Okay, well, after the huge assortment of test games I ran for BIGBRO with ASYLUM as an AI faction, I have to say I am pretty darned pleased with Neumann as-is (I ran into him in one game where he had the insanely good fortune of starting in a Monsoon Jungle with several Mineral and Nutrient resources scattered around the ocean and land squares. Oh god, oh god, oh god, the horror. Infiltrating him bumped my research up a huge amount, though.)
I realized when I got home last night I was looking at BIGBRO in an entirely wrong way. I relooked at my source of inspiration for her,
1984 and made a larger note of how Oceania operated. I realize that giving all prototypes Non-Lethal Methods with the prereq meant that I didn't need a POLICE modifier for the flavor - especially since if I put armor on an Inf chassis probe team that means that team gets x2 Police Powers (something the AI never does, but I've been doing every time I play as Stewart.) I scrapped almost all of my original ideas for the mechanics, to that end, and I came up with the following datalinks.
Code:
#BLURB
^The downfall of the greatest industrialized nations of Earth can
be attributed to Earth society's backward notion that the only
thing worth protecting is something as vacuous and ephemeral as
"freedom." Planet's a harsher environment than Earth, and if we
cannot make the necessary sacrifices for our own well-being, then
we'll die much faster than Earth did, with worms burrowing down
our eyesockets to boot.
^
^ -- Warden Julia Stewart,
^ "The 'Planet' Question"
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Julia Stewart}
^BACKGROUND: {European Union, British Ambassador}
^AGENDA: {Security from all Threats}
^TECH: {Biogenetics, Planetary Networks}
#DATALINKS2
^+1 PROBE: {Well-funded secret police and spy network}
^+1 INDUSTRY: {Productivity monitored by government}
^+1 SUPPORT: {Heavily regulated infrastructure}
^FREE NON-LETHAL METHODS ability for prototypes (with prerequisite): {Government crackdowns become increasingly common}
25% reduced PROBE TEAM activity costs: {Extensive secret police activity}
^50% increased RESEARCH costs: {Government must approve and supervise all research activities}
^Gains technology from any three infiltrated factions: {Efficient spy network}
^Need HAB COMPLEX to exceed Base Size 5: {Larger populations difficult to regulate}
^{May not use Knowledge value in Social Engineering}
I'm toying with a faction that's forced, from the start, to manipulate all the other factions on planet around her for her own benefit until she's amassed enough of a fighting force to achieve a conquest victory. Her agenda is thought control.
I opted to give her Planetary Networks and Biogenetics as starting techs, rather than AdvMilAlg or Intellectual Integrity because it seemed to me she needed those two techs most at start - the recycling tanks help her expand more quickly early on, and the PlaNets gives her immediate access to Probe Teams, which she needs in order to start exploiting nearby factions for their tech advances. The SUPPORT and INDUSTRY are there to help her with her build-up, the PROBE is there to give her starting probe teams that extra bit of survivability and represent how closely-guarded her own systems are, and the 25% reduction of probe costs is there to help her handle the spy warfare more easily early on. The 50% increase of Research costs is much better than my previous attempts to regulate her research without screwing her over immediately from the outset.
With the current setup, I can hold my own decently well. However, games often turn into me trying to keep the peace between three different factions that are constantly at each others' throats (Good god, I started with Zakharov, Miriam, and Santiago all on the same continent. They all liked me, but each was engaged in a vendetta with the other two every three turns, it was a nightmare.)
In keeping with the Big Brother deal, I realized I didn't need to give her a penalty or aversion to Democracy simply because that kind of political system's more than easy enough to control and regulate secretly (sort of like how Lal's still the ruler of the Peacekeepers even after keeping Democracy for over three centuries).
Of note is the fact that when I start developing a stronger navy presence, complete with foil probe teams, I do insanely better than when I'm land-locked. I think it has something to do with the fact that the AI pretty much all have at least one port, and it's easier to slip a probe team through a port than through a land unit infested territory border.
-END NEW INFO-
Hey. I wouldn't be too afraid of giving a bit higher tech. I'd be more interested in whether it's overpowered by itself, or if it can combine with a much lower tech to get something else overpowered (or simply too early).
Yeah, I should be experimenting like a madman right now, shouldn't I?
I also like "Overseer," as it sounds less oppressive, as she won't admit it. Think about people like "Chairman" Mao/Yang and such... They're always in their own little world.
I think Overseer's got a more heavy-handed connotation than Warden does, but yeah, they're both good for the duplicitous devil. Oh god, do I want to use that or Pompous Fascist? Choices, choices... but yeah, I'm having loads of fun with the diplomacy and flavor text for this faction just because these kinds of people are all so funny in their own horrific ways.
Adv Mil Alg is pretty potent... I'd say it fits for punish sph/radar/power, but it's a big step to fusion (to pre-sent alg). Also, I'm rusty with faction bonuses... but can't you delete them sometimes? [edit: actually, opt comp goes to adv mil alg AND supercond, so really all you'd be gaining on the way to fusion is adv alg and not needing adapt doc/doc flex, latter of which i figure you get by then anyways.]
