WWII Europe: Small, Fast & Beautiful for IV - Discussion & Creation Diary

[Paasky]

Heads up, I've finally got back to modding this thing. I've edited the civics, completely redone all units & improvements on the map, removed the various factory buildings, renamed the factory into City Works, and added different sized factories as improvements. This way bombers can really destroy the production capacity of other nations with a prolonged bombing campaign. I'll also be adding a 3rd scenario: 1941, ie Operation Barbarossa.

Still todo are adjusting the python to some of the changes, adjusting building costs, and some playtesting. Note that the next version will be the last warlords version, after it's done I'll take another break until BTS comes around.


I am thinking of creating various mini-scenarios from the main mod. Any ideas would be welcome. For example, the various campaigns would do well: the Winter War would be first on the list Also, a Cold War scenario, much like Doomsday in HoI2: DD, with a GBR-USA-FRA alliance vs USSR.

 

[Ambreville]

I finally got around to trying your scenario. Pretty cool!

Indeed, small & beautiful... not so fast though! I think the game bogs down to some degree because of the number of cities and units.

I played the French. They come a bit strong as I was able to stop the May 1940 onslaught without much difficulty. There was also an ill-fated attack against Beyrouth via Turkey that went up in smoke.

There's an issue with gold accumulation. I had a negative gold output, but the total accumulated gold kept going up.

I also had both French tank types with moves of 1 and with the multiple attack promotion. Another promotion would be greatly welcome since these are slow/slower/slowest tanks.

I really like the other promotions to add anti-tank, AA, or mechanized features to units! And the weather effect, all tres cool!

Many Thanks!

 

[Paasky]

Yeah, I'm trying to work on the Fast aspect. In civ3 simply having a fairly small map did the trick, fat chance of that happening here

Was the gold something like -3483243874 per turn? That's a tell-tale sign of something in XML or python not adding up correctly.

The tank stuff are due to me basically copy-pasting everything several times, so there are a few bugs here & there left.

 

[Ambreville]

Yeah, I'm trying to work on the Fast aspect. In civ3 simply having a fairly small map did the trick, fat chance of that happening here

I asked Zebra 9 for some help with coding that enforces an artificial hard limit on the total number of units a CIV can build, based on the number of cities it controls. The reason why I went hunting for something like that is precisely to allow for simpler (perhaps faster-playing) games for my poor, overstressed, limited-memory computer! There's just one more piece missing to that coding (a unit counter that would appear on the upper left-hand corner of the game screen that Zebra said he'd work on). Look at the thread "Curbing Unit Proliferation" if you're interested.

AlazkanAssassin also included in his Napoleonic scenario a hard limit on the number of workers a CIV can possibly build (he made them "national units") -- well, you know -- you were on that thread not long ago! I like that, especially in some historical scenarios, to prevent CIVs from building massive armies of workers. The AI is often a cluprit here.

Was the gold something like -3483243874 per turn? That's a tell-tale sign of something in XML or python not adding up correctly.

No. The numbers looked normal and the effect was consistent every turn. Accumulted gold was around 1600 in June 1940, and was going up by +20 or +30 every turn, despite an output of about -40, -50 IIRC. Nothing major, but definitely "not quite right".

The tank stuff are due to me basically copy-pasting everything several times, so there are a few bugs here & there left.

Considering the amount of work you've put into this scenario (and the amount of stuff going on), I'm not surprised that some things got overlooked. I could just as easily go into WorldBuilder and replace the illogical "multiple-attack" promotions with a Pinch promotion, which would be more appropriate to the way the French used their tanks back then.

 

[Paasky]

Thing is I really like stuff to be buildable fast. Problem with that naturally is that it ends up in an, if you don't mind, assload of units

Therefore, I had an idea last night: triple production time for units, but give everyone retreats, ranging from 30%-60% to begin with, which can be raised by promotions up to 90%. I'd also raise the healing time, which could hopefully simulate the need to slow down offenses to recharge, especially as there's not a constant wave of new units pouring in.

 

[ottoman4u]

Thing is I really like stuff to be buildable fast. Problem with that naturally is that it ends up in an, if you don't mind, assload of units

Therefore, I had an idea last night: triple production time for units, but give everyone retreats, ranging from 30%-60% to begin with, which can be raised by promotions up to 90%. I'd also raise the healing time, which could hopefully simulate the need to slow down offenses to recharge, especially as there's not a constant wave of new units pouring in.

