World Wonders Poll

[steveg700]

Isn't Disney World becoming more of a National wonder with parks in LA, Orlando, Tokyo, Paris, Hong Kong, Shanghai, and I heard rumors about planned parks in Sydney (Australia) and Antalya (Turkey). There are even less substantiated rumors about parks in Russia, Dubai (UAE), South Africa and South America. It's becoming less and less wondrous, if you even ever could name it that anyway.

For the most part, I feel safe in saying that when someone mentions either Disneyland or Disneyworld, other parties don't reflexively ask which one you're talking about--"oh, South Africa or Hong Kong?" Everybody envisions the same place.

If you have people traveling from all over the world to get somewhere, and when they get there all but the most jaded souls go wide-eyed at the spectacle of it all, you've probably satisfied some major criteria for being considered a modern wonder.

How many tourists does a research station at the South Pole attract?

 

[lp_04]

Santa Maria da Vitória or Monastery of Batalha - Portugal (national pantheon of the second dynasty - classic historical golden age). May be used for increase loyalty pressure or something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batalha_Monastery

 

[pgm123]

That's deliberately there for beginners. It's bad game design to introduce someone to tons of new concepts and systems at the same time. By having no choice for civics at the time, you allow the player to ignore it for ~15 turns or so. Which means they're not overwhelmed at the start, and they have new things to do drip fed to them. Same reason that you can't get a pantheon earlier than that, and why religions/trade routes come even later.

That's a fair point. But we're on an expansion now. Techs start with multiple options.

 

[durfal]

For the most part, I feel safe in saying that when someone mentions either Disneyland or Disneyworld, other parties don't reflexively ask which one you're talking about--"oh, South Africa or Hong Kong?" Everybody envisions the same place.

If you have people traveling from all over the world to get somewhere, and when they get there all but the most jaded souls go wide-eyed at the spectacle of it all, you've probably satisfied some major criteria for being considered a modern wonder.
How many tourists does a research station at the South Pole attract?

Could be but it also depend on where you live, if anybody here (the Netherlands) for example says they've been to Disneyland, everybody will presume it's been to the one in Paris, unless you explicitly say it is the one in the US or elsewhere, and small kids don't know any better then the one in Paris anyway.
It even meant that when I was in Orlando I went to Epcot first, I still went to Disney World and some other parks the days after though, even after being to the ones in Anaheim and Paris before, just because I like theme parks . Even been to the ones in Tokyo and Hong Kong later during my travels around the world . And they really are all almost the same no matter which one you go too.

But most countries (or even states) in the world have there own "Famous" Theme/Amusement Park(s), which everyone knows at least locally, where you go with the family. So a Modern Age (neutral 1 per civ) "Amusement Park" in game could be OK.
Though the new Water Park even looks like a Ocean World amusement park with a Ferris Wheel, Aquarium and Aquatic Center, it even got Sea Lions in there . And the Entertainment Center looks more like a Circus, before the Stadium is build.
So Disney has maybe the best known commercial "Brand" name for amusement parks, it doesn't mean to me that they are a world wonder.

Not to mention Las Vegas which is more an insane real civ city with a lot of (fake) world wonders build in it. I still enjoyed the place a lot though but nah, not a world wonder to me either.
.

 

[Katakanja]

Las Vegas which is more an insane real civ city with a lot of (fake) world wonders build in it

There's a fun idea - allow civs in the late game to build knock-off replicas of ancient wonders. They don't give you the bonus associated with the real thing, but siphon tourism from the original based on the lifetime amount that it has generated over the course of the game

 

[steveg700]

So Disney has maybe the best known commercial "Brand" name for amusement parks, it doesn't mean to me that they are a world wonder.

Not to mention Las Vegas which is more an insane real civ city with a lot of (fake) world wonders build in it. I still enjoyed the place a lot though but nah, not a world wonder to me either.
.

Disney set the tone. Everyone else is cribbing their notes. The Vegas Strip? It's an entertainment mecca built in a no-man's land. A wondrous accomplishment indeed, in a similar spirit as Petra. As with Disney, when you see other such meccas around the world, that's Vegas's influence.

Don't fall into the trap of rejecting their historical significance on their very basis of their impact today (that they inspired imitators around the world). Moreover, there's an even more basic quality about them: when these came on the scene, people marveled at them. Which begs the question of what else makes something quality as a modern wonder if those are shrug-inducing qualities.

It's a jaded world where it's easy to take the wondrous for granted. People feel ho-hum about the Statue of Liberty, and their memories consist mostly of getting sore feet walking up an endless stairs. I found the Uffizi to be something of a run-down dump badly in need of LED lighting and a fresh coast of paint.

There's a fun idea - allow civs in the late game to build knock-off replicas of ancient wonders. They don't give you the bonus associated with the real thing, but siphon tourism from the original based on the lifetime amount that it has generated over the course of the game

That would be a fun idea for Vegas Strip. You get tourism and GPT for every wonder built in the game, and the design actually shows some miniature wonders from the current game.

 

[Vahnstad]

Pff, all those American wonders

And like seriously, McDonalds.

Yeah it's a wonder that 35 to 40% of all Americans are obese? And if McDonalds is a wonder, what about EA, Ikea, PizzaHut, Quick, Samsung, Nokia, Apple, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Fiat, Tesla, Coca Cola, DIsney, Fox and name it... . They can always add something as corporations and improve the economic system of the game late-game, enchance it, make it more complicated, but that will never happen, since they seem to simplify things greatly in this game.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

Counter point:

Yeah, yeah pretty monkey...

IMO its not art unless there's a giant wang involved.

