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Worst wonder?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by itg, Jul 23, 2010.

?

What is the worst world wonder?

  1. Angkor Wat

    24 vote(s)
    4.6%
  2. Broadway

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  3. Chichen Itza

    179 vote(s)
    34.6%
  4. Cristo Redentor

    18 vote(s)
    3.5%
  5. Hollywood

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  6. Mausoleum of Maussollos

    9 vote(s)
    1.7%
  7. Notre Dame

    1 vote(s)
    0.2%
  8. Rock 'n' Roll

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  9. Shwedagon Paya

    25 vote(s)
    4.8%
  10. Stonehenge

    6 vote(s)
    1.2%
  11. The Colossus

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. The Eiffel Tower

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  13. The Hagia Sophia

    36 vote(s)
    6.9%
  14. The Hanging Gardens

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. The Parthenon

    1 vote(s)
    0.2%
  16. The Pentagon

    5 vote(s)
    1.0%
  17. The Space Elevator

    113 vote(s)
    21.8%
  18. The Spiral Minaret

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  19. The Statue of Zeus

    11 vote(s)
    2.1%
  20. The Taj Mahal

    7 vote(s)
    1.4%
  21. The Temple of Artemis

    10 vote(s)
    1.9%
  22. The Three Gorges Dam

    3 vote(s)
    0.6%
  23. University of Sankore

    4 vote(s)
    0.8%
  24. Versailles

    12 vote(s)
    2.3%
  25. The Internet

    44 vote(s)
    8.5%
  1. qyll

    qyll Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    344
    Space Elevator is quite terrible. Opportunity cost is way too high.

    Internet doesn't do anything for me in most games but I've also had games where it secured my victory.

    Hagia Sophia is pretty terrible as well.

    Cristo is indispensable if you're doing some late game warring and need to switch between universal suffrage for rush buying and police state for production/lowering war weariness.

    But I voted for Chichen Itza because it's just abysmal. All your cities get an extra defense bonus during an era when you should be peacemongering. Even if you ARE warring, that extra cultural defense only kicks in if you're on defensive, which you never want to be unless you're playing to some specific protective/defense strategy.
     
  2. kochman

    kochman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    10,818
    I disagree about CI, folks...
    It gives you a boost in your defense rating, which the AI, I believe takes into account when planning. Therefore, it can keep you at peace when you might otherwise have been bogged down in war.

    That being said, I rarely build it.
     
  3. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    22,268
    Location:
    Orlando
    Yeah, that's not realistic. At all. The war mechanics make it totally impractical to deter DoW with power unless you have an obscene lead.
     
  4. kochman

    kochman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    10,818
    For the top neighbors, maybe, but your immediate neighbors?
     
  5. Higher Game

    Higher Game National Socialist

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    1,076
    Location:
    GA, Amerikwa
    It's not going to deter the AI, at all. It helps you defend when they do attack (which might be the point, if you have GW/Imp or a sticky diplomatic position), but usually not as much as a dozen axemen. Actually, the axemen are a better deterrent too. :D

    The CI is mostly useful when you lack both engineering and horses, and you have a long frontier to defend. It might buy your SoD an extra turn. Lame, but not the worst wonder. Just close. :p
     
  6. kochman

    kochman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    10,818
    I am fairly certain you are wrong, but I could be wrong.

    Defense factor plays into ratings... including power.

    Example, AI Turkey in RFC Europe doesn't always attack COnstantinople's 200% defense... because it is a hard task.
    Does this not transfer to regular Civ4 BTS?
     
  7. madviking

    madviking north american scum

    Joined:
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    I think the effect on power of CI is less than if you used those shields to build knights or something. Knights are definitely more tangible.

    And when are you going to bank on defense to stop wars? :rolleyes:
     
  8. kochman

    kochman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    10,818
    Ummm... are you kidding with that question? A good defense (read power score) stops the AI from DoWing ALL THE TIME.

    Knights? If I have knights, I am certainly not building the CI!
    CI comes with CoL!
    Knights are 2 generations... beelined... from CoL!
    That is quite a difference in strategy in most of my games.
     
  9. JP1

    JP1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    The amount of power it takes to dissuade AIs from attacking you is unrealistically high in just about any game you're not running away with. I believe it takes double the power of the nastiest warmongers in the game to deter them, and with a military that big, you should have started attacking and steamrolling them a long time ago.
     