Yeah, I think for now I'm going to stick with some earlier techs now that I have a better idea of how I want BIGBRO to work. I'll break the X1/X2 mold with NETICS, most likely.
There's FREEFAC and the old FACILITY... I'm not sure, but I think FACILITY might give you the building without the tech needed. I think those can't be deleted, like Yang's perimeter defenses. That said, I've taken caretaker bases with FACILITY 3 and then found brightly written recycling tanks, as if they had built it despite having it and could be deleted. I'd have to look into it.
Intriguing. I'm going to mess with FREEFAC vs FACILITY with my NETICS file just to test that out. If this is true, it could have some positive ramifications for the rest of my project. Awesome.
I'd also like to point out that the Drones already go for Eudaimonia. Don't let that stop you, but yeah.
I knew I liked those guys. I won't let it stop me, of course, since these factions I'm making are meant to be played with the original seven, but it definitely makes sense for the Drones and Terrans to be friendly towards one another. I guess it helps that the Drones are industry machines while the Terrans are more into research.
This does remind me that I might be able to look through the different agendas and anti-ideologies to find out just exactly what kinds of niches I can fill in after this initial project is finished. Thanks, though, I would never have realized if you didn't prompt me to go searching through some of the SMAX files - looks like the cyborgs have, surprise surprise, Cybernetic as an agenda as well. Can't seem to find any Thought Control agendas, so BIGBRO's safe from redundancy for now.
From the posts in your thread and Kilkakon, I think you are getting the guidance. If you are interested in a better understanding of the game's systems, you should look at
The SMAC Academy. There are also a lot of strategy threads at the
SMAC/X - General/Help/Strategy forum at Civilization Gaming Network. And you might find other things of interest.
Thanks, I'll give that a shot when I can. I tell you what, I'm learning more about the uses of Supply Crawlers and armored probe units than I ever even dreamed of before this project, lol
StrikerX22, welcome to CivFanatics! (Petek prefers if the Welcome thread isn't cluttered by responses of this nature.) I'd suggest you go ahead and start a new thread and post, even if it is just your notes. I think Kilkakon and hambino would be interested and maybe we can save you some time and make the final product better.
Man, I am always interested. Go for it, Striker, if just so I can read what sorts of ideas you've got running around in your head. Can't be any worse than mine, right?
I don't follow. Maybe we can continue this conversation in a new thread to avoid hijacking hambino's thread.
This isn't really hijacking, and even if you do I don't mind. Order would be restored eventually every time I post up a new wall of text.
If it works, that is the key.
Truth.
Yeah, I am really happy with Neumann's mechanics right now. He's working about how I want him to.
I don't follow how you give the AI an emphasis on GROWTH (unless you mean his agenda is Eudaimonia).
You know the first ideology parameter following the line for bonuses and penalties? The format's [Category],[Choice],[Social Modifier]. I checked with the scenario editor in-game to make sure of this, as well. When you set the agenda for a leader, you are not bound to only the social modifiers present in the social engineering choice you choose.
What I did with Neumann was set his agenda to "Values, Knowledge, GROWTH." Growth is not a modifier in the Knowledge setting, but Democracy, Planned, and Eudaimonic all have positive growth modifiers (+6 if I'm not mistaken.) This means that (and I checked this over several games) he will MOST OFTEN go Democracy/Planned/Knowledge/Eudaimonic. Sometimes he will opt for a Free Market/Fundamentalist combination instead, in the early game, but I've never seen him use Police State or Green.
This is how diplomacy works. If Faction A has a particular social choice as its agenda, it will be friendly to other factions that have also chosen that particular social choice or the default choice in that line. All the aversion does is prevent Faction A from using that social choice. So if Neuman has KNOWLEDGE as the social agenda, then he will be okay with Big Brother choosing Thought Control as long as Big Brother also chooses knowledge.
Alright, it's good to know that tidbit about aversions vs agendas. I already headed that off at the pass by making it impossible for BIGBRO to choose Knowledge (just as well, the admonition text for Future Societies doesn't seem to be working anyway). Big Brother's agenda, though, is Thought Control, so she'll still hate Neumann, which is really all that's required for a factional dispute.
It would be a good idea to post the other two factions in this thread.
Yeah, and that way we can compare them to each other.
In line with the Big Brother theme, have you thought about "Sister" or "Mother." Maybe the starting tech could be a prerequisite to Intellectual Integrity (the tech prerequisite to non-lethal methods).
I thought about the first part a bit before coming back on here with that idea, but i concluded that the religious connotations are a bit too strong for the flavor I'm working for. Sorry. I did think about the prereq, but eventually realized that I'm going for a probe-heavy faction, and being friendly to the other factions while infiltrating them usually helps me get Intellectual Integrity fairly quickly anyway.
I think the idea of three future society factions is a good one.
Thanks for the support.
Their agenda is Eudaimonia?
Yep. Their anti-ideology is Green Economics - something Neumann as AI rarely chooses. Looks like he's got an ally in SMAX.
If you look in alpha?.txt, the social effects are listed there after the SE area so you can see what's going on.