AndyTerry
Russian Bear
All right, i'll fix.
XX Century Mod 3
- Thread starter AndyTerry
- Start date
All right, i'll fix.
Camber
Resident Family Therapist
Great mod, and a lot of fun to play. A couple of suggestions:
In the tiny map, if a nation switches all of its civics (to make them historically accurate) on turn 1, their cities will get swallowed by the cultural boundaries of its neighbors before they get out of anarchy, and they'll have cultural rebellions going on before they even get a chance to play. I wonder if you could fix this by putting all nations in their historically proper civics from the start (as they are in the huge map)?
In both maps, Germany had some serious issues. On the tiny map it got smothered by England and Russia until it was just a sliver of a country. I wonder if the preset buildings that it is given might have something to do with it? It would be nice to have some better balance there. On the huge map, Germany was missing Berlin (!) and had Bonn as its capital. This causes Germany to "settle" Berlin (in the correct location, thank goodness), but the fledgling city doesn't have the infrastructure it should have. I found that adding Berlin, Vienna, and perhaps Konigsberg to Germany made it more competitive. Otherwise, they stay near the bottom of the civ list for a long long time (granted, I only played to 1910, but my comp was getting too slow so I had to quit).
I wonder if you might give the Swedish civ the cities that would have been in Norway? Otherwise you have someone else colonizing them, and it doesn't seem right. If this was decided for balance issues, then I will let it go.
On the tiny map, the lack of a Jewish holy city made for a strange scenario--Judaism was founded in Praetoria! If there is any way to add Jerusalem in there as a city, it would be nice. Same with the large map--I notice that Osama Bin Laden has Damascus in his list of cities (and Belfast, and Basra, etc.). If there is a script hidden in the mod (Easter Egg) that makes these cities appear later in the game, that would be wonderful. But barring that, I would say that Damascus/Jerusalem needs to be in the game. I would give it to the Turks, since they ended up colonizing the spot where Damascus should be anyway.
Also, when it comes to religion--what is the point of having Free religion if there are no mixed religious cities in the nations that historically had Freedom of Religion? I'm talking about New York, San Francisco, London, Paris, etc. It would be nice if the mixture of religious affiliations in these cities (and the Jewish presence in Europe) was represented.
I was shocked at the rate of Great Persons coming out of Russia on the tiny map. It seemed that they were getting one every 3-7 turns during the first 100 turns I played. This seemed incredibly high; I wonder if it might be possible to tone them down a bit (and then you might also avoid the culture smothering of Germany).
I'm also looking all over for a Standard map for the mod. Do you know if one has been made?
I only offer these suggestions because I love the mod--I had more fun playing it than I've had with a mod for a long time. Great work!
In the tiny map, if a nation switches all of its civics (to make them historically accurate) on turn 1, their cities will get swallowed by the cultural boundaries of its neighbors before they get out of anarchy, and they'll have cultural rebellions going on before they even get a chance to play. I wonder if you could fix this by putting all nations in their historically proper civics from the start (as they are in the huge map)?
In both maps, Germany had some serious issues. On the tiny map it got smothered by England and Russia until it was just a sliver of a country. I wonder if the preset buildings that it is given might have something to do with it? It would be nice to have some better balance there. On the huge map, Germany was missing Berlin (!) and had Bonn as its capital. This causes Germany to "settle" Berlin (in the correct location, thank goodness), but the fledgling city doesn't have the infrastructure it should have. I found that adding Berlin, Vienna, and perhaps Konigsberg to Germany made it more competitive. Otherwise, they stay near the bottom of the civ list for a long long time (granted, I only played to 1910, but my comp was getting too slow so I had to quit).
I wonder if you might give the Swedish civ the cities that would have been in Norway? Otherwise you have someone else colonizing them, and it doesn't seem right. If this was decided for balance issues, then I will let it go.
On the tiny map, the lack of a Jewish holy city made for a strange scenario--Judaism was founded in Praetoria! If there is any way to add Jerusalem in there as a city, it would be nice. Same with the large map--I notice that Osama Bin Laden has Damascus in his list of cities (and Belfast, and Basra, etc.). If there is a script hidden in the mod (Easter Egg) that makes these cities appear later in the game, that would be wonderful. But barring that, I would say that Damascus/Jerusalem needs to be in the game. I would give it to the Turks, since they ended up colonizing the spot where Damascus should be anyway.
