Worst Unique Ability?

[Furyofposeidon]

Manifest Destiny is great, actually. The +1 sight means a lot for exploration, and lets me grab all the ruins quickly.

 

[Furyofposeidon]

Thanks for the Feedback! I nominate Barbary Corsairs the worst Unique Ability!

 

[comatosedragon]

Yeah, no surprise here. Absolutely the worst is Barbary Corsairs.

 

[Nirosi]

Playing with Greece or Siam and not using CSs is a bit silly. Both UAs are very good, you just need to use them. I actually think Siam's UA is among the very best, far away from being among the worst. City States are already powerful enough as it is.

My vote goes for Trade Caravan. I like playing the Arabs thanks to their UB, but this UA is practically worthless. The amount of gold is just too small compared to other gold-giving UAs like Songhai or Spain.

Trade caravans is one of the strongest abilities!
The worst is Berberian Corsairs.

 

[Alziel]

I'm currently playing a game as the Ottomans on a Continents Plus map and I have to say that Barbary Corsairs has been a fantastic boon for me (this is Emporer level).

I quickly built up a huge early navy of Triremes and Galleys (from one initial Trireme that I built myself). This navy kept building exponentially and my exploration of the map sped up as a result. I had quickly met all other civs before the BC era was over and so had many potential trade partners.

Now my Janissaries and Sipahi are here and I am on the warpath against Greece, I am annihilating them as I storm through all their coastal cities (and their island city state allies) with my fleet of 12 Frigates in support (heavily promoted by now, I might add). Once the coastal cities fall, my Janissary armies simply move inlands to take the interior cities whilst my navy sails on up the coast to bombard the remaining seaside resorts.

So I wouldn't say that Barbary Corsairs is a useless UA at all - in my current game it has proved to be excellent!

I'll have a think about what I believe to be the UA that needs a boost and come back later.

Cheers

 

[tomaalimosh]

I'm currently playing a game as the Ottomans on a Continents Plus map and I have to say that Barbary Corsairs has been a fantastic boon for me (this is Emporer level).

I quickly built up a huge early navy of Triremes and Galleys (from one initial Trireme that I built myself). This navy kept building exponentially and my exploration of the map sped up as a result. I had quickly met all other civs before the BC era was over and so had many potential trade partners.

Now my Janissaries and Sipahi are here and I am on the warpath against Greece, I am annihilating them as I storm through all their coastal cities (and their island city state allies) with my fleet of 12 Frigates in support (heavily promoted by now, I might add). Once the coastal cities fall, my Janissary armies simply move inlands to take the interior cities whilst my navy sails on up the coast to bombard the remaining seaside resorts.

So I wouldn't say that Barbary Corsairs is a useless UA at all - in my current game it has proved to be excellent!

I'll have a think about what I believe to be the UA that needs a boost and come back later.

Cheers

I agree. It can be a great situational ability. You get a huge fleet with only one ship built, and you effectively rule the seas. This is game-changing on archipelago maps. Its better than furror teutonics is on land (you can actually farm one barbarian camp for a lot of ships).

 

[ShahJahanII]

You're forgetting the triple pillage part. You'd be surprised at the usefulness of even the embarkation part for amphib invasions.

As proved by w a i n y's own Songhai LP, pillaging barb encampments for triple gold really helps on a Mandekalu Cavalry rush, when you might have to sign RAs, ally CS, and upgrade hordes of horsemen to Mandekalu Cavalry.

 

[That nerdy kid]

Population Growth sucks, why is it -50% unhappy per pop trade for +100% unhappy per city. It would be better if it's -50% and +50% respectively. This will not make the UA imba, but also give India a chance to build a few more cities.

because its doubled unhappiness from cities and halved unhappiness from people

 

[ense7en]

Barbary Corsairs.

I actually just started up a game with them tonight on Archipelago.
I've only run into ONE barb naval unit, and they converted to me.

But really, it's utter crap as far as i can tell, unless maybe with raging barbs on?

 

[grandad1982]

Barbary Corsairs.

