WW2 Navies
- Thread starter Wyrmshadow
- Start date
Wyrmshadow
Deity
Balam-Agab
God King
Thats all I have to say.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
As an alternate to Wikipedia on battleship matters, Darkshadepedia. For all your gelatinous needs!
Yes. The last to be worked on was Kentucky, which was preserved for a while whilst there were various proposals for a missile ship conversion. Like the similar plans for Hawaii, nothing came from them. The hull was scrapped in 1958.
Although certain parts of her and Illinois lived on, in a way.
*wanders off whistling 'I Left My Heart in Sacramento (And a lot of things besides) *
I can't find it...As an alternate to Wikipedia on battleship matters, Darkshadepedia. For all your gelatinous needs!
Is it www.Darkshadepedia.org, www.Darkshadepedia.net or www.Darkshadepedia.com ?
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
It actually referred to oneself, in lieu of non-specialist websites. Effectively, I'd put London to a brick that their content is generalist, prone to error and beset by all the ills of the nature of the beast that is online encyclopediorama.
I don't have a URL since I was released from Russo-American Mercantile.
Effectively, I'd put London to a brick that their content is generalist, prone to error and beset by all the ills of the nature of the beast that is online encyclopediorama.I don't have a URL since I was released from Russo-American Mercantile.
Wyrmshadow
Deity
Is there an H class Battleship for Germany
The 2 "H"indenburg battleships.
What are your Hindenburg battleships based off?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Hindenburg WW1 Battlecruisers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_class_battleship_(1939)H-39 enlarged Bismarck?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_class_battleship_%281944%29
This H-44 is insane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Hindenburg WW1 Battlecruisers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_class_battleship_(1939)H-39 enlarged Bismarck?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_class_battleship_%281944%29
This H-44 is insane
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
And the sad fact is the Montanas were FULLY funded, but were cut in favor of carrier production. Sadly, a wise decision, but the Montanas were so damned beautiful and had a throw weight GREATER than the Yamato.
@Kumquat, can we say fantasy in the extreme?
Cheers, Thorgrimm 
Okay.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
H-39s. H-44s were a paper design never meant to be built, even if it could be.
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
You are quite correct, but even the H-39's were beyond a wartime Germany's capacity. So even they could be classified as 'fantasy'.
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
But here building started before ww2.
Adler
Adler
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
Adler is right: Two H39 keels were actualy laid down before WWII broke out- they are not mere fantastic ship plans, but construction had already been started.
H41 or 42 would have been probable as follow-ups to the H39. H44 would, however have been a mere design, non-feasible to be built.
H41 or 42 would have been probable as follow-ups to the H39. H44 would, however have been a mere design, non-feasible to be built.
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
No offense guys, but were they finished? No, they were not. Nor could they have been in a wartime Germany. They are as much a fantasy ship as the Montana's were. And the Montana's had a far greater chance of being completed than the H-39's ever could have been.
Why is that you say? Germany did NOT have the resources to complete them under wartime conditions, where as the FIVE Montana's were only scrapped because BB's were no longer the kings of the seas. Being de-throned by the Carrier.
Cheers, Thorgrimm
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
Non taken- and yes, they could have been finished had German production not switched to U-Boat production*. What's with the Montanas? We know US American production is far greater than any other State's- but this has never been disputed. What has been disputed was that the H39 was meant for production and was just a nice "design on paper" - which is not true. The Montanas, Super Yamatos, etc, had been ordered/laid down and would have been built in one form or another, had production decissions been different (which we are of course aware of not being the case).
Edit: Besides- The USA has never had to face "Wartime" conditions like i.e. Germany had to face, so a comparison beyond the fact that the USA had more resources and production capacity available is rather moot.
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*See conflict within German Admirality (namely Doenitz vs. Raeder); more an issue of military strategy rather than mere industrial matter.
Edit: Besides- The USA has never had to face "Wartime" conditions like i.e. Germany had to face, so a comparison beyond the fact that the USA had more resources and production capacity available is rather moot.
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*See conflict within German Admirality (namely Doenitz vs. Raeder); more an issue of military strategy rather than mere industrial matter.
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
If you mean we were never stupid enough to pick on somebody 10 times our own size you are quite correct.
So why bring that strawman argument into the debate?Fact, they were never completed.
Fact, they could NOT have been completed given Germany's resource avaliability.
Fact, Germany's industrial capacity could NOT produce all items required by the armed forces of Germany.
Fact, the only credible threat on the seas the Germans could have made was with U-Boats, so not producing the surface fleet and concentrating on the U-Boats was the best option available to them at the time given their resource and production capabilites.
Fact, even with slave labor Germany was critically short of manpower so HAD to concentrate its labor resources accordingly. The Surface fleet was not as high a priority as the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht.
So, you are still basing your entire debate on the word 'IF' pretty shaky grounds to be basing a debate on. Only propaganda and wishful thinking does that. Neither of which is useful in convincing others that your point of view for a historical debate is sound. Only demagogues believe points of view based on IF.
As for the 'nonsense' about the Montanas, (the H Class is just as nonsensical) is that they were a far superior design to those German designs, yet all we hear about is the 'superior' German design. Once again both German and American designs were, and still are, fantasy concepts. Historical Fantasy is the promotion of an idea that did not happen in the real world as if actually having occurred. And too often we hear non-sensical historical fantasies based on the word IF thrown around as if it had actually occurred. I am just setting the record strait.
Sorry to bust your bubble W.I.N.T.E.R. but the sad fact is that neither your German fantasies, or my American ones will ever be true, and to claim them as historically significant is not facing the facts.
Cheers, Thorgrimm
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
What bubble? :| I never claimed these to be historic units, just within possibility, at least from a technical standpoint. So the 'IF' Factor still applies ... somewhat at least
Of course you are right in the presented facts, yet similarly I'd find the word 'fantasy' a bit too- hmm- harsh- given how far these projects were actualy taken. Perhaps they should be considered as 'wishful' projects.
... somewhat at least Of course you are right in the presented facts, yet similarly I'd find the word 'fantasy' a bit too- hmm- harsh- given how far these projects were actualy taken. Perhaps they should be considered as 'wishful' projects.
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
What bubble? :| I never claimed these to be historic units, just within possibility, at least from a technical standpoint. So the 'IF' Factor still applies
Of course you are right in the presented facts, yet similarly I'd find the word 'fantasy' a bit too- hmm- harsh- given how far these projects were actualy taken. Perhaps they should be considered as 'wishful' projects.
Lol, yes you are correct maybe fantasy is a bit harsh and wishful thinking is a much better term.
Besides, as you pointed out I also have my own 'wishful' thoughts to.
Cheers, Thorgrimm 