World record for diplo win

[walletta]

OK, I know I'm going to encounter some seriously wacky ideas with this one. I am trying for the fastest possible diplo win on a tiny continental map playing the Germans against England, America and the Byzantines. I reload the same map time and time again. This one has 5 luxes on my continent, all the resources except oil which you don't need because the game is over before tanks or planes come into play.

Yesterday, I made it almost all the way through the Industrial Era before the rest had got out of the Middle Ages. Of course, for best results I need to get Fission as my free tech and have a pre-build on the go so I can knock out the UN at once, so that part is random. So far, I have managed it by about 1560, scoring just over 4,000 points. I should say this is emperor level.

Basic idea is to build libraries, universities, Copernicus and Newton ASAP, devote all resources to science after wiping the English off the map to ensure they don't interfere. America and Byzantium have their own continent and, again, cannot get heavily involved by the time the game ends and exist only to be buttered up for their votes. Except for literature, I research only essential techs and have my outer towns producing either workers or science for the most part. Of course, there is a maximum speed of four turns per tech but I guess the idea is to hit that as early as possible and hit it again in the Industrial Era. There is ivory in easy reach so I have been building the Statue and blitzing England off the land mass more or less as soon as I have half a dozen of the critters.

So, tips and tricks please - or tales of insanely fast precedents. The more ridiculous and outlandish the better. If anyone wants to compete I can try to upload the save, although I have found that a challenge in the past.

 

[justanick]

If you play with huts russia is better than germany. Else sumer or greece will be better for reaching 4 turns per tech ASAP.

If you manage to implement AI research into your strategy you can severely undercut the 4 turns per tech.

So take russia to enter the medieval age around 2500 BC, gift all techs to AI and do reserach yourself what AI will not. Then you can trade in what AI does research. As AI is very poor in using workers help them out to make the proper choice about irrigation or mining. The therefore needed RoP will also improve relations. If you are that friendly you truely deserve the UN Victory.

 

[walletta]

If you play with huts russia is better than germany. Else sumer or greece will be better for reaching 4 turns per tech ASAP.

If you manage to implement AI research into your strategy you can severely undercut the 4 turns per tech.

So take russia to enter the medieval age around 2500 BC, gift all techs to AI and do reserach yourself what AI will not. Then you can trade in what AI does research. As AI is very poor in using workers help them out to make the proper choice about irrigation or mining. The therefore needed RoP will also improve relations. If you are that friendly you truely deserve the UN Victory.

Brilliant. Just what I was talking about. You were probably some kind of Dr Strangelove character in a previous life, Justanick.

 

[tjs282]

So, tips and tricks please - or tales of insanely fast precedents. The more ridiculous and outlandish the better. If anyone wants to compete I can try to upload the save, although I have found that a challenge in the past.

Dunno if it counts, but several of us went for Diplo in the Korean COTM last month (Standard, Regents, seriously customised Continents map). My UN-win, in 1410 AD, was the slowest of the 4 -- i.e. pathetic compared to the best date of 560 AD...

I could possibly have got it 11T earlier if I'd held a vote immediately when I built the UN, but I couldn't remember what the AICivs' attitudes were when it happened, so wasn't confident (enough) that I'd win. Not that that would have changed the overall result -- the clear winners (Drazek and TemplarX) made early overseas contacts by spamming out suicide-Galleys, and/or building GLight and/or Magellan, so they could start trading for Luxes/ Resources/ Techs a lot earlier than I did: I'd stopped looking for an early sea route after losing 5-6 ships without even spotting Sea-tiles on the other side; and even after I got Astro/Caravels, I still didn't make it across -- I finally contacted the other continent with my first Galleon, by which time I was pretty much in the Industrial, having researched the entire Ancient- and Mid-Age tech-trees unassisted (and I was still way ahead of all the AICivs!).

Admittedly, I also fiddled around building Wonders I didn't really need (but it was so much fun being able to build them myself after playing at Emp/DG!), and not really concentrating on filling/ clearing my continent (which I had all to myself) quickly enough. If I'd done that more efficiently, I would also have got teched-up quicker. I won the Republic beeline, and after that I could do 4T per tech in the Ancient- (at SCI%=30-40) and Mid-Age (at SCI%= 60-70), but it slowed down to 6-8T (at SCI%=80-90) in the Industrial, because my Workers (of which I did not have enough) were still occupied with chopping Jungle in my core instead of railing everything.

