Yes, you CAN access resources outside your city "cross"

[Big J Money]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the manual is incorrect in one place. It sates the following, "A city will get the benefits of an improved resource if that resource is within the city's 'city radius'. If not, the improved resource must be connected to the city by a 'transport network'."

My experience has been that many times an improved resource in a city radius (fat cross) still needs to be connected to the trade network (which was inconsistently labeled 'transport network', above) in order for the city to gain the bonus. I haven't been able to figure out why the few exceptions exist, but I'm still trying.

=$= Big J Money =$=

 

[Vizzini]

Vizzini seemed to indicate that you could have outside that shaded area. otherwise - what in the heck is he talking about?

I'm not quite sure how you can get that out of what I posted. Re-read the opening post and look at item #1 in the three that are listed.

 

[Mujadaddy]

A mostly-on-topic question: what about work boats? Do they also work for resouces within your borders but outside of any city's reach?

Yes...BUT... Workboats CANNOT enter ocean squares... ...I couldn't get ANY Oil in my last game AT ALL...

 

[snepp]

Yes...BUT... Workboats CANNOT enter ocean squares... ...I couldn't get ANY Oil in my last game AT ALL...

They can enter ocean squares IF said ocean square is within your cultural border.

 

[Ranos]

They can enter ocean squares IF said ocean square is within your cultural border.

The same goes for Galleys. If a tile is within your borders, it is treated as coastal. The borders won't expand beyond two tiles from the land though.

 

[hahntsak]

Yes, you CAN access resources outside your city "cross"

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Many are still playing while following the rules of previous Civ versions and this needs to stop. The one item I keep seeing crop up in many threads is city placement in relation to resources.

Many still believe that a resource must be within the "fat cross" of the city for you to access and use that resource and this is not true in CivIV.

1. So long as the resource falls within the cultural borders of your realm...
2. Is connected to Capital via the Trade Network (Coast, River, Road or Rail)...
3. And you build the proper improvement on the tile (Mine, Farm etc) ...

... Then you do gain access to it and gain full benefit from the resource. Think of your cultural border in Civ III terms as an ever expanding zone of "colonies". Any resource that falls within that border is yours - all you have to do is connect to it and build your improvement on it.

Just thought I'd put this in its own thread so I wouldn't have to keep correcting misconceptions in other threads... which I'll probably keep doing anyway. Spread the word!
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Inconceivable!


I'm not quite sure how you can get that out of what I posted. Re-read the opening post and look at item #1 in the three that are listed.

first off the shaded borders is what most assume you can use. occasionally this forms a fat cross. what's the difference? that fat cross is your border, when it isn't - it ain't your border. what confusion are you referring to?

it says that in the manual. what's your point?

 

[snepp]

first off the shaded borders is what most assume you can use. occasionally this forms a fat cross. what's the difference? that fat cross is your border, when it isn't - it ain't your border. what confusion are you referring to?

it says that in the manual. what's your point?

A "fat cross" is a city's workable set of tiles, this isn't something that occasionally forms, it always forms (assuming it's not restricted by another civ's border). What the op is saying is that many people believe that a resource MUST reside within a city's fat cross (thus a workable tile) in order for that resource to be available.

 

[hahntsak]

A "fat cross" is a city's workable set of tiles, this isn't something that occasionally forms, it always forms (assuming it's not restricted by another civ's border). What the op is saying is that many people believe that a resource MUST reside within a city's fat cross (thus a workable tile) in order for that resource to be available.

aren't all tiles in your borders workable - by your workers? I'd never heard of 'fat cross' business before.

 

[Ranos]

The "fat cross" is the 21 squares that can be used by a city (including the city tile). Everything outside of those 21 tiles is just in your border. Many people apparently thought that you could only use the resources within those 21 tiles instead of being able to use the resource no matter where it was within your borders.

 

[hahntsak]

The "fat cross" is the 21 squares that can be used by a city (including the city tile). Everything outside of those 21 tiles is just in your border. Many people apparently thought that you could only use the resources within those 21 tiles instead of being able to use the resource no matter where it was within your borders.

so you don't have to have workers develope the one's inside this fat circle? I seriously never heard of it before.

the way I understood it was:
a)in your borders
B) road or stream to a network city
and c)any needed improvement

it says that in the manual, how can anyone make a mistake?

 

[Vizzini]

What Ranos said.

The point is there are some folks in other threads commenting about how they wander around with their first settler looking for good resources to plunk their first city down on because they think that getting those resources into the 21 city tiles is somehow mandatory. We're talking 2, 3 even four turns before they start their first city - which is just downright self-destructive.

Here's a perfect example of the "fat cross" if you haven't heard the term before:

(From brokguitar's City placement guid in the Single Player Articles section)

The blue border is the initial 9 square workable tile area surrounding your city. The green border is the "fat cross" of 21 workable tiles.

There are folks who don't realize that tiles outside that green border can also be worked - assuming those tiles outside the fat cross still reside within your realms cultural borders.

Make sense now as to why I posted it?

 

[hahntsak]

What Ranos said.

The point is there are some folks in other threads commenting about how they wander around with their first settler looking for good resources to plunk their first city down on because they think that getting those resources into the 21 city tiles is somehow mandatory. We're talking 2, 3 even four turns before they start their first city - which is just downright self-destructive.

Here's a perfect example of the "fat cross" if you haven't heard the term before:

(From brokguitar's City placement guid in the Single Player Articles section)

The blue border is the initial 9 square workable tile area surrounding your city. The green border is the "fat cross" of 21 workable tiles.