I like this idea. Excited to see it in action!

 

[ww2commander]

This would seem the sensible approach with modern scenarios.

I know it goes against the abstract principle of civ 4, but it always annoys me thinking that I hypothetically trained the 2nd Armoured Division and lost it all in one go on an assault

Unless the game deals with units at a battalion level or something smaller, I think withdrawal and recovery along with longer build times should sort out this problem to a certain extent.

Good luck with the idea and hope it works

 

[LaCiencia]

I tried the last version. Very nice playing so far.

I have played as Germany, I took Paris and I was a little disappointed that nothing happens, but then I saw vichy and I wondered if the event goes through Vichy, he and happened but... I hit the button to create the vassal and I was kicked out of warlords. I guess is part of debugging so far hence my report.

I like the way you have treated the AA- motorized and AT brigades, brilliant idea!

I didn't like that is plenty city improvement still to build, it's hard to produce a single unit, i.e. Hamburg needs 66 turns to build a battleship and 39 to build a submarine... in Berlin no better luck as it takes 19 turns to build a panzer. If this rate continues I will run out of units before I finish my french campaign.

Anther issue is the Germany starts with communism I was expecting rather totalitarism.

Benito Mussolini don't like me at all same as the rest of the guys supposedly at my side.

I played till august 1940 (I tried 1940 scenario) I took the benelux countries, Paris and Vichy, and my submarines sank several strong units from the Britts.

 

[Paasky]

Yeah the latest version has waay too long building times. They're actaully about the same now, but with the new factory improvements for example Frankfurt's production is almost 60, when it previously was about 20.


I think I'm almost ready to release the next version, I'll first play one game upto -43 or -44 to kill as many bugs as I can.

 

[Ambreville]

Yeah the latest version has waay too long building times. They're actaully about the same now, but with the new factory improvements for example Frankfurt's production is almost 60, when it previously was about 20.


I think I'm almost ready to release the next version, I'll first play one game upto -43 or -44 to kill as many bugs as I can.

I don't mind the long building times for naval units. They are supposed to take along time!

 

[Paasky]

Yes they are, but I doubt the entire population of Kiel would be building a battleship for 3 years

 

[Ambreville]

Yes they are, but I doubt the entire population of Kiel would be building a battleship for 3 years

Then again, if you took the entire population of Kiel and put them on the docks to build one battleship, most of these hapless people would fall off the docks into the water, provided all these people has any sort of skill to be able to contribute to building a battleship in the first place. Meanwhile, everything else in Kiel would fall apart, since everyone is at the docks, fighting over a spot to build one ship. They would eventually all starve to death, since no one deals with food distribution in Kiel (and so forth). Serves 'em right for acting so silly.

That's called the law of diminishing returns.

 

[Paasky]

Fair enough.

 

[Ambreville]

Would some of these buttons be of any use??

Click Here

 

[PinkPallin]

Heads up, I've finally got back to modding this thing. I've edited the civics, completely redone all units & improvements on the map, removed the various factory buildings, renamed the factory into City Works, and added different sized factories as improvements.

Well, it's some 20 days since you announced you were back on this wonderful mod. I'm looking forward to the release of the Beta 1.
Any Good News Everyone?

 

[Paasky]

Well... Should I make a good playable Beta now, or wait until BtS comes out?

 

[PinkPallin]

Should I make a good playable Beta now, or wait until BtS comes out?

I'm not that sure that everybody will switch to BtS immediately.
If it's not too much work, why not release the first Beta now? Or, at least, a 5th Alpha with the new additions you've already made.

 

[Paasky]

Yeah, save a few python modifications, it is very ready for the 5th alpha. I need to make a big change, which basically removes all default civ culture & let's me decide what plots each city controls, but that means manually adding every single plot into a database, basically that's about 60x60 = 3600 plots, at least. Then I'm ready for the Beta

 

[doompigeon]

This is an incredible scenario and I was hoping to see a beta version soon (or at least a 5th alpha)... any idea when to expect it?

 

[simonlov]

In the installation guide you only say how to install it on civ 3. But its not the smae folders in civ4. and btw where can I find all updates?