Also, when it comes to religion--what is the point of having Free religion if there are no mixed religious cities in the nations that historically had Freedom of Religion? I'm talking about New York, San Francisco, London, Paris, etc. It would be nice if the mixture of religious affiliations in these cities (and the Jewish presence in Europe) was represented.
I was shocked at the rate of Great Persons coming out of Russia on the tiny map. It seemed that they were getting one every 3-7 turns during the first 100 turns I played. This seemed incredibly high; I wonder if it might be possible to tone them down a bit (and then you might also avoid the culture smothering of Germany).
I'm also looking all over for a Standard map for the mod. Do you know if one has been made?
I only offer these suggestions because I love the mod--I had more fun playing it than I've had with a mod for a long time. Great work!
Camber
Resident Family Therapist
I have to back away from my suggestion that Jerusalem be added to the tiny map. It wouldn't be necessary, there isn't enough room for it, and it would lead to too much imbalance (besides, there are not holy cities on the map for any other religion). If you were to add holy cities, you could do so for those that make sense, such as Fahd getting the Islamic holy city, etc.
On the balance issue with England-Germany-Russia, I was able to identify some of the causes of the cultural smothering. Looking at London, you find that it has been given all of the world and national wonders associated with its island, including 3 national wonders (which isn't supposed to be possible in the game), and a Temple, Cathedral, and Monastery. There is no way that Berlin would be able to keep up. On the Russian side, Moscow has the Kremlin gifted to it (even though it has not yet researched Communism), and Leningrad has the Hermitage (which is part of the cause of the cultural squeeze of Berlin). On the other hand, you'll notice that New York does not have Broadway or Wall Street or the Pentagon, so some of these placements are not necessarily consistent.
I would delete the Hermitage (because of the cultural squeeze it produces) and give Berlin some Jews and a Temple and Synogogue (this will eliminate the possibility of Judaism being founded elsewhere also). I would also add a Christian monastery to its Temple and Cathedral. I would also give Berlin a Military Academy and Ironworks, which should help with the balance, and perhaps take one of the 3 National Wonders away from London. To balance out the loss of the Hermitage for Leningrad, I would give both it and Moscow Judaism (for culture).
I've noted that Madrid, Mexico City, and Toronto (and others) all also get culturally squeezed, but this is to be expected. Berlin though I think should be able to stand up culturally to London and Moscow-Leningrad.
In my game, I put Coal under Berlin, Iron under London, and Iron under Washington. These three industrial powerhouse nations had major steel production regions, and having both coal and iron for them would make sense.
On the balance issue with England-Germany-Russia, I was able to identify some of the causes of the cultural smothering. Looking at London, you find that it has been given all of the world and national wonders associated with its island, including 3 national wonders (which isn't supposed to be possible in the game), and a Temple, Cathedral, and Monastery. There is no way that Berlin would be able to keep up. On the Russian side, Moscow has the Kremlin gifted to it (even though it has not yet researched Communism), and Leningrad has the Hermitage (which is part of the cause of the cultural squeeze of Berlin). On the other hand, you'll notice that New York does not have Broadway or Wall Street or the Pentagon, so some of these placements are not necessarily consistent.
I would delete the Hermitage (because of the cultural squeeze it produces) and give Berlin some Jews and a Temple and Synogogue (this will eliminate the possibility of Judaism being founded elsewhere also). I would also add a Christian monastery to its Temple and Cathedral. I would also give Berlin a Military Academy and Ironworks, which should help with the balance, and perhaps take one of the 3 National Wonders away from London. To balance out the loss of the Hermitage for Leningrad, I would give both it and Moscow Judaism (for culture).
I've noted that Madrid, Mexico City, and Toronto (and others) all also get culturally squeezed, but this is to be expected. Berlin though I think should be able to stand up culturally to London and Moscow-Leningrad.
In my game, I put Coal under Berlin, Iron under London, and Iron under Washington. These three industrial powerhouse nations had major steel production regions, and having both coal and iron for them would make sense.
Camber
Resident Family Therapist
I've gone ahead and started making a 1900 scenario with the huge map. As noted earlier, many things that would have been historical for that year are not represented on the regular huge map for the mod.
For example, Norway was under Swedish control at the time, so I would give them the Norwegian cities.
As noted, almost half of the German-speaking territory is missing/uncolonized in Europe. I'm adding Berlin, Konigsberg, Vienna, and Budapest (the last two as Austro-Hungarian holdings). This seems to put Germany closer to its expected position in the power balance, but not quite where they should be as the match for Russia, France, Italy, and UK (even with Ataturk's help).
