WOTM 13 First Spoiler

Gyathaar

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WOTM 13 First Spoiler



Reading Requirements:
  1. Must have reached at least 0 AD (or been defeated prior)
  2. Must have contact with all civilizations on the starting continent, and know the locations of their cultural boundaries.

Posting Restrictions
  1. Please do not post any details about any events or any land mass aside from the starting one. Discussions of "in a far away land" are fine.
 
I'm not sure how much I should discuss. So, I'll keep my comments general. First, I didn't get good city placements so it took a long time to get up-and-running. I wish I'd build Stonehenge. I like to have cities expand into the fat cross to allow cities better tile working. I didn't make effective use of the special building, either. Lessons learned. Still, there's not much doubt that I'll win some way. Sometimes you just get that feeling...
 
I downloaded the save right after it was released and played to exactly 500 AD in one session. I did not check to see what the settings were, so assumed that they were as indicated in the starting save thread. As such, I played under the assumption that aggressive AI and no goody huts where turned on. The former did not affect my game at all, and given that my starting warrior got eaten by a bear at about turn 10 (and that I was always going to build workboat first on this start), neither did the second. It did provide a bit of a “what’s that? Surprise!” moment when I later did indeed spot a hut, but will not have impacted my results in the least. For the record, I am writing this on Sunday the 16th, having played this session yesterday, and thus with my came currently on 500 AD, and will post it up at the time the first spoiler opens (at which point I will be more advanced in my game, given that I plan to play a session after finishing writing this.)

So, onto the game…

As soon as I saw the start location with the Ivory, and the nice food, combined with the expansive bonus, I decided that, if I had enough territory for an initial REX (which turned out to be the case), that I would forego the customary axe-rush, and instead put down 4 or so cities of my own, and feed my wonder addiction a bit before proceeding to introduce myself to my neighbors. The first point of hostilities would come when my cats and pachs would march through a neighbor, and the second conflict would feature the mighty conquistadors. So, that was the plan, how did reality work out?

As I imagine will be popular, I founded one the plains hill 1S of the start location, and began building a WB (using the 1F2H time to get it our asap). Set research to BW (through mining) with the idea of actually whipping a worker after the two workboats where at work. Sent the warrior exploring and he just made it to the general area of the Gold hill before being running into a hungry bear on turn 12. At least he had already scouted enough of that area to also see the stones, and I started dreaming of a pyramid powered specialist economy.

After the two WB, I injected a warrior (given that my first guy had died), and then whipped a worker, followed with two more warriors and then started on a settler for gold-stone city. I continued wheel and pottery after BW to get a granary up asap to drive the whip. Met the Arabs on turn 32, Russians on 42, Carthage on 51. Settler completed on 45 and went to found between the gold and stone.

I started researching agriculture and whipped a granary in Madrid as soon as available. After agriculture, I injected Masonry and Hunting to keep the 3 workers I now had busy improving things. Began another settler in 2170 BC, which I finished 5 turns later, and sent him towards the southern peninsula. By now I had scouted it and knew it contained:

-A copper city (with Fish and whale)
-A cow-Fish city on its northern shore.
-A clam-silk village in the south.

I proceeded to found all 3 of these, as well as one more city to the north-west of Madrid to grab silk and dye.

In the next phase, I managed to grab two wonders. I built the great wall in Madrid (for the TWO engineering points I expected to get. Forgot about the change in the patch. Had I realized it was only one, I would have skipped it. Barbs where not a big enough issue to warrant its construction), and the Pyramids!! in Gold-stone land in 790 BC.

Tech path went Archery, Writing (followed by putting a library up in Madrid to get scientist for the academy, and to allow for the G-library), Sailing, Alpha (traded for AH, Meditation, Priest.), Math (Iron in a trade, Iron in my land, but outside all fat crosses), construction in 325 BC. Cats and Pachs are going to say hello to someone really soon, and the lay of the land tells me that is Carthage. Research continued with CoL for the courthouses to pay for my soon to be expansive empire. . Sometime around now, Jewism spread to me, and I adopted it, spread it to a few cities, so that I could use organized religion for the courthouse building round.

In 505 BC, despite running two scientists, I popped a great engineer. I considered saving him for the great library, and perhaps should have, but running representation, the 3H and 6 Beakers from settling him, I figured, would get my rush going quite a bit quicker, so I plopped him down in MadridBy the time I was finished rexing and teching, and had the cats and pachs ready to go, Carthage had put up several nice cities… One on the NE of “MY” land mass, getting bananas, dyes, and a few other luxuries. Two on the cost on the west side of his Isthmus, which also had nice luxuries in them, and then one on the connecting isthmus, and two on the American land mass, including, obviously, the capital.