  10. Redlightning02

    Redlightning02 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    I can't believe anyone would vote the Internet, it's pulled me out of the fire in a few games. I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but you can also utilize it with espionage. Get a good amount of EPs on the tech leaders to the point that you can see their research, intentionally go for techs they don't have and aren't researching, and then get a good 5+ techs from the Internet. A ton of these are situational; Eiffel Tower and the "Hit _____"-giving wonders are great for cultural victories, Versailles if you're playing an Earth (or other huge) map. I'd have to say Chichen Itza is the worst; you rarely lose enough cities that it would've made a big difference.
     
  11. NihilZero

    NihilZero WHEOOHRNY

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,161
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    The Cristo is a great wonder. You may not like changing civics, but you should. It does depend on how long the game is likely to be, but if you have a strong Ironworks city then it only takes about six turns to build and its definitely worth it. By this stage you will probably have unlocked all the civics, and with the Cristo you can use them all.

    The Space Elevator is strictly for building when you have a couple of surplus engineers (quite common at this time in the game, I seem to pop them everywhere at the end of a space race) and you can shave one turn off your launch time by rushing it. If you can do it, why not? By the end of the game you wiill have finished the tech tree anyway and will be well into the Future Techs.

    For me the worst is either the Hagia Sophia (shame it's so bad in-game, it's one of my favourites in real life) or the Temple of Artemis. Sure, the ToA is nice for GPP, but you need to have a lot of leisure time to be building this at that point of the game. There are other much better wonders I'd rather be chasing.

    And I never, ever build the Colossus. I probably should occasionally.

    Chichen Itza obviously requires no comment, but I have built it for the sake of GPP if I was having a very easy game and one of my cities was at a loose end for something to build.
     
  12. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Melbourne, AUS Reputation:131^(9/2)
    Seriously? At the very least, early Free Religion can be a very handy boost if you lack religion. Also, you can ignore putting beakers down the Theology path.
     
  13. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    21,810
    Location:
    Liverpool, home of Everton FC
    Chicken Pizza gives Great Prophet points not Great Engineer points.
     
  14. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2,520
    Location:
    Grainvillage, Finland
    Well basically what I'm trying to say is that Next War kinda looks more realistic to me when it comes to space victory and all, which is weird.

    Indeed, SP had become a must have for me lately as I try to get free religion as fast as I can, so that I won't get involved in those pathetic religious squabbles (yeah like that helps).

    I have a question about the Internet. Will you get all the techs AI know? Like in my recent game I have Saladdin with fission, numerous AI with communism and some other AI's with medicine. Will I get them all?
     
  15. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

    Joined:
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    As long as a tech is known by 2 AIs you will get it.
     
  16. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

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    Location:
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    So if it's known only by one AI I won't get it? Great...
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    Jan 26, 2008
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    Location:
    Orlando
    If you can get 100-200% of their power and never get into any war with anybody, ever, sure.

    Of course AP or an event could still get you into war, where everyone considering you adds your opponent power to their own for the war check.

    It's just not a realistic approach on emp+ unless you are already running away.

    This is only true if you ALSO get robotics in trade.

    I ran a test game...My best city had a mere 58 base hammers. Another had ~40. A bunch of them had 30 ish (it's not hard to run 10 emancipation workshops or so in state property).

    After running straight space techs, upon finishing the last technology (ecology), it took 9 turns to finish the ship entirely. At 2000 beakers/turn (very reasonable on a standard map), I could have teched robotics in ~5-6 turns (nobody had it). There is no way in hell space elevator drops the last part from 9 turns to 4 turns. So even in this very lame production-starved empire (at least in terms of its top cities), the mere act of teching robotics would put me behind even if the space elevator were INSTANT and cost ZERO hammers. Even if I received the space elevator bonus simply by receiving robotics, it STILL would slow the space race down, not help by a turn. That's without GPP opportunity cost (why not try to spread out types and GA?) or even super hammer cities that would tip the comparison further.

    Space elevator's place in the tech tree in BTS KILLS it.
     
  18. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

    Joined:
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    You will when another AI gets the tech. The internet keeps working after you build it.
     
  19. Clam Spammer

    Clam Spammer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Quake City, NZ
    Tough pick between CI and SE, but I voted SE.

    I wonder where CI would stand if it gave you +25% defense that can't be bombarded away... (or equivalently, +25% city defense to all units that get defensive bonuses)
     
  20. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,940
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    Power score? You might want to check the values in the demographics article in the war academy.

    CI has a value of 8000, a single axeman has 6000.... :lol:
     

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