As noted, Japanese, American and French overseas holdings were more extensive than represented on the map, and England also had more colonies in Africa. The Ottoman empire was also larger (Ataturk will get those), and Spain still had some additional overseas holdings.
I'm making Fahd a vassal of Ataturk rather than giving half of his cities to the Turks (Ottomans controlled all of the west coast and half of the east coast of the Arabian Penninsula).
I've tried making India, Australia, S. Africa, and Canada all vassals of the UK. In 1900 they were the most powerful empire on earth, and adding two or three of these vassals puts them ahead of Russia (where they should be), but adding all four makes them overpowered. I wonder if perhaps S. Africa and Australia were given more infrastructure than they should have had (when comparing their cities to European cities, they have more infrastructure than you would expect of fledgeling cities). I'll play around with some of the city improvements and see what works best.
Trying to decide whether to give Mexico a city where Honduras is located. They were a part of Mexico briefly during the 1800s, but were already independent (and part of a central american states confederation) by 1900. Without Tegucigalpa represented though, Panama City gets too much territory for the US. So I may go ahead and give Mexico that extra city.
For example, Norway was under Swedish control at the time, so I would give them the Norwegian cities.
As noted, almost half of the German-speaking territory is missing/uncolonized in Europe. I'm adding Berlin, Konigsberg, Vienna, and Budapest (the last two as Austro-Hungarian holdings). This seems to put Germany closer to its expected position in the power balance, but not quite where they should be as the match for Russia, France, Italy, and UK (even with Ataturk's help).
As noted, Japanese, American and French overseas holdings were more extensive than represented on the map, and England also had more colonies in Africa. The Ottoman empire was also larger (Ataturk will get those), and Spain still had some additional overseas holdings.
I'm making Fahd a vassal of Ataturk rather than giving half of his cities to the Turks (Ottomans controlled all of the west coast and half of the east coast of the Arabian Penninsula).
I've tried making India, Australia, S. Africa, and Canada all vassals of the UK. In 1900 they were the most powerful empire on earth, and adding two or three of these vassals puts them ahead of Russia (where they should be), but adding all four makes them overpowered. I wonder if perhaps S. Africa and Australia were given more infrastructure than they should have had (when comparing their cities to European cities, they have more infrastructure than you would expect of fledgeling cities). I'll play around with some of the city improvements and see what works best.
Trying to decide whether to give Mexico a city where Honduras is located. They were a part of Mexico briefly during the 1800s, but were already independent (and part of a central american states confederation) by 1900. Without Tegucigalpa represented though, Panama City gets too much territory for the US. So I may go ahead and give Mexico that extra city.
LordPiccolo
Chieftain
i like this mod. great job. but i've changed it a little bit and added some new leaders and civilizations.
My changes:
- Germany changed to Nazi-Germany (because of this Schröder and Kohl are now leaders of the Federal Republic of Germany)
- Changed pictures from Nasser, Atatürk and Krushchev
- Changed the name of Bush Jr. to George W. Bush (i think that the old name was silly)
My adds:
First of all i want to say that i am not able to create new units, because of this the new civs don't have unique units
- Added "Republic of China" (Leaders: Chiang Kai-Shek and Sun Yat-Sen)
- Added "German Democratic Republic" (Leaders: Walter Ulbricht and Erich Honecker)
- Added "Syrian Arab Republic" (Leader: Hafez al-Assad)
- Added "Libyan Arab Republic" (Leader: Muammar al-Gaddafi)
- Added "Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela" (Leader: Hugo Chavez)
- Added Salvador Allende as Leader of "Republic of Chile"
- Added Boris Yeltsin as Leader of "Russian Federation"
- Added Abdul Hamid II as Leader of "Turkey" (He was the leader during the beginning of the 20th century, so he could be the leader instead of ataturk for your scenario)
- Added national anthems and flags for the new civs and leaders
- Added and fited to this mod the "UN Modification 1.0"
Sorry for my english language.
I am gonna upload the changed files tonight
My changes:
- Germany changed to Nazi-Germany (because of this Schröder and Kohl are now leaders of the Federal Republic of Germany)
- Changed pictures from Nasser, Atatürk and Krushchev
- Changed the name of Bush Jr. to George W. Bush (i think that the old name was silly)
My adds:
First of all i want to say that i am not able to create new units, because of this the new civs don't have unique units
- Added "Republic of China" (Leaders: Chiang Kai-Shek and Sun Yat-Sen)
- Added "German Democratic Republic" (Leaders: Walter Ulbricht and Erich Honecker)
- Added "Syrian Arab Republic" (Leader: Hafez al-Assad)
- Added "Libyan Arab Republic" (Leader: Muammar al-Gaddafi)
- Added "Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela" (Leader: Hugo Chavez)
- Added Salvador Allende as Leader of "Republic of Chile"
- Added Boris Yeltsin as Leader of "Russian Federation"
- Added Abdul Hamid II as Leader of "Turkey" (He was the leader during the beginning of the 20th century, so he could be the leader instead of ataturk for your scenario)
- Added national anthems and flags for the new civs and leaders
- Added and fited to this mod the "UN Modification 1.0"
Sorry for my english language.