So, in 5AD, I declared war. I had two stacks. One of 2 cats and 2 pachs, which would take the nice banana city to the NE (two archers in defense) and then head up the Isthmus, and a second, of 3 cats, 3 pachs and 2 archers which would take the two eastern cities (total garrison = 1 sword, 1 spear, 1 axe, and 2 archers), and then head north. 3 more axes and 2 more pachs (and a couple of cats) being build now would arrive to join the northern push. The move was decisive and swift (well, as swift as you can be when elephants are involved):

5AD- border worker captured.
35- Captured Hippo
65- Captured Hadrumetum
110- Razed Thapsus (size one junk city which overlapped others)
185- Captured Kerkouane
185- Captures Leptis
245- Captured Utica
305- Captures Carthage

At this point, quite honestly, I was expecting the war to be over, Hannibal’s score to fall to zero, and to be told he was eliminated. That did not happen. Apparently, he must have another city somewhere. Perhaps it is inside US territory (I never got open borders with him, so still can only see a small fraction of it), or maybe he got off the continent somehow. I don’t know, and obviously don’t want to be searching for him while at war, so I rang him up to offer peace. I was blown away by his offer… He gave me Monarchy (which I don’t need), Horseback riding (which is on the path to my UU), and a few coins to spare his miserable existence. I was more than happy to accept.

During the war, met another civ (I wont mention which or where as it would be spoilerish). I also finally got a great scientist for an academy in Madrid. Moreover, I got both the G-library and Notre-Dame built in Madrid. Also, Saladin and Cathy decided to have a little war of their own, which suited me fine, since Cathy was starting to get annoyed that I would not GIVE her monopoly techs!)

I spent the rest of the time up to 500 AD consolidating this empire, building infrastructure and courthouse, and teching towards guilds. I currently hold 12 cities, am first in score, and doing decent on power and all other graphs. I am a dozen or so turns from my UU, and plan on using it to whip the Americans and possibly also Saladin from the world. I am presently building the forbidden palace in Carthage, on the current Spain-US border so that my economy can support the upcoming invasion.
 
I went ahead and founded in place, since founding on the plains hill 1S would results in only 1 more hill in contrast to more ocean and a desert. I started w/a work boat first, taking advantage of the grassland hill. My starting warrior was put to great use, exploring area to the west/south, which let me know that I had time to expand down there later w/ no competition. Barcelona was founded a little later than I normally do, but it had little maitenence and immediately had cow/rice to work. I built another worker before my 2nd settler, so that my infrastructure was more developed opposed to my normal straight out REX.

For my cities:
I misplaced Seville a little bit, as I was anticipating on civil service to let me farm around the corn. I'll need to farm over the silk to be able to do that, but that won't be much of a loss when the time comes. Cordoba naturally was with the cow and fish since it wouldn't have the corn, Salamanca gave up the horses but does have copper/fish/whale. Valencia has 2 crab and coast, and Murcia grabs the deer,corn,cow, and gold without venturing out into nothing-good land. Toledo skipped out on the fish b/c washington had it and I would have to found on iron, but has a nice spot with the iron, dye, and banana (and I popped copper). Finally, Santiago has 3 dye, rice, and farmable land once it overtakes cultural borders.

As for tech:
I had started out w/ usual BW path, especially since I had fishing already. Didn't grab religion, but Hannibal/Washington became Hindus and Cathy/Saladin became jews. After BW I got wheel/hunting/agriculture/animal/IW (not in that order), which filled up the tech tree all I needed. I didn't need archery as I was able to fogbust and got iron hooked up before any big problem (I could have lost Santiago to an archer who had 34.3% odds, but I won and that was only problem posed). I went for writing->alphabet, and was able to trade around to get mathematics/monarchy eventually. I then went currency->CoL->CS->Metal casting->Machinery->Philospophy->paper->education IIRC. Philosophy was popped and traded to get calendar and acouple other techs. Around here some Ai's made demands of me, but I just gave it to them and no harm was done. Saladin and Hannibal are pleased w/ me, while Cathy is Friendly. I've somewhat stopped trading with washington, as he's Cathy's worst enemy and he has nothing good.

View attachment 160863

Spoiler :
Played more and have a SS at 500
View attachment 160917
 
During the test game Izzy managed to Get all three early religions and spread it around and then continued the getting the remining religions. The world was a one big happy place. Got Philosophy from the Oracle... every thing was grand and then I started The Game :blush:

Settled on the plains hill and got started on the work boat. Learned budhism and then was heading for Hindu when we realized the worker do not know how to mine. So took a detour and came back to religion only to miss it by one turn. Well the diplomatic plan crumbled as Sal became Hindu and converted Cat. :eek: There goes the plan. So now stop religion chase hoping all other civs get their own religion for some serious animosity. It sort of work out well.