 

[Ondolindë]

Would love to see both of these from the Tiawanaku ruins:

La Puerta del Sol or The Sun Gate (it would be wonderful if the animation had the sun pierce its opening just like it does on the winter solstice, for example.

Templo de Kalasasaya

 

[God of Kings]

Could be but it also depend on where you live, if anybody here (the Netherlands) for example says they've been to Disneyland, everybody will presume it's been to the one in Paris, unless you explicitly say it is the one in the US or elsewhere, and small kids don't know any better then the one in Paris anyway.
It even meant that when I was in Orlando I went to Epcot first, I still went to Disney World and some other parks the days after though, even after being to the ones in Anaheim and Paris before, just because I like theme parks . Even been to the ones in Tokyo and Hong Kong later during my travels around the world . And they really are all almost the same no matter which one you go too.

But most countries (or even states) in the world have there own "Famous" Theme/Amusement Park(s), which everyone knows at least locally, where you go with the family. So a Modern Age (neutral 1 per civ) "Amusement Park" in game could be OK.
Though the new Water Park even looks like a Ocean World amusement park with a Ferris Wheel, Aquarium and Aquatic Center, it even got Sea Lions in there . And the Entertainment Center looks more like a Circus, before the Stadium is build.
So Disney has maybe the best known commercial "Brand" name for amusement parks, it doesn't mean to me that they are a world wonder.

Not to mention Las Vegas which is more an insane real civ city with a lot of (fake) world wonders build in it. I still enjoyed the place a lot though but nah, not a world wonder to me either.
.

Not far from where you live is the Efteling, one of the most visited independent theme parks in Europe. It's rumoured that Disney himself visited it while looking for inspirations for the Disneyland in Anaheim.

Six Flags and Cedar Fair are two major theme park chains in North America (Six Flags over Texas and Cedar Point are the flagship parks (no points for guessing which chain owns which)); both even have theme parks in Canada: La Ronde in Montreal (Six Flags) and Canada's Wonderland just north of Toronto (Cedar Fair), the latter being among the most attended seasonal theme parks in the world (though behind Efteling).

 

[steveg700]

Pff, all those American wonders.

Yes, America could certainly offer its fair share to the modern wonder department. Had a good run for a while there.

Yeah it's a wonder that 35 to 40% of all Americans are obese? And if McDonalds is a wonder, what about EA, Ikea, PizzaHut, Quick, Samsung, Nokia, Apple, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Fiat, Tesla, Coca Cola, DIsney, Fox and name it... . They can always add something as corporations and improve the economic system of the game late-game, enchance it, make it more complicated, but that will never happen, since they seem to simplify things greatly in this game.

Slow down. Your nation-bashing and your dev-bashing are running together. One diatribe at a time.

 

[Disgustipated]

Actually I wouldn't mind seeing a return of corporations. But yeah McDonald's as a wonder is silly. Same with Disney. Not like my awesome suggestion of Hoover Dam, which was good enough to be in Civ2 dammit. I think it was in Civ3 as well.

 

[Meluhhan]

After the points you've made, I think that Machu Picchu is the only wonder that I would say is legitimately on a mountain top. Even Neuschwanstein from V is more on a hill. Putting it on a mountain was a bit disingenuous.

What about Cristo Redentor?

 

[halfhalfharp]

I voted for most non-European, non-Greek Wonders. I do wish I'd voted for Notre Dame because the French have a Wonder-building bonus and probably could use more wonders from that era. I voted Other to add the Great Canal. Qin definitely needs more Wonders.

It is good to add more chinese wonders. But the Great Canal...? I don't oppose to the idea that it was a great construction. But what should it look like... its just a canal lol? and it stretches across the entire nation so it wont make sense to exist as a 1 tile wonder. I would propose other wonders that exist as a single building or complex.

p.s. I want Notre Dame too.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I think there are enough wonders out there available for the designers that time has come for most civs to own one 1 wonder, meaning, only a specific civ can build that wonder. These I'd call: National Wonders. To qualify as a National Wonder the structure would have to been in fact constructed by that civilization at some point in time.

On top of the National Wonders, there should be 7 Great Wonders per every Era available to all to build. Giving us 56 Great Wonders to build in the game (plus the unique, national wonders - 1 per civ)

Actually some Civ IV mods already do this, like History Rewritten: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/about-history-rewritten.431470/
There are wonders for all civs, including Kongo, Hittites, Tibet, Iroquois, Anasazi, etc.
(btw, I find the civ roster great in that mod, worth to check it out)
Hopefully it will also make it into V / VI, like so many things from great Civ IV mods.

 

[Lord Lakely]

The Uffington White Horse is a really cool early wonder choice, I think

Requires Animal Husbandry, must be built on a hill next to a pasture, extra faith and production from pastures and functions as a Natural Wonder for the rest of the game.

 

[chronoturner]

The Atomium, voted by CNN as Europe's weirdest building in 2013, might make a good Wonder. It is unique and distinctive in shape, and recognizable to anybody who knows it. I'm not sure if it's been proposed in this thread before, but I am throwing it in the ring as the wonder I'd like to see the most.

No, I am not biased, as a Belgian.

 

[steveg700]

It is good to add more chinese wonders. But the Great Canal...? I don't oppose to the idea that it was a great construction. But what should it look like... its just a canal lol? and it stretches across the entire nation so it wont make sense to exist as a 1 tile wonder. I would propose other wonders that exist as a single building or complex.

Well, wonders don't have to make a great deal of sense (many don't) but how many tiles would all of Panama really occupy on a True Start map anyway?

But I would prefer this simply be an industrial-era builder ability (military engineer would work fine too). Or even rolled into Teddy's (none-too-impressive) UA.