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Worst Unique Unit

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Molybdeus, Dec 18, 2007.

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Which is the worst UU?

  1. Ballista Elephant

    129 vote(s)
    24.2%
  2. Bowman

    17 vote(s)
    3.2%
  3. Camel Archer

    41 vote(s)
    7.7%
  4. Carrack

    10 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Cossack

    5 vote(s)
    0.9%
  6. Dog Soldier

    11 vote(s)
    2.1%
  7. East Indiaman

    30 vote(s)
    5.6%
  8. Fast Worker

    17 vote(s)
    3.2%
  9. Gallic Warriors

    37 vote(s)
    6.9%
  10. Holkan

    10 vote(s)
    1.9%
  11. Hwacha

    26 vote(s)
    4.9%
  12. Impi

    5 vote(s)
    0.9%
  13. Jaguar

    53 vote(s)
    9.9%
  14. Janissary

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  15. Keshik

    7 vote(s)
    1.3%
  16. Musketeer

    35 vote(s)
    6.6%
  17. Navy Seal

    41 vote(s)
    7.7%
  18. Numidian Cavalry

    5 vote(s)
    0.9%
  19. Panzer

    20 vote(s)
    3.8%
  20. Phalanx

    6 vote(s)
    1.1%
  21. Quechua

    7 vote(s)
    1.3%
  22. Samurai

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  23. Skirmisher

    5 vote(s)
    0.9%
  24. War Chariot

    5 vote(s)
    0.9%
  25. Vulture

    7 vote(s)
    1.3%
  1. Refar

    Refar Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    4,608
    If i really rush i do it with axes (or with chariots if really has to be). A Swordsman rush is to slow and because of this often to expensive (Time to tech IW, Higher costs of Swordsman - not a issue with the cheaper Jags tho, More established enemy defenses.)
     
  2. InvisibleStalke

    InvisibleStalke Emperor

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,329
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand

    I like the carrack as it effectively means you get to control the islands -

    - You get first crack at any good islands.
    - You can carry a military unit when you explore so you can kill archers sitting on a hut. Maybe even pop Astronomy!
    - With a good fleet of them you can carry 2-3 settlers and dump them on a small minicontinent and then immediately make it a colony denying that land to the AI and getting access to the resources of that land without incurring the costs.
    - Later on your carracks continue to serve as incidental transports even into the late game. Handy for shipping your workers around your islands or sending an extra defender in.
    - You can even launch an attack with a fleet of carracks. Maybe not against the mainland but I've used them against island cities that the AI finds hard to reinforce and gives you a base for later wars.

    Not superpowerful, but a bit more interesting than many of the other units.
     
  3. Ermak-

    Ermak- Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    MINNEAPOLIS, MN
    CAMEL ARCHERS GET A ADDITIONAL 10% RETREAT BONUS> SO THEY ARE BETTER HEN KNIGHTS AT ATTACKING CITIES WITH STRONG DEFENDERS< ESPECIALLY IF U GIVE ADDITIONAL RETREAT UPGRADES@!
     
  4. [AR]Nestor

    [AR]Nestor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9
    To me, a UU should make things different, so you find their strength. To me, the worst unique unit is one where it is most difficult to find any way to leverage that ability. So am I missing something? I can't remember playing as the Celts, but it looks like the dun gives gorilla I anyway. With a UB like that, I think I am would build those pretty early, partially or totally negating my UU ability. That said I voted for the panzer. Just because I can’t ever remember seeing armor-on-armor combat. I don’t think the AI makes much armor. In my current game, I see a handful of AI marines, and not a single tank. But yes, I acknowledge the panzer may be vital for a MP game.

    And for all those “it comes too late to be a real impact” people, I would like to counter that with saying that Quechua are not a very good UU simply because it comes too early. Yes it is a substantial improvement on a very basic unit, but they still are very weak. And nothing from them promotes. I would say most of the time, it helps me kill barb archers, and that is about it. I am still waiting for something heavier to go to war with. So take that all you “I-have-to-win-the-game-in-100-turns-so-the-navy-seal-sucks-and-anyone-who-plays-the-game-out-to-a-massive-post-industrial-age-world-war-is-stupid” people.
     