Started to expand. Built the gold and sea food city, copper and whale city, stone city on a plains hill and captured a game city to the south. This is when Izzy noticed that Hanny who claimed two great city sites to the north, was getting way ahead of the tech race and is not willing to trade. So Izzy :evil: was ready to claim the two Cities when around 200BC Cat Dowed :mad: with a single archer who got killed by a newly trained Axe. After holding back for a few turns to build some defenders, Izzy declare on Hanny and claim the two cities. A few turns later payed off Cat with some 40 plus gold for peace. In 275 AD Sally Dowed. Next turn sued for peace with Hanny for 300 plus gold and Went after Sally. At 500 AD we had claimed 3 of Sallies closest Cities and was playing a war of attrition. This was because izzy was very stubborn and refuse to go after some Wonders instead of building units.

The Spanish built the Oracle and learned MC for the Colossus. Built Colossus early for gold. Then built the GLib. The tech research was poor due to these wars bu was ahead of all by mid 7th century about the same time as sueing for Peace with Sal. By this time we met the other other finance guy in the game and the old emperor.

Once again the game has gone all over the place and I am not sure how to end it. May still go for the UN but the Stars are still a possibility. Last time I tried a UN victory ended up losing to Incan space ship as Napolian.

We have about 12 Cities and teching at about 70-90% due to tech trading. only have built 3 Courthouses and hoping to build the FP in Sal's old wine city. But one thing is for sure.... the race for the Liberalism is on between Hanny, Cat and Izzy.
 
Got off to a bit of a slow start as I was moving my research rate around to maximize gold early on and then forgot about it for about 20 turns when the rate was at 10%. Got Hinduism right off the bat and continued on to get confucianism by around 0 ad. haven't warred too much yet, mostly with barbs. I am going for a cultural win. Have met up with Hannibal and saladin and Catherine so far...I think I also saw the Americans lumbering around my territory. 3 cities so far.
 
I started 1S on the plains hill and built 2 Workboats then a Worker. I teched Mining -> BW -> Hunting -> AH and then realized no one had Hinduism yet. I founded it in 2260 BC. Yeah, not a lot of religion freaks in this game.

The #1 threat to my nation wasn't Cathy, Saladin, Hannibal or Washington - it was the freaking Bears outside Madrid that ate 2 Warriors and a Scout. If he could promote, he'd probably have Combat 3 and Blitz. I don't mind Barbarians, but I think the animals at the beginning of the game are stupid.

I founded Barcelona on the Silk at the mouth of the river to get the 2 Crabs and Gold. Silk on plains is a terrible tile to work, so I don't lose much by settling on it. Since it was the holy city, the borders popped easily to let me work the Gold. I founded Seville on the plains hill to grab the Cows and Stone, and Cordoba as a production site east of Barcelona by the Corn, Cows and Deer in the middle of all of the hills. A Barbarian city was poorly placed on the SE peninsula, so I razed it with 6 Archers so I could found 2 more cities and grab the Copper, Horses and the seafood.

With my peaceful 6 cities, I started on my wonders. The Oracle in Madrid got me Metal Casting, and let me get the Colossus there later. The Oracle gave me a Prophet that I burned on the Hindu Shrine in Barcelona. Cordoba used its production power and the Stone to get the Pyramids and The Hanging Gardens. Finally, Seville got the Great Library.

The AI's weren't sitting around either. Apparently, Saladin must have cut off Cathy or maybe he looked at her funny, because Russia declared war on Saladin in 490BC. Washington was Buddhist and Hannibal was Jewish, so Hannibal attacked America in 440 AD. That was nice for me because Hannibal had expanded into the jungle to my north and had a bunch of cities with a lot of tasty Calendar resources. If his army was in the north fighting America, then all the better... In 500 AD, I declared on Hannibal.
 
Hi! My game crashed in 1848AD. I got all autosaves. What shall I do: submit 1848 autosave (incomplete game) or continue to play form 1848AD autosave?
 
Hi! This was my first GOTM and my first time attempting monarch difficulty (I play prince).

I built the great wall and the pyramids, using the nearby stone. I also built the oracle. I founded judaism and confucianism. I was doing very well at first, but then I started getting greedy and founded too many cities and fell behind in technology, and never managed to catch up.

