, and edit/use that. Obviously I want it to match the style of the main civ4 unit button artwork as much as possible
EviltheMonkey
One Primate Think Tank
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2006
- Messages
- 85
Thanks for the list Kevin, I think I can break it down into about eight or nine groups for resource dependant techs. Based on what you said long ago about restricting certain resources to particular civs and linking them to techs, I've come up with a system of techs that can be researched only if you have knowledge of the resource (basically a path prereq).
The reason for grouping the resources is mainly to prevent duplication in the tech tree, although I think it might be historical to a degree, ie. if your culture has developed a selective breeding program for Pigs and then acquires Cows you can transfer much of that knowledge over to the new animal rather quickly.
Of course nothing stops you from using the knowledge tech as a prereq for multiple paths so Horses and Cows (Oxen) can both lead to technologies like the plow and drawing wagons as well as the obvious paths for cavalry and livestock respectively.
It might make more sense if you see it. I'll attach a preview of what I'm doing with Domestication. I hope that clears it up, its all a bit in the air at the moment
The reason for grouping the resources is mainly to prevent duplication in the tech tree, although I think it might be historical to a degree, ie. if your culture has developed a selective breeding program for Pigs and then acquires Cows you can transfer much of that knowledge over to the new animal rather quickly.
Of course nothing stops you from using the knowledge tech as a prereq for multiple paths so Horses and Cows (Oxen) can both lead to technologies like the plow and drawing wagons as well as the obvious paths for cavalry and livestock respectively.
It might make more sense if you see it. I'll attach a preview of what I'm doing with Domestication. I hope that clears it up, its all a bit in the air at the moment
Attachments
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
The grouping sounds good
It makes perfect sense. Thanks!
It makes perfect sense. Thanks!
BeardedWonder
Chieftain
Wow! Glad to see this project is still going! After 4 years in dev this must be a real labour of love.
After CIV5
.... i hope to to be able to play this at some point!
KUTGW!
After 4 years in dev this must be a real labour of love.After CIV5
.... i hope to to be able to play this at some point! KUTGW!
civ editor11
Ruler
I can help with some stuff if you like.
I cant really do any graphic work but I know how to code in C++/Python. I can do some 2d stuff but I am horrible at 3d. and of course I can also add things into xml
Also I see that your developing a giant world map to go with this and I was wondering if that map would be able to work without any mods installed or does it depend on your mod?
Great job on all you've done so far I'd be glad to help if I could. One note though my time schedule sometimes gets crazy because of school so I may be unable to work for a couple days sometimes
I cant really do any graphic work but I know how to code in C++/Python. I can do some 2d stuff but I am horrible at 3d. and of course I can also add things into xml
Also I see that your developing a giant world map to go with this and I was wondering if that map would be able to work without any mods installed or does it depend on your mod?
Great job on all you've done so far I'd be glad to help if I could. One note though my time schedule sometimes gets crazy because of school so I may be unable to work for a couple days sometimes
kevinman4404
Lightning Warrior
The map portion of this mod, World History Map, has now been released for testing, improvement, etc. Feel free to download and try it out from the front page or post #572 of the map thread (link in my signature).
I will start to work on this soon! Civeditor has kindly agreed to help with C++, the first thing I need to do is figure out what needs to be done.
Kevin
I will start to work on this soon! Civeditor has kindly agreed to help with C++, the first thing I need to do is figure out what needs to be done.
Kevin