 

[templar_x]

walletta, what helped me back in my days was to seek competition through the HoF-tables. you will find which dates are possible there, with which civs. you can check the start saves and maps, via the start files. some entries are linked to write-ups. seeking for the fastest date makes lots of things obvious, that you do in your playing style but which do not get you to the VC faster. you will learn to do without that. so if you wanna go there, have your instances of enlightenment - and have fun!
t_x

 

[walletta]

Dunno if it counts, but several of us went for Diplo in the Korean COTM last month (Standard, Regents, seriously customised Continents map). My UN-win, in 1410 AD, was the slowest of the 4 -- i.e. pathetic compared to the best date of 560 AD...

I could possibly have got it 11T earlier if I'd held a vote immediately when I built the UN, but I couldn't remember what the AICivs' attitudes were when it happened, so wasn't confident (enough) that I'd win. Not that that would have changed the overall result -- the clear winners (Drazek and TemplarX) made early overseas contacts by spamming out suicide-Galleys, and/or building GLight and/or Magellan, so they could start trading for Luxes/ Resources/ Techs a lot earlier than I did: I'd stopped looking for an early sea route after losing 5-6 ships without even spotting Sea-tiles on the other side; and even after I got Astro/Caravels, I still didn't make it across -- I finally contacted the other continent with my first Galleon, by which time I was pretty much in the Industrial, having researched the entire Ancient- and Mid-Age tech-trees unassisted (and I was still way ahead of all the AICivs!).

Admittedly, I also fiddled around building Wonders I didn't really need (but it was so much fun being able to build them myself after playing at Emp/DG!), and not really concentrating on filling/ clearing my continent (which I had all to myself) quickly enough. If I'd done that more efficiently, I would also have got teched-up quicker. I won the Republic beeline, and after that I could do 4T per tech in the Ancient- (at SCI%=30-40) and Mid-Age (at SCI%= 60-70), but it slowed down to 6-8T (at SCI%=80-90) in the Industrial, because my Workers (of which I did not have enough) were still occupied with chopping Jungle in my core instead of railing everything.

That certainly does count! 560AD WTH!

 

[walletta]

walletta, what helped me back in my days was to seek competition through the HoF-tables. you will find which dates are possible there, with which civs. you can check the start saves and maps, via the start files. some entries are linked to write-ups. seeking for the fastest date makes lots of things obvious, that you do in your playing style but which do not get you to the VC faster. you will learn to do without that. so if you wanna go there, have your instances of enlightenment - and have fun!
t_x

Know what, templar_x? I find I like to play the game sort of naturally and that these record breaking things are not for me. I know by starting this thread I implied otherwise but what I really like is other folks' stories of counter-intuitive approaches to the game, like Justanick's suggestion of just giving techs away to other civs so they can do your research for you. Every fibre of my being would prevent me doing such a thing, but I really like the ingenuity behind the idea. It's similar to the funnel of doom and other inspired and crazy things people have thought up (or planting and then clearing forests multiple times - I know that one is not allowed anymore). I play chess in exactly the same way - liking the aesthetics and eschewing 'ugly' moves, good or not.

 

[templar_x]

no, i would not have guessed that from your initial post

so you want the crazy ideas only for that very specific condition and VC? interesting. not sure if this will become a thriving discussion.

t_x

 

[tjs282]

Basic idea is to build libraries, universities, Copernicus and Newton ASAP, devote all resources to science after wiping the English off the map to ensure they don't interfere

What about the Colossus? If you're starting as the Germans, and can found a decent 1st-ring coastal town (ideally on a river) as your 'super-science town', the Colossal +1CPT per tile will make a big difference to that town's BPT-output, and your overall BPT-output, for the next 3 ages (until you get Flight -- and if you then get Fission as your freebie, and can build the UN and win the vote, you won't need to do any Modern-Age research anyway).

Spoiler :

Once you've founded the science-town, you'll build nothing but improvements in it (get Luxes hooked ASAP, so you don't need mil-pol). Start building Colossus immediately, then add a CH (if needed; if not, then maybe Axes/Curraghs), Lib (+50% BPT), Harbour (half-price because MIL) and Market (for Lux-multiplication) as you get CoL, Lit, Mapmaking and Currency, respectively. With freshwater you won't need a Duct; without freshwater, research/trade for Construction before Currency. Once you hit the Mid-Age, use a Colosseum as a Uni-prebuild (+50% BPT) while you beeline to Edu, (pre)build CopsObs while you research Astro (+100% BPT). Then (pre)build Newtons if feasible (+100% BPT).