  5. The Rook

    The Rook King

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    747
    I thoroughly disagree. Perhaps we could put our argument to the test in a good old fashioned punch-up. I'll throw all my punches at the begining of the fight, then you can throw all your punches after the fight has ended. ;)

    Seriously though, your reasoning runs contrary to the success that so many players have enjoyed with Quechuas. I can't think of a single game with the Incas where they weren't instrumental to my progress. If an enemy is near at the start, you can rush them, this is very viable even at the highest levels. You don't only yield a second capital, but also the space which the defeated AI lacked the time to settle. Not only does the Quechua have +100% against Archers, it comes with free Combat 1 too, add a Barracks and the Quechua becomes eligible for Cover, another +25% against Archers. So you have a unit that is stronger than a Spearman (against Archers), but less than half the hammers. The fact that you need several to break down a city hardly matters when your capital can build one every turn. If you see a worker connecting copper/horse in the target's BFC, just declare early, and nick it.

    Even if you don't rush anyone, the fact that the Quechua is resourceless is huge at the higher levels. Barbarians are an absolute pain, and their Archers arrive very early. If you don't have a neighbour too near, it is common to be involved in attrition style warfare with them for many hundreds of years. Without a resourceless UU you either need to:

    1. Fluke a strategic resource in the BFC.
    2. Find a strategic resource ASAP, then revolve your plan around obtaining the resource, even you need to settle a junk city.
    3. Research a dead end tech line like Archery, and even then you only have a unit that is the equal of a barb Archer.
    4. Build the Great Wall.

    I can't say I have had one game with HC where I wasn't grateful for the Quechua, but there have been plenty where I've played civs without an early UU, and I missed the Quechua's presence.
     
  6. GuitarHero

    GuitarHero Caligula II

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,486
    Those Keshiks are frigging useless. I once survived 10 of them with one Spearmen defending on Flood Plain. Genghis Khan offered Capitulation right after that.:lol:
     
  7. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    Sweden
    The quechua bad? :rolleyes:

    It's only the best UU in the game, if I have to choose. I can't think of any other unit that would let me win on a difficulty level I would normally have no bussiness beating, circumstances permitting. Or let me win from a horrible start location for that matter.
     
  8. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,226
    Location:
    London
    :lol: celtic gorillas, I'm wondering what my Irish and Scottish friends will think of that.

    The point you are missing is that the Dun doesn't give the free guerilla 1 promotion to melee troops. The gallic swordsman is therefore a special way to get swordsman and after upgrading macemen with the very useful guerilla 3 promotion. Only archery and gunpowder troops are affected by the Dun and it is obsoleted by Rifling. So only archers, longbows, Xbows, muskets and grenadiers can get the free promotion from the Dun.
     
  9. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    Sweden
    Yeah my first game with the Celts I got an awesome start and was ready to axe-rush a neighbour after building a dun when I discovered.. WHAT?! no guerilla promotion? :mad:
     
  10. [AR]Nestor

    [AR]Nestor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9
    The point I am trying to make (in a round about way) is that "it comes too late" is a game style argument, and not very valid. Yes, if I am playing a close packed game, I want an early UU to do some rushing. But if I am not going to see anyone for 2000 years, and not able to fight anyone for a few more 1000 years, the Quechua is not doing me any good. I have been stuck on earth18 civs for the last 4 games. BTS has made that map quite fun again, and I am pretty sure most people can agree that the Quechua is not a big asset on that map, whereas the navy seal can be huge.

    So I am not really trying to say that the Quechua is a bad UU, just countering kakitadairu's post (#51) about the navy seals. But I guess we are both saying that there are good UUs that are useless in some situations.


    And thanks UncleJJ, it looked too obvious to me, so I figured I was missing something.
     