The one time I tried to exploit it it worked out badly for me. I captured about 6 units and upgraded them to Triremes. I then sent them to help take Romes Coastal capital. He had two archers and a Wall. I had a couple of Swords as well. He sank my fleet very quickly. Naval units are just to rubbish in this game, which is a shame as I love sailing and boats in general. Sort it out Firaxies.

Also I can't belive people have been voting down some of the ones they have! Ancient Regime?! Trade Caravans?! Monument Builders?! Etc etc....

 

[Optional]

You cannot really take cities with early boats, they're too fragile and don't do much damage. But it's a bit unfair towards the trait to put it just against that. If you've converted 6 boats you at least bagged 6 x 25 = 150 gold.

They're hardly worth upgrading, disbanding is just as much an option and bags you a bit more money.

For exploration you'd want to upgrade a galley, the rest perhaps not. You can use them for XP and culture gain against barbs unupgraded, and for defense... that's a bit more difficult to decide.
But talking about defense, they're certainly a help in that aspect. With the Ottomans you should strive to put your first couple of cities coastal, so that they can be defended by your fleet. Taking a couple of hitpoints off advancing units can often be enough to thwart that early rush. You can save on unit building.

There are better traits than Barbary Corsairs, but I don't think it's the worst one by a long shot.

 

[grandad1982]

Hey Optional! Long time no chat!

I do agree that I jumped the gun a bit on using my ships and should have waited till Frigates to go for it.

My main gripe is that naval is just to much fluff really. Out of Sun Never Sets and Corsairs I think Sun is best as it is a good bonus to embarked units as well.

I just can't think of another of the UAs I rate so low. Mongol Terror is pretty rubbish as I never really take out CSs, but then the extra mounted movement is good. Sun Never Sets is pretty weak but as I said I think I prefer it to Corsairs. I don't like Spain's much either though it can be VERY powerful.

Out of interest what did you vote for and why?

On another note what do you think of a possible SG in the new year?

 

[ShahJahanII]

Hey Optional! Long time no chat!

I do agree that I jumped the gun a bit on using my ships and should have waited till Frigates to go for it.

My main gripe is that naval is just to much fluff really. Out of Sun Never Sets and Corsairs I think Sun is best as it is a good bonus to embarked units as well.

I just can't think of another of the UAs I rate so low. Mongol Terror is pretty rubbish as I never really take out CSs, but then the extra mounted movement is good. Sun Never Sets is pretty weak but as I said I think I prefer it to Corsairs. I don't like Spain's much either though it can be VERY powerful.

Out of interest what did you vote for and why?

On another note what do you think of a possible SG in the new year?

You cannot really take cities with early boats, they're too fragile and don't do much damage. But it's a bit unfair towards the trait to put it just against that. If you've converted 6 boats you at least bagged 6 x 25 = 150 gold.

They're hardly worth upgrading, disbanding is just as much an option and bags you a bit more money.

For exploration you'd want to upgrade a galley, the rest perhaps not. You can use them for XP and culture gain against barbs unupgraded, and for defense... that's a bit more difficult to decide.
But talking about defense, they're certainly a help in that aspect. With the Ottomans you should strive to put your first couple of cities coastal, so that they can be defended by your fleet. Taking a couple of hitpoints off advancing units can often be enough to thwart that early rush. You can save on unit building.

There are better traits than Barbary Corsairs, but I don't think it's the worst one by a long shot.

I too think that Barbary Corsairs isn't a bad trait.
I voted for Sun Never Sets, which isn't bad, just not as good as the others.
I just recently played a game with England, I had some gold to spare, but no production to build 6 triremes to upgrade to Ship of the Line before I researched Navigation.
I quickly regretted picking England, I think that instead of building Triremes with England, I could have used that same amount of production to build the Great Lighthouse as the Ottomans and just captured all of my ships.
In that same game, I was able to take Paris (my first capital) by turn 240.
Also, when your fleet starts to get bigger, the -2/3 maintenance cost really helps out.

 

[Optional]

Out of interest what did you vote for and why?