So you'll need to maximise SPT (with 2-3FPT) under Despot, then once you go to Republic, MM for max FPT (irrigate BGrass?) to get it up to Pop6 ASAP, then maximise SPT (at 0FPT) again. Once you reach Pop7, grow the town by adding Workers (who'll then feed themselves by going fishing). At Pop12, under Republic, assuming all tiles are roaded and coastal tiles are worked, with all improvements/Wonders listed above, at SCI%=100

• Without Colossus you make at least 12*2CPT, plus 3CPT from the city = 27 CPT => 108 BPT
• With Colossus, you make at least 12*3 CPT, plus 4(?)CPT from the city = 40 CPT => 160 BPT

...and both BPT-totals would be even higher with with commerce-bonus Resources in the BFC, and/or after it's fully railed. All needed buildings can be built by disband-shields (you could use the ACavs, once you don't need them anymore) and/or cash-rushed in between the Colossus and Cops-builds, and/or built using GA-shields.

On which subject... as the Germans, building SoZ (MIL) + Newtons (SCI) will get you a Wonder-GA, but very late, since ToG will likely be one of the last 3 techs you collect. So after doing the slingshot, you might want to consider also (pre)building MoM (or GLib, but it's twice the price) as your SCI-Wonder. If you have a monopoly on Ivory, you can safely hold off on (pre)building SoZ until you're ready to trigger your GA, in the late Ancient or early Mid-Age, which you can then use to build your Ducts and Unis. If you're using GA-shields, you wouldn't need to disband the ACavs.

 

[walletta]

no, i would not have guessed that from your initial post

so you want the crazy ideas only for that very specific condition and VC? interesting. not sure if this will become a thriving discussion.

t_x

Yes, sorry about that. I'm a complete fraud. Deal with it!

 

[walletta]

What about the Colossus? If you're starting as the Germans, and can found a decent 1st-ring coastal town (ideally on a river) as your 'super-science town', the Colossal +1CPT per tile will make a big difference to that town's BPT-output, and your overall BPT-output, for the next 3 ages (until you get Flight -- and if you then get Fission as your freebie, and can build the UN and win the vote, you won't need to do any Modern-Age research anyway).

Spoiler :

Once you've founded the science-town, you'll build nothing but improvements in it (get Luxes hooked ASAP, so you don't need mil-pol). Start building Colossus immediately, then add a CH (if needed; if not, then maybe Axes/Curraghs), Lib (+50% BPT), Harbour (half-price because MIL) and Market (for Lux-multiplication) as you get CoL, Lit, Mapmaking and Currency, respectively. With freshwater you won't need a Duct; without freshwater, research/trade for Construction before Currency. Once you hit the Mid-Age, use a Colosseum as a Uni-prebuild (+50% BPT) while you beeline to Edu, (pre)build CopsObs while you research Astro (+100% BPT). Then (pre)build Newtons if feasible (+100% BPT).

So you'll need to maximise SPT (with 2-3FPT) under Despot, then once you go to Republic, MM for max FPT (irrigate BGrass?) to get it up to Pop6 ASAP, then maximise SPT (at 0FPT) again. Once you reach Pop7, grow the town by adding Workers (who'll then feed themselves by going fishing). At Pop12, under Republic, assuming all tiles are roaded and coastal tiles are worked, with all improvements/Wonders listed above, at SCI%=100

• Without Colossus you make at least 12*2CPT, plus 3CPT from the city = 27 CPT => 108 BPT
• With Colossus, you make at least 12*3 CPT, plus 4(?)CPT from the city = 40 CPT => 160 BPT

...and both BPT-totals would be even higher with with commerce-bonus Resources in the BFC, and/or after it's fully railed. All needed buildings can be built by disband-shields (you could use the ACavs, once you don't need them anymore) and/or cash-rushed in between the Colossus and Cops-builds, and/or built using GA-shields.

On which subject... as the Germans, building SoZ (MIL) + Newtons (SCI) will get you a Wonder-GA, but very late, since ToG will likely be one of the last 3 techs you collect. So after doing the slingshot, you might want to consider also (pre)building MoM (or GLib, but it's twice the price) as your SCI-Wonder. If you have a monopoly on Ivory, you can safely hold off on (pre)building SoZ until you're ready to trigger your GA, in the late Ancient or early Mid-Age, which you can then use to build your Ducts and Unis. If you're using GA-shields, you wouldn't need to disband the ACavs.

Well, in my last game I got a GSL very early (with the discovery of writing or some such) and used it to knock out the Colossus in exactly the type of city you mention - coastal on a river. My second city in fact. But what I didn't do was put Newton or Copernicus there. Maybe I shoulda. Courthouse, Harbor, all that stuff too. It was humming city, that's for sure.