There are folks who don't realize that tiles outside that green border can also be worked - assuming those tiles outside the fat cross still reside within your realms cultural borders.

Make sense now as to why I posted it?

I seriously never considered this. it either was in my territory or not.

 

[Arkalius]

There are folks who don't realize that tiles outside that green border can also be worked - assuming those tiles outside the fat cross still reside within your realms cultural borders.

Well... a tile has to be within the city's "fat cross" area to be worked, but special resources can be used so long as they are within your cultural borders, regardless of whether or not they're in your city's workable radius. I'm sure this is probably what you meant, but I thought I'd clarify.

The bottom line is this... three things are needed for your civ to take advantage of a resource. 1) It needs to have the appropriate tile improvement on it (ie farm for wheat or corn, pasture for cows or horses etc). 2) It must be connected to a trade network. Only cities on the same network will be able to use it. 3) It must be within your cultural borders. If it's not in your borders in the first place you won't be able to build the improvement needed anyway of course...

 

[gmaharriet]

I think the confusion arises from the city's citizens only being able to work the tiles within the "fat cross". The workers can develop tiles farther out and give access to a resource such as horses or iron, but the citizens cannot work the tiles for gold, hammers or food.

Big difference between workers and citizens!!!

 

[hahntsak]

Well... a tile has to be within the city's "fat cross" area to be worked, but special resources can be used so long as they are within your cultural borders, regardless of whether or not they're in your city's workable radius. I'm sure this is probably what you meant, but I thought I'd clarify.

The bottom line is this... three things are needed for your civ to take advantage of a resource. 1) It needs to have the appropriate tile improvement on it (ie farm for wheat or corn, pasture for cows or horses etc). 2) It must be connected to a trade network. Only cities on the same network will be able to use it. 3) It must be within your cultural borders. If it's not in your borders in the first place you won't be able to build the improvement needed anyway of course...

let's clarify [in the fat cross] worked by whom? citizens or workers? if a worker works on anything in your territory you get it. what if somethin is in your territory but not in any 'fat cross' of any of your cities?

 

[snepp]

let's clarify [in the fat cross] worked by whom? citizens or workers? if a worker works on anything in your territory you get it. what if somethin is in your territory but not in any 'fat cross' of any of your cities?

For starters, forget about citizens, they do nothing but add confusion to the subject, as they have nothing to do with resource availability. Pic time...

The green grassland area is the city's fat cross, the tiles that the city can work.
The uranium on the plains tiles can be improved by workers, thus supplying the city with uranium, even though they're outside the city's workable area.
The oil on the ice cannot be improved by workers and will not be an available resource until either the cultural borders expand, or a new city is placed.

 

[Arkalius]

let's clarify [in the fat cross] worked by whom? citizens or workers? if a worker works on anything in your territory you get it. what if somethin is in your territory but not in any 'fat cross' of any of your cities?

Workers don't "work" tiles, they improve them. Citizens work tiles... I guess it's kind of confusing.

 

[Tactician Zhao]

the confusion is coming from semantics used in this thread.. I have never heard of anyone thinking you cannot gain access to resources inside your cultural borders.. you could get them inside your borders in Civ 3 just fine (without a colony, colonies were for OUTSIDE your cultural borders, FYI)

citizens can only work tiles in the fat cross.. workers can improve tiles anywhere in your cultural borders, and build roads even outside it

citizen working tile = gaining food, hammers, and/or trade yielded from the tiles within the fat cross

worker improving = building tile improvements inside your cultural borders, whether or not said tile is inside the fat cross

and of course you can get the resources inside your cultural borders but outside your tiles.. if they had changed this since civ 3 a lot of people would be upset, as it would make accessing resources seem strange and awkward

 

[hahntsak]

the confusion is coming from semantics used in this thread.. I have never heard of anyone thinking you cannot gain access to resources inside your cultural borders.. you could get them inside your borders in Civ 3 just fine (without a colony, colonies were for OUTSIDE your cultural borders, FYI)

citizens can only work tiles in the fat cross.. workers can improve tiles anywhere in your cultural borders, and build roads even outside it

citizen working tile = gaining food, hammers, and/or trade yielded from the tiles within the fat cross

worker improving = building tile improvements inside your cultural borders, whether or not said tile is inside the fat cross

and of course you can get the resources inside your cultural borders but outside your tiles.. if they had changed this since civ 3 a lot of people would be upset, as it would make accessing resources seem strange and awkward

this working (by a city) you refer to - is this the working a cottage working requirement thing to become a hamlet? can't a worker also work a cottage? can a city work a farm?

it's real confusing to me because, I've never seen anything worked or improved unless a worker did it. did I miss something. again, I'm not an expert. could someone please explain this to me?

 

[Arkalius]

Ok... A tile is being "worked" when a citizen from the town is assigned to the tile. That means that in the city info screen, the tile must have a white circle around it. If this is the case, the tile is being worked. If it is not, the tile is not being worked. This means that only tiles within the 21 square "fat cross" of a city can be worked. Citizens working tiles give you a direct benefit of food, hammers, and/or gold depending on the tile being worked.

Worker units have the ability to improve tiles. They can build roads anywhere, and they can build various improvements on the terrain depending on what the terrain is and what technologies you've discovered. A worker does it's job and then it's done. No direct benefit is gained from what the worker does in terms of food/hammers/gold except in the case of chopping down a forest which can give a one-time hammer bonus to a city. Just about everything workers do is designed to increase the output of the tile when citizens in a city "work" the tile as described above.

It's semantically incorrect to say that a worker is "working" a tile because it can be easily confused with what citizens do. Workers improve tiles, and that's it.