I voted Trade Caravans, didn't have to think long about that. One extra gold per trade route is almost nothing. And oil is very late in the game.
But there are a few more that I find weaker as well.
The Great Warpath; forest tiles in your own territory become roads. You'll regularly shave off a turn of a unit's movement in your home territory, but it's not a big deal. The financial advantage isn't big either, and forest tiles are not taken in by culture early.
I find the Danish trait suspect as well. Coming out of the water you can do a bit extra, but how often will you want to drop your units in the water first? I've hardly played them, though.
Hellenic League; you'll first need to invest quite a bit in those City States, and then slowly you'll see yourself saving some money. But it's not that much money you're saving.

There are also quite a few traits that I can't judge well because I haven't played with the nation enough.

With Barbary Corsairs you'll get a bunch of ships that'll be the worst units you ever had, that is simply true. Frigates are very far away away, if you've converted a lot of barbarian ships you'll need to disband some.
It makes the trait look bad, but the early money is very helpful, and on higher levels, where the AI early rushes are a concern, those extra ships can save you some trouble. Bombard a few oncoming Hoplites and chances are they'll rest to heal instead of marching on. Never mind how weak those galleys are, for defense they can be very helpful in the early game... provided you've put your first cities coastal! The map needs to help a bit. It doesn't need to be a specific map type, it may be a pangaea, but there should be a strong coastal city placement.

Succession Game... Yeah, I think we should start one up, taking a brush and pan with us. The last time I was looking in the SG forum it was all cobwebs!
At least this thread tells us we shouldn't go with the Ottomans, so that's one thing learnt.

 

[grandad1982]

Great Warpath is pretty pony. It would be much better if it worked on all forests.

Trade Caravans isn't so bad. The gold isn't all that and oil does come late but even if you don't intend to use that oil yourself you can make good bit of money selling it to the AI.

Hellenic League can mean you can support an extra CS or 2 as you have more time to accrue the gold to bribe. Pretty good if your focusing on CSs and Patronage.

Maybe if I could vote again Great Warpath would get my vote. I might just need to try to use Corsairs in a different way.

Glad your up for an SG. I've been on a semi-hiatus so it'll be a great way to freshen up the game. I'll PM you in the next week or so if you like. Start thinking about civs etc!

 

[Antarion]

if great warpath would work like andean road for movement it would far too powerful especially in conjunction with the mohawk warrior. just ICS and get some monuments, and noone can enter your forest empire, that's how it works at the moment. if it would also help in offense it it would be to strong.

 

[Optional]

I think civs like Arabia and Iroquois have been getting weak traits on purpose, because they are already so strong otherwise. Arabia's Bazaar is very strong, and the Iroquois' Mohawk is such a weapon; earliest swordsman rush of all - no need to hook up iron first.
With the Mohawk you're going to think about what you can do outside of your empire, not many worries about what others can do inside it.

 

[Morpheas]

Population Growth sucks, why is it -50% unhappy per pop trade for +100% unhappy per city. It would be better if it's -50% and +50% respectively. This will not make the UA imba, but also give India a chance to build a few more cities.

I don't see how that would be an improvement... it's still +50% unhappiness.

Maybe +25% unhappines from number of cities and 75% from citizens would make it a bit more generic. Still, I don't like generic UA's.

By the way. Indian cities outperform normal civs once they reach 7 population, breaking even at 6. As someone else said, the idea is to build 3-5 cities and get 15+ population. Pumping out hammers, gold, and food. I often choose India when I feel like playing defensively while I tech to Riflemen, then mass them and wait for someone to DoW me, and counter attack them. I only play on Prince difficulty (for now) as I just got into Civ5, but India can really make having several high population cities easy and worth it. Unlike other civs where the unhappiness from # of population will be difficult to get past.

 

[Antarion]

problem with india is before theaters you wont get into ICS with their high unhappiness per city.

so ICS is more a question of time in my opinion which makes it impossible for india to go for many small cities early on.

 

[Rex_Mundi]

I think Barbary Corsairs and Sun never Sets got an indirect boost with the December patch, in my latest game the ships were much cheaper to upgrade.