This was a learning experience for me. I need to be more careful in deciding my tech paths, to get my economy ready for expansion. Falling behind in techs on this difficulty level is very very bad. I remained competetive however, and was able to fight of several invasions. Finally, a HUGE invasion from Catherine laid waste to my pathetic cottage economy (I'm still learning about SE and not great at them yet), and while I eventually destroyed her pathetic invasion, my ravaged empire was in no place to compete with a certain mighty power in a far off land, and hung my head in shame and retired in 1800 or so.

:SAD:
 
OK, my first monarch, epic and/or gothm game, might be a bad sign!
My entire plan is either Defend and Culture, or use the no-economics-uber-spanish-treb/cannon strat some elite mofo posted elsewhere here.

I settle 1S, start with work boats.

Meet Catherine first, her scout was SE of me so I thought that was her terrain, didnt notice the penisula untill alot later (managed to settle it still, and take the Visigoths city there).

I made several city placement errors, got ravaged by barbarians, totally got chaught out by higher maint. costs than my still-noob-to-prince-skills were expecting, I'm scared of specalists, didnt explore much and dropped massivley behind in tech. I got a GProphet 1 turn after Theology was first discovered.

My only early sucesses were the Oracle and Colossus, missed the GL by several turns. My great people have been 1 engineer (hagia sophia, just for the culture) 2 Merchants (one nets 3150 gold in Moscow) and a couple of Prophets. Oh and 1 scientist who made the academy.

It wasnt untill 725AD that I realised my strategic location on the continent.

International Relations: Hannible declares war on washington in 365AD, I join in to aid relations. Washington becomes Hannibal's vassal in 1220AD.
In 1631 Saladin Declares war on Spain.
By 1649AD I have taken 2 Arabian citys, and gained a GG (I bribed catherine to assist), by my lack of tech (im ~5 turns off steel, but my citys are on ~100+ turns to build a grenadier due to excessiveslaver/epic speed) and lack of skill on monarch mean Saladin's still got twice my power demographic.

But City Raider trebs are awsome.
 
I am noticing that people are posting about news well past the usuall 500 AD break point, and to my surprised, as I just checked, there were no such rectriction in the original post... Is that an intentional change of proceedure, or an error?
 
Dunno, maybe were all noobs that havent played monarch befor so's were taking ages to get big enough to even make these posts?
 
Something strange and profound happened in this game. Something of such import as to lead me to question whether I might have been transported to a parallel universe (and if so, can I stay here?):

I played the game to 500AD and nothing significant went wrong

Settled on the hill and rapidly saw the gold. Told’ya so! – I was the one who predicted gold to the west (well OK it’s SW) in the pregame discussion ;) So I made settling a 2nd city by the gold a priority – prioritizing it even over the copper to the SE, which I was relatively late settling. Initial build order I think was workboat-workboat-warrior-worker-warrior settler. I was going for spacerace so focussed very early on on cottaging, and not on building many military units – which worked well since the AI’s seemed to be quite a fair way away.

Such was fortune that I even managed to accidentally settle next to the northern iron :lol: :lol: . Had a settler up around the dye while researching alphabet. Decided not to settle until I had iron working which I’d hopefully be able to trade for from an AI as soon as I had alphabet. Unfortunately noone was willing to give it to me, so I just settled Cordoba on what I judged to be the best spot anyway: W-SW of the bananas to give a couple of dyes and lots of food. 11 turns later after researching iron working the long way, I discovered I’d put the city in the ideal position for iron!

The map shows my situation in 500AD.



I’ve carefully settled along the fertile, high-commerce area along the coast and on a fairly brisk science pace I’m not far off civil service. Declared war on Hannibal because I need some expansion and he was occupying some of the land around the dyes, while Catherine declared war on me for some unknown reason and sent a couple of horse archers to Madrid – easily dispatched by my elephants who happened to be passing en route to Hannibal-land. The only cloud on the horizon is that I haven’t discovered any more fertile/rivered/high-commerce land nearby. And I’m worried the high proportion of water tiles in my borders will hurt late-game science by reducing the number of towns I can get, if I don’t find some suitable inland areas soon.
 
....., while Catherine declared war on me for some unknown reason and sent a couple of horse archers to Madrid – .....

Man what was her problem? She did the same in my game. At least she gave you some respect and sent a couple of Horse archers. In my case she send a lone archer. At mid game she is still annoyed at me and I feel that if she get her UU at a time I am weak, I will be toast. I do not want to take a war path to victory but I might have to.:mad:

PS. Congrats on the game play.
 
I had a lot of trouble with barbs in my game. It was as if raging barbs were checked. Luckily I had researched archery early.
 