I am gonna upload the changed files tonight
AndyTerry
Russian Bear
Welcome to your enthusiasm
LordPiccolo
Chieftain
LordPiccolo
Chieftain
is it okay to cut and add civics? because i think some civics are nearly the same, if you see it through the view of ideology and some civics are old-fashioned for the 20th century.
cut:
Government: Despotism - Universal Suffrage (because i think its nearly the same as Multiparty System) - Police State
Legal: Barbarism - Vassalage
Labor: Tribalism - Slavery - Caste System
Economy: Decentralization - Mercantilism - Free Market
add:
Government: Constitutional Monarchy - Absolute Monarchy - Fascism - Socialism
Legal: Racism - Religion (like Sharia)
Labor: Forced Labor - Class System - Trade Union
Economy: Keynesian Economics - Co-determination - Isolation
namechange:
Investments Abroad to Free Market or Laissez-Faire
Hired Labor to Post-Fordism
These are only ideas, so i don't have an image of how this system works yet
cut:
Government: Despotism - Universal Suffrage (because i think its nearly the same as Multiparty System) - Police State
Legal: Barbarism - Vassalage
Labor: Tribalism - Slavery - Caste System
Economy: Decentralization - Mercantilism - Free Market
add:
Government: Constitutional Monarchy - Absolute Monarchy - Fascism - Socialism
Legal: Racism - Religion (like Sharia)
Labor: Forced Labor - Class System - Trade Union
Economy: Keynesian Economics - Co-determination - Isolation
namechange:
Investments Abroad to Free Market or Laissez-Faire
Hired Labor to Post-Fordism
These are only ideas, so i don't have an image of how this system works yet
LordPiccolo
Chieftain
I've just realized that i am not able to cut off the old civics like despotism or tribalism
i think there is a problem with the tech tree and because of this i am going to rebuild the tech tree
i think there is a problem with the tech tree and because of this i am going to rebuild the tech tree
Amazing looking mod, I hope I get the chance to play it.
I get a runtime error every time I try to load the mod. Other mods work fine. Any ideas why?
Maybe it's God telling me that I shouldn't have this because I will waste days if not weeks of my life playing it, but I hope not.
I get a runtime error every time I try to load the mod. Other mods work fine. Any ideas why?
Maybe it's God telling me that I shouldn't have this because I will waste days if not weeks of my life playing it, but I hope not.
NeverMind
Proud to be Russian
DVS420 said:
You need Warlords and patch 2.08 to run XXC3. And unpack it to [Civ4 path]\Warlords\Mods.
lamppost4
Holder of the Light
Great mod but I think it needs one of the Air force promotions mods.
DarthCycle
WWII Freako
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 290
Great mod, I just played a 12 hours binge, and I was impressed. The amount of work that has been done so far is impressive.
I played England on the huge map at monarch level. After improving the infrastructure on the home island, I colonize the scotish/irish islands then went for the non-populated norway area. Very early, I lost my colonies in the middle-east but managed to keep Hong Kong in Asia and one in east Africa (don't recall the name).
I was too focused on improving my cities and not building enough units and it cost me later in the game. Egypt declared war in Africa but I managed a defensive war. I had just finished conquering sweden when the juggernaut, the soviet union, declared war on me. I then see this wave of cavalry, t-34 and infantry going for my sweden+norway territories. Couple of turns later, when I had just finished conquering south-vietnam, the Chinese decides I'm easy picking there. Needless to say I lost everything. Nice. I do love it when the AI sees an opportunity and takes it.
My two mistakes:
- No oil. I had only one land-based oil ressource in the middle east. When I lost it, I had no choice but to go for plastic in order to build wells. This cost be big time because even though I had the tech edge, I was losing the edge in terms of army strength. Russia saw this and crushed me with their t-34.
- Defensive Pact. I will have to look into this more than I normally do. Soviet Union is a monster in this scenario. The NATO alliance has to be negociated asap by the player or else none of the countries, except USA, can't stand alone against the Soviet Union.