  11. The Rook

    The Rook King

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    747
    I think I understand the point you are making, but imho you have chosen a bad example. As I elaborated in my previous post, the Quechua is one of a small handful of units that will make its presence felt in any kind of game. You might want an early UU to do some rushing, but if I have plenty of space, I am happy to have one that will assist my rexing. The Quechua is the perfect anti-barb unit, cheap and resourceless, and if you have a close neighbour, the rush is on too. In contrast, the Navy Seal is only likely to be useful if you are winning the game late, AND you have a position that would otherwise be lost if you didn't have the UU available. My hunch is that such scenarios would be extremely rare. If you won the game with your Navy Seal, you could probably win without it too in 99% of circumstances. The same cannot be said of the Quechua, as there tend not to be an abundance of military options at the start of the game.
     
  12. CivMcNut

    CivMcNut Having Fun At It

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    372
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I was sorely dissappointed in the Celtic Unique unit. I expected something better. Hills bonus is a defensive upgrade and swordsmen are an offensive unit. I hope the other BTS UUs aren't this bad. I love having a stack of highly upgraded Samurai/Praetorian/any other good unique unit to press your advantage and conquer some people during your hay day.
     
  13. troytheface

    troytheface Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,262
    Strange you should say that- i just tried Boudica and the Celtic UU and just pounced on Korea.
    Guerilla and Woodsman (Jaguar) are (for me) movement promotions.
     
  14. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Sweden
    The good thing about celtic warriors are that you can build them with only copper so you get them faster than most civs get swordsmen online and you rarely miss out on them. The guerilla promotion is of more circumstansial benefit.
     
  15. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,282
    The main thing about the Gaelic Warrior that is effective is when it built in a city with Barracks. Then, you give it Guerilla II. This gives it double movement in hills.

    Thus, when moving through hilly terrain, you get to the enemy twice as fast, and can defend on hills with an extra 30%.
     
  16. VexTheSane

    VexTheSane Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    I voted for War Chariot. NOT because of any inherent weakness, as they are strong and cheap as heck, but due to dumb luck on my part.

    I always go for Slavery, so I can mass chop out/whip chariots, and have always found copper nearby, if not in my first city's borders. So, the whole animal husbandry thing gets back burnered to support an axe rush.

    The game has always enjoyed being ironic with me, and there's no way that I'm the only one.

    "I think I'm going to play a diplomacy driven game. Let's meet the neighbors."
    Isabella, Monty, Genghis, Napoleon, and Julius. Well....crap. :rolleyes:

    I always thought the Gaelics were pretty "meh" until today. By the numbers they're nothing special, but Boudica lets you hit that G3 50% withdrawal FAST. In the early game its devastating.

    If the lady had Cyrus' traits she'd be an absolute beast.

    Oops. My bad.

    Sorry for the thread necromancy. Didn't really notice, as I'd entered it through a search.

    I be more careful next time. :lol:
     
  17. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    With decent starting worker techs, I dont find it as important to get to BW with Egypt unless I dont have a farm resource, and my only food is Fish or something. The Wheel allows for constant road building, even through forests, so I place my initial priority on AH, especially if I also have a Pasture food, which is common (Corn and Cows).

    I play Persia the same way, AH out of the box, especially if I have a farm or pasture resource. Getting those dirt-cheap yet extremely powerful units out there in numbers very quickly is pretty key to getting the most out of it.

    No worries, its still and ongoing topic that will be discussed for years to come.
     
  18. Ai Shizuka

    Ai Shizuka King

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    856
    Fast worker 11 votes and panzer 7? Good poll :lol:
     
  19. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    6,954
    Location:
    New York City
    Nonesense! There is always room to restart arguments!

    War Chariots are considered one of the strongest UUs I think. My problem with them is I always tend to play both Egyptians as Wonderspammers.
     
  20. Phil725

    Phil725 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Messages:
    141
    The fact that keshiks, quechas, dog soldiers and panzers all have roughly the same amount of votes leads me to believe that actually playing a game of CIV isn't a requirement to vote in this poll. Or maybe some people just assumed it was a best UU poll? I saw the one post earlier saying that keshiks were useless. I thought about typing out a huge rant on why I think they're #1, but I'll wait for a best UU poll.

    I voted for dogs. They may not be the worst, but I have played as SB a few times, and every time I would taken normal axes instead. I didn't read the hundred or so posts, but I'm sure the usefulness of being resourceless has been debated a few times.
     

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