Went for an early sword rush. At 20AD:
- Hanibal eliminated (kept all 4 cities)
- Washington confined to 2 small tundra cities and is Budhist friend (raised 1, kept 2 more, including Budhist Holy City/Capital)
- captured the first 2 of Saladin's cities (raised 1, kept 1).

View attachment 161462

My economy is tanking worse than usual though - losing about 25 gold per turn at 100% :gold: and currently 'researching' construction (60+ turns) - haven't even started on code of laws or currency yet. Relying on war gold to keep things going (having to capture a decent sized city every 6 turns or so to break even).

Now if only we were playing on Emperor the AI might have some decent techs to give me in exchange for peace... as it is the fun will probably end soon and I'll have to start building a 'proper' civilization for a while... (until catapults anyway :D).

View attachment 161464

Slightly behind Cathy in score, ahead in power:

View attachment 161463 View attachment 161466

97 units destroyed, 16 losses (mostly swords). Haven't built too much of anything else. :lol:

View attachment 161465

I'll probably continue to harrass and pillage Saladin for a while and see if I can take Mecca. After that I'll settle it down to get Code of Laws and Currency, and then see to Cathy (who has already slapped me twice :cool: ).

If this were an emperor game I'd also start worrying about Hannibal eventually showing up from the other continent with with destroyers and a transport full of artillery, but
- it's only Monarch
- I killed him already. :D

Judaism, Confucianism and Christianity were also all founded on the other continent, so there may have been some trouble over there. I guess we'll start to see some caravels soon though.
 
As soon as I saw the start location with the Ivory, and the nice food, combined with the expansive bonus, I decided that, if I had enough territory for an initial REX (which turned out to be the case), that I would forego the customary axe-rush, and instead put down 4 or so cities of my own, and feed my wonder addiction a bit before proceeding to introduce myself to my neighbors.

@Jastrow - nice start (and write up). This is what I now wish I did. :king:

Didn't really adapt to the fact that this game was only at Monarch, making an early rush less effective (since AI has fewer early cities and techs to plunder, and it is easier to keep up or pull ahead in an early economic race and attack later).

Shouldn't have any problems with a victory, but probably could have been much faster.
 
I jumped into this game quite late, as I have just solved a problem relative to 2.13 patch. No spare time to play test games, and having played only vanilla in the last couple of months, might have caused me to play a lot worse than I think I could.

I'm feeling kinda lazy to post a detailed spoiler so I'll resort to some copy/paste from earlier posts as some of my game highlights have been part of other players' games. :)
I started 1S on the plains hill and built 2 Workboats then a Worker.
<snippet>
I founded Barcelona on the Silk at the mouth of the river to get the 2 Crabs and Gold. Silk on plains is a terrible tile to work, so I don't lose much by settling on it.
<snippet>
The Oracle in Madrid got me Metal Casting, and let me get the Colossus there later.

Sadly, there's nothing much to add. I founded Buddhism and have the shrine. No other wonders, just 5 cities by 500AD - 1 next to copper, 1 next to horses, 1 close to stone/cows.

Hanni and Washington are also buddhist friends, while the hindu alliance is Sal and Cathy (but she's pleased with me!).

Techwise I have the lead - I have Engineering and Guilds is 2 turns away. No CS yet.

Madrid has a citadel but takes 8 turns to build a treb. :(
I declared (a holy) war on a already annoyed Sal in 380AD. He already had a dozen cities and instantly reached feudalism. :( He now has protective LB's in most of his cities. :( I decided to just pillage him for a while with xbows/eleps. I wonder if my upcoming vassalage/theocracy/stables/citadel trebs & conquistadores will be a match for Sal's LBs. I might as well consider backstabbing my weaker friends but this could close the door to a possible diplo win.:confused:

The good part is that I already met the guys living "in far away lands" and they're backwards.

Bottomline is that I think this game is still winnable but I won't get anywhere near a fast finish.

Anyway, I am happy just to be able to play Warlords again. :p
 
After losses in the last two XOTM, thought I would boost my sagging score rank with a shot a domination.

Settled on the plains hill, WB War WB (pause for worker at size 3), research mining, BW, hunt, AH to start.

Founded Barcelona turn 50 for gold, silk, crabs, corn.

Met Sal turn 35, Han turn 48, Wash turn 52, Catherine turn 94. Met overseas civs turns 148 and 150.

Founded Seville turn 72 for the west copper, plus silk, cow, incense.

Got slowed down more than expected by barbs.

By 50 AD, had 5 cities (see screenshot).

Launched war on Han in 230 AD ... by 515 has taken 4 of his cities and was marching on Carthage. Plan to put FP in NY eventually for a nice "double empire" (see second shot).

Seems under control, but can I win fast enough to score well?

dV
 

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