I played England on the huge map at monarch level. After improving the infrastructure on the home island, I colonize the scotish/irish islands then went for the non-populated norway area. Very early, I lost my colonies in the middle-east but managed to keep Hong Kong in Asia and one in east Africa (don't recall the name).
I was too focused on improving my cities and not building enough units and it cost me later in the game. Egypt declared war in Africa but I managed a defensive war. I had just finished conquering sweden when the juggernaut, the soviet union, declared war on me. I then see this wave of cavalry, t-34 and infantry going for my sweden+norway territories. Couple of turns later, when I had just finished conquering south-vietnam, the Chinese decides I'm easy picking there. Needless to say I lost everything. Nice. I do love it when the AI sees an opportunity and takes it.
My two mistakes:
- No oil. I had only one land-based oil ressource in the middle east. When I lost it, I had no choice but to go for plastic in order to build wells. This cost be big time because even though I had the tech edge, I was losing the edge in terms of army strength. Russia saw this and crushed me with their t-34.
- Defensive Pact. I will have to look into this more than I normally do. Soviet Union is a monster in this scenario. The NATO alliance has to be negociated asap by the player or else none of the countries, except USA, can't stand alone against the Soviet Union.
LordPiccolo
Chieftain
i agree
this mod need more scenarios, like cold war in europe, east asia and so on. and also it needs more detail on the civics, like in my post before described
lamppost4
Holder of the Light
This mod does need more scenarios but if anyone makes any, I think they should think of those with slow computers and make them smaller, at least on a standard map.
DarthCycle
WWII Freako
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 290
I have quite a few recommendations to make. Is there a new version in the making?
A short list:
- move the attack helicopter to a different tech. It's available too earlier
- the cost for rocketry and its predecessor (name?) is too low
- armor are so strong they become the only offensive unit. I would give them -25% when attacking a city. Armor should rule in open terrain, not in urban fighting
- give early submarine -95% when attacking enemy subs. There was no such thing as subs vs subs combat with first generation subs.
- If this is not done already (not too familiar with late tech), I would create some diversity in sub classes:
1st generation - standard sub with no capability for sub combat (-95%)
2st generation - two classes: stragegic (nuclear) sub which can carry missiles/icbm and has a penalty against other sub; attack sub (nuclear) which cannot carry missiles/icbm but doesn't have a penalty against other sub.
- Aircraft carrier should be moved to a new/different tech, like navy operations or something. Making them available with the flight tech is inacurrate and too early in the tech tree. Airplanes were around for 30+ before the first dedicated aircraft carrier came around.
Keep up the good work, this mod is awesome!
A short list:
- move the attack helicopter to a different tech. It's available too earlier
- the cost for rocketry and its predecessor (name?) is too low
- armor are so strong they become the only offensive unit. I would give them -25% when attacking a city. Armor should rule in open terrain, not in urban fighting
- give early submarine -95% when attacking enemy subs. There was no such thing as subs vs subs combat with first generation subs.
- If this is not done already (not too familiar with late tech), I would create some diversity in sub classes:
1st generation - standard sub with no capability for sub combat (-95%)
2st generation - two classes: stragegic (nuclear) sub which can carry missiles/icbm and has a penalty against other sub; attack sub (nuclear) which cannot carry missiles/icbm but doesn't have a penalty against other sub.
- Aircraft carrier should be moved to a new/different tech, like navy operations or something. Making them available with the flight tech is inacurrate and too early in the tech tree. Airplanes were around for 30+ before the first dedicated aircraft carrier came around.
Keep up the good work, this mod is awesome!
DarthCycle
WWII Freako
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 290
Other gameplay feedback:
In all my games so far, on the huge map, Australia becomes a powerhouse. This, in my opinion, is slightly unbalanced.
1) They start the scenario with a tech lead, any reason why? It should be the opposite, the should be slightly behind.
2) Reduce initial city size
Australia has a huge private land mass and a lot of available ressources to exploit. It takes them no time to grow into a powerhouse. In fact, they become as powerfull as the USA by 1908 in my games...
In all my games so far, on the huge map, Australia becomes a powerhouse. This, in my opinion, is slightly unbalanced.
1) They start the scenario with a tech lead, any reason why? It should be the opposite, the should be slightly behind.
2) Reduce initial city size
Australia has a huge private land mass and a lot of available ressources to exploit. It takes them no time to grow into a powerhouse. In fact, they become as powerfull as the USA by 1908